So who was it doing 112mph on A30 this afternoon?

[MattBW]

The 1991 M4 crash was horrendous, with the direct cause being a driver falling asleep at the wheel followed by many drivers behind all driving far to fast for the conditions.

Similar situation here and technically within the speed limits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_M42_motorway_crash

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/CARN...HURT+IN+INFERNO+AS+100+VEHICLES...-a061109264

 

[Digger]

Strange when you think your driving skills make you safe when reality is the other driver or unknown and unforeseen variable may be the real danger. At least if within speed limit I may have time to react and respond especially if I have some acceleration available.

 

[T6 CFO]

I don't believe I was advocating breaking the speed limit. Actually to the contrary and having power in reserve or braking for that matter is good. That's what I was trying to bring into the discussion on speed. My example of being able to increase speed iis that on occasions you are better to accelerate past a vehicle confidently rather than being caught alongside. As for worrying about other drivers, yes it's called being aware and defensive not aggressive driving.
I hope that when I make a mistake which I do frequently the drivers in my vicinity are also aware.
Why we have to look for an an argument on this board is beyond me when the only desire was to open up the discussion.


Mike

 

[GrannyJen]

I agree with everything that Mike, and a few others, have said.

This thread started out as a bit of fun, an opportunity for a bit of banter, and has run close, again, to descending into "I'm right, your wrong" type arguments. We all have our views on speed, my driving is not that perfect enough for me to sit in judgement on others, can we just respect each other's view and get back to making this thread an enjoyable read.

Thank you.

 

[sidepod]

Being out on the open road always carries an element of danger and all you can do is reduce the odds.
We all know speed is one of the main elements as is being amongst the heavies in the slow lane on occasions or alongside a long vehicle, particularly a leftie.
It is mainly for this reason I like a bit of power in reserve.
Rule 1 - Avoid head on
Rule 2 - Never hit a big tree.
Rule 3 or perhaps Rule 1 - Stay lucky.

As for 112mph on the A30.
Not a good plan especially if it is a single carriageway as more chance of breaching rule 1.
Motorway and dual carriageway accidents where sudden obstructions are not encountered tend to be very spectacular but survivable.



Mike

Rule 4. Never ever ever ever overtake at a junction.

Rule 5. Never put three vehicles abreast even if you think there is space.

 

[Loz]

RE: Rule 4.
Friday evening on our way to Elan Valley I was overtaken by a car who came from 1 car behind as we approached a junction on a long straight unlit main country road, a car pulled out from the junction on the right towards us just as the overtaker was passing the car behind us. He didnt see it as the emerging car was side on until it had complete its turn. Fortunately from our elevated position I saw this developing and put my LED headlights on full and fully lit the emerging car at which point the overtaker saw it and swerved in front and just missed the emerging car.

It was a dangerous overtake and also the emerging car did not consider or see the overtaker.

Had I not left a decent gap between us and the car in front (was using ACC with the medium range) , there would not have been any room for him to miss the other car and I suspect there would have been a 4 car incident right then.

You can't control others driving but you can give yourself more options with a bit more space etc..

EDIT: I was going to share the dash cam footage of the event with you all but by the time I looked for it this morning it had been overwritten and only went back to an hour after that event.. so I have just doubled the memory card in the dash cam.

 

[MattBW]

That has reminded me of an experience...

I remember overtaking a dawdling car on a country lane once many years ago. I recall checking the mirror, seeing a headlight in the far distance and doing a life saver (retained habit from my bike days) pulling out. A few seconds later as I was passing, I saw the bike grow in my mirror approaching at serious speed, I can't even begin to judge but at least double my 60-65mph. Rather than slowing (maybe couldn't) they proceeded to pass me on the outside as I was passing the car. How he didn't clip the verge and come off I don't know.

I then saw him/her overtake up ahead by a junction.

 

[T6 CFO]

A good thread to perhaps give some examples of how to reduce the risk and highlight things that some people do that increase it.

I'll kick it off with a motorway scenario.

I suspect some people with the best of intentions believe they should be in the left hand lane at all times. My best ever example was on the M6 heading South. As we all know this can get pretty busy with a lot of heavies on it. On this day I was sat in the middle lane with cruise control set at about 75 which kept me out of the way of the heavies. Car in front was doing similar speed but he insisted on moving into the slower left lane at every possible opportunity. He would then have to move back to the middle lane and even into the outside lane as he failed to anticipate the traffic ahead. On occasions he would go left lane, middle lane right lane and back again.
At all times he was correctly indicating prior to the manoeuvre and no doubt thought he was a splendid driver.
I was so fascinated that I got competitive about it and was quite able to stay behind him remaining in the middle lane as he performed over 200 lane switches before I did my first which was to pull into the services for a coffee break.
Extreme I know but fairly common. My good wife was relieved he carried on as I would have found it difficult to avoid a polite conversation on the subject.




