The New All electric California due in Autumn 2019. What are you thoughts?

[zinglefiffy]

Its this period of transition which we appear to be on the brink of, which actually helped us decide to go for a new diesel cali despite the diesel-hate in the press.
Currently constructing an electric vehicle has 1.5 times the climate impact of a non-electric. We live in a rented terrace house with no possibility of the landlord installing an on-street charger (he needs to fix the leaking shower we told him about 6 years ago first) and in blackburn there are very few public chargers (no more than 6 last time i looked). Combine that with there actually being very few electric models that can accommodate the family easily and that car based MPVs appear built to a budget and start falling apart after the average family has lived in it for a few year, and suddenly the Beech looks like the best option - we take the climate hit on its construction, but then hopefully have a family workhorse which will cope with a young family and actually last long enough to see us through this transition period without us having to buy several more cars along the way.

Thats the hope anyway.

 

[superchoward]

I think this argument is very much down to personal circumstance and attitudes towards convenience. I have been driving a BMW i3 with Range Extender for the past 2 years as a company car and I do 15k miles a year. On electric only it has a range of approximately 100 miles, probably 120 in summer and for 95% of my journeys this is more than adequate without any need to consider charging requirements. I have a driveway for off-street parking and a charging point installed at home so generally charge it overnight regardless of what the state of charge is at the end of the day.

I have used the car to travel as far as Germany with a combination of using the range extender which gets me another 80 miles and charging along the way. If your driving for circa 175-200 miles in one stint with a 45 minute break to recharge AND refuel along the way then that’s perfectly acceptable to me.

If I could get an electric California with a 300 mile range then I would have no hesitation to go for it in practicality terms. My main concern would be the residual values as the rate of progress on electric vehicles currently means that in 4-5 years the range of vehicles