Mike

 

[GrannyJen]

A good thread to perhaps give some examples of how to reduce the risk and highlight things that some people do that increase it.

I'll kick it off with a motorway scenario.

I suspect some people with the best of intentions believe they should be in the left hand lane at all times. My best ever example was on the M6 heading South. As we all know this can get pretty busy with a lot of heavies on it. On this day I was sat in the middle lane with cruise control set at about 75 which kept me out of the way of the heavies. Car in front was doing similar speed but he insisted on moving into the slower left lane at every possible opportunity. He would then have to move back to the middle lane and even into the outside lane as he failed to anticipate the traffic ahead. On occasions he would go left lane, middle lane right lane and back again.
At all times he was correctly indicating prior to the manoeuvre and no doubt thought he was a splendid driver.
I was so fascinated that I got competitive about it and was quite able to stay behind him remaining in the middle lane as he performed over 200 lane switches before I did my first which was to pull into the services for a coffee break.
Extreme I know but fairly common. My good wife was relieved he carried on as I would have found it difficult to avoid a polite conversation on the subject.




Mike

Oh I hate all that weaving in and out, slow lane .... nose up to a lorry.... pull out.... swerve in.... repeat 100 times!

That's why I just stay in the outside lane Avoids getting caught up in all of that

 

[VW Cali]

A good thread to perhaps give some examples of how to reduce the risk and highlight things that some people do that increase it.

I'll kick it off with a motorway scenario.

I suspect some people with the best of intentions believe they should be in the left hand lane at all times. My best ever example was on the M6 heading South. As we all know this can get pretty busy with a lot of heavies on it. On this day I was sat in the middle lane with cruise control set at about 75 which kept me out of the way of the heavies. Car in front was doing similar speed but he insisted on moving into the slower left lane at every possible opportunity. He would then have to move back to the middle lane and even into the outside lane as he failed to anticipate the traffic ahead. On occasions he would go left lane, middle lane right lane and back again.
At all times he was correctly indicating prior to the manoeuvre and no doubt thought he was a splendid driver.




Mike

Genuine questions rather than an opinion or preference:

1. I have often heard on media complaints about drivers who hog the middle lane. Why is that?

2. Is the other driver's driving style the textbook recommended one. Stay in slowest lane, and then switch as needed....

Now, I always drive in outside lane finding it the safest with usually the most alert drivers, with the occassonal idiotic tail gater. Anyone faster than me, and sometimes there is a group of cars, I am to let overtake by moving to middle lane. But then I go back to outside lane.

I have found with Cali I have started using middle lane more than outside for obvious reasons. But one often runs into people doing 60 mph for no good reason, or as well people whose mind seems not to be on driving.

 

[Loz]

Genuine questions rather than an opinion or preference:

1. I have often heard on media complaints about drivers who hog the middle lane. Why is that?

2. Is the other driver's driving style the textbook recommended one. Stay in slowest lane, and then switch as needed....

Now, I always drive in outside lane finding it the safest with usually the most alert drivers, with the occassonal idiotic tail gater. Anyone faster than me, and sometimes there is a group of cars, I am to let overtake by moving to middle lane. But then I go back to outside lane.

I have found with Cali I have started using middle lane more than outside for obvious reasons. But one often runs into people doing 60 mph for no good reason, or as well people whose mind seems not to be on driving.

I think you have to adapt to the amount of traffic.
answer to 1. will annoy those towing who are prevented from using the 3rd lane
my opinion on 2. go where you like as long as you are not holding up others needing to pass! but this looks like you are not paying attention and will attract the attention of the rozzers especially if you are speeding you will stand out.

 

[MattBW]

Genuine questions rather than an opinion or preference:

1. I have often heard on media complaints about drivers who hog the middle lane. Why is that?

Simple, because it reduces the roads effective capacity and thus causes congestion...

 

[Amarillo]

Genuine questions rather than an opinion or preference:

1. I have often heard on media complaints about drivers who hog the middle lane. Why is that?

2. Is the other driver's driving style the textbook recommended one. Stay in slowest lane, and then switch as needed....

Now, I always drive in outside lane finding it the safest with usually the most alert drivers, with the occassonal idiotic tail gater. Anyone faster than me, and sometimes there is a group of cars, I am to let overtake by moving to middle lane. But then I go back to outside lane.

I have found with Cali I have started using middle lane more than outside for obvious reasons. But one often runs into people doing 60 mph for no good reason, or as well people whose mind seems not to be on driving.

1. The inside lane is the driving lane, the other lanes are overtaking lanes. There is no need to move out of the inside lane unless overtaking. The only reasons to drive in the overtaking lanes is if slower moving traffic is in the inside lane or if traffic is moving slowly in lanes. In the latter case, it is perfectly acceptable to undertake.

2. My answer to 1. above probably answers 2. The terms 'slow lane' and 'fast lane' are not helpful to understand multi-lane carriageway driving in the UK.

Three lane Chinese motorways have a slightly different system, with two driving lanes and one overtaking lane. This is clearly communicated to foreign motorists (though confusingly they refer to driving lanes as carriageways):

The inside lane on Chinese motorways often have different speed limits to the other lanes, and are frequently occupied by very slow moving traffic and other hazards.

 

[VW Cali]

1. The inside lane is the driving lane, the other lanes are overtaking lanes. There is no need to move out of the inside lane unless overtaking. The only reasons to drive in the overtaking lanes is if slower moving traffic is in the inside lane or if traffic is moving slowly in lanes. In the latter case, it is perfectly acceptable to undertake.

2. My answer to 1. above probably answers 2. The terms 'slow lane' and 'fast lane' are not helpful to understand multi-lane carriageway driving in the UK.


.

That was also my impression.

However, post from T6 CFO above seems to suggest that the driver doing above was somehow in the wrong. Could it be that this was a person just following textbook recommendations to the surprise of T6 CFO who seems to prefer to hog middle lane (against recommendation).

Now I am not for 1 second claiming/opining T6 CFO wrong. Indeed many textbooks recommendations like the infamous BSM shuffle on steering wheel for driving seems to me not easily followed, and carrying its own risks. If T6 CFO sets his CC to 75 mph and left lane full for cars/lorries doing 55-60mph then it seems his hogging of middle lane, is no hogging but basically overtaking. Given that driver ahead of him kept moving to driving lane seems to suggest that at times there was no immediate overtaking involved.

But would anyone keep moving lanes every half mile/mile or so?

Theory and practise seem to diverge for understandable reasons.

My main issue with middle lane drivers is that when I try to let cars overtake me on outside lane, I find middle lane drivers going just as fast as me. One has to speed up to find an opening.

 

[T6 CFO]

I believe you know what I was trying to say but I suspect that you prefer to provoke.
My point was clearly not to advocate hogging the middle lane but it was to highlight that continually changing lanes has dangers. It's quite possible if you are courteous and have any driving skill to reduce the lane changes to a minimum. I was not advocating none, it was an example.
As it seems necessary to point out the obvious I have done so.
I shall now resume ignore mode.


Mike

 

[VW Cali]

I believe you know what I was trying to say but I suspect that you prefer to provoke.
My point was clearly not to advocate hogging the middle lane but it was to highlight that continually changing lanes has dangers. It's quite possible if you are courteous and have any driving skill to reduce the lane changes to a minimum. I was not advocating none, it was an example.
As it seems necessary to point out the obvious I have done so.
I shall now resume ignore mode.


Mike

Get a grip man!

I actually reached the conclusion that the recommended approach carried its own issues, and was therefore rarely practiced.

Read what I wrote again. Nobody tried to provoke you. Just nonsense.

 

[Amarillo]

I believe you know what I was trying to say but I suspect that you prefer to provoke.
My point was clearly not to advocate hogging the middle lane but it was to highlight that continually changing lanes has dangers. It's quite possible if you are courteous and have any driving skill to reduce the lane changes to a minimum. I was not advocating none, it was an example.
As it seems necessary to point out the obvious I have done so.
I shall now resume ignore mode.


Mike

Just to cool matters, I think that both the Chinese and British systems have merit. It is a shame that I provided a faulty link, so here's the url:
http://www3.autoimg.cn/newsdfs/g21/M0B/00/9D/620x0_1_autohomecar__wKgFWlfEVMuAJmllAAKyJRIcE_Y419.jpg

However, it should be remembered that we should not be driving according to Chinese motorway standards in the UK.

 

[T6 CFO]

Get a grip man!

I actually reached the conclusion that the recommended approach carried its own issues, and was therefore rarely practiced.

Read what I wrote again. Nobody tried to provoke you. Just nonsense.

"Get a grip man!"

Thanks for that.

I humbly apologise as I have obviously read you completely wrong.

In fact I must have read almost everything you post wrong.

I'll go and get a grip now. Bye




Mike

 

[VW Cali]

"Get a grip man!"

Thanks for that.

I humbly apologise as I have obviously read you completely wrong.

In fact I must have read almost everything you post wrong.

I'll go and get a grip now. Bye




Mike

No need for apology. Yes, you did read it completely wrong. I am not even insinuating that you did so deliberately. But facts are above - in plain English.

I have no idea whether you read everything I write wrong. I will stay on detail.

 

[VW Cali]

That was also my impression.

However, post from T6 CFO above seems to suggest that the driver doing above was somehow in the wrong. Could it be that this was a person just following textbook recommendations to the surprise of T6 CFO who seems to prefer to hog middle lane (against recommendation).

Now I am not for 1 second claiming/opining T6 CFO wrong. Indeed many textbooks recommendations like the infamous BSM shuffle on steering wheel for driving seems to me not easily followed, and carrying its own risks. If T6 CFO sets his CC to 75 mph and left lane full for cars/lorries doing 55-60mph then it seems his hogging of middle lane, is no hogging but basically overtaking. Given that driver ahead of him kept moving to driving lane seems to suggest that at times there was no immediate overtaking involved.

But would anyone keep moving lanes every half mile/mile or so?

Theory and practise seem to diverge for understandable reasons.

My main issue with middle lane drivers is that when I try to let cars overtake me on outside lane, I find middle lane drivers going just as fast as me. One has to speed up to find an opening.

Seemed to come across as provocation.

 

[gregspam]

Now, I always drive in outside lane finding it the safest with usually the most alert drivers.

My main issue with middle lane drivers is that when I try to let cars overtake me on outside lane, I find middle lane drivers going just as fast as me. One has to speed up to find an opening.

Goodness, who'd have thought that when in the outside lane you have to be going faster than drivers in the middle lane to overtake them? What an inconvenience! It doesn't take a genius to realise you're in the wrong lane.

But generally agreed re this thread and there being too much opining, best to stop here.... he says after making a provocative reply. Sorry couldn't help myself on this occasion.

 

[VW Cali]

Goodness, who'd have thought that when in the outside lane you have to be going faster than drivers in the middle lane to overtake them? What an inconvenience! It doesn't take a genius to realise you're in the wrong lane.

But generally agreed re this thread and there being too much opining, best to stop here.... he says after making a provocative reply. Sorry couldn't help myself on this occasion.

You missed the point:

Sometimes there are guys sitting in the middle lane at constant say 80mph for no good reason. So if you are trying to let cars in right most lane overtake you either have to go faster than or watch out.

Some middle laners seem to be even faster than outside lane drivers. Say right hand lane has traffic at 75mph and you get tail gated. You want to move to left only to find that a number of cars are doing 80mph making it difficult to get in. So essentially you are being overtaken on the left.

Interesting that in Germany overtaking from slow lane is against the law - considered dangerous. I personally never pass cars on their passenger side. It is not safe in my view at least. So I move to the outer lane, even if slower and bide my time.

If middle lane cars moving faster, say 75-80mph, the only option left for someone in the fast lane is to then speed up to say 85-90mph to get into the middle lane.

My view is that middle laners should not be passing cars on the passenger side. It is a blind spot, and indeed a potential source of accidents.

Can you advise, genius or otherwise, why it is so obvious that one should speed up to even higher speeds to overtake cars in middle lane to get into middle lane?

 

[Loz]

You missed the point:

Sometimes there are guys sitting in the middle lane at constant say 80mph for no good reason. So if you are trying to let cars in right most lane overtake you either have to go faster than or watch out.

Some middle laners seem to be even faster than outside lane drivers. Say right hand lane has traffic at 75mph and you get tail gated. You want to move to left only to find that a number of cars are doing 80mph making it difficult to get in. So essentially you are being overtaken on the left.

Interesting that in Germany overtaking from slow lane is against the law - considered dangerous. I personally never pass cars on their passenger side. It is not safe in my view at least. So I move to the outer lane, even if slower and bide my time.

If middle lane cars moving faster, say 75-80mph, the only option left for someone in the fast lane is to then speed up to say 85-90mph to get into the middle lane.

My view is that middle laners should not be passing cars on the passenger side. It is a blind spot, and indeed a potential source of accidents.

Can you advise, genius or otherwise, why it is so obvious that one should speed up to even higher speeds to overtake cars in middle lane to get into middle lane?

If we followed your logic all motorways would be one long queue of cars on the right hand lane with 2 empty lanes to your left!

 

[VW Cali]

If we followed your logic all motorways would be one long queue of cars on the right hand lane with 2 empty lanes to your left!

Hahahaha:

Exactly! As is on those countries where passing on inside lane is illegal. In those countries they wasted money on building extra lanes.

Lucky that few follow my logic or theirs here in Blighty then . And look at the types who agree with me: all those anti-gun campaigners in America who also tend to campaign to make inside lane overtaking illegal.

What I really about your statement is the precise mathematical nature of it. Genius in the simplicity of deduction:



Namely, that there is a binary choice between:

1) Letting people pass on the inside lane.

OR

2) Using only a single lane.

I wouldn't say it ranks up there with the Goldbach conjecture. But it is a precise mathematical conjecture.

Well done!

 

[WelshGas]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22784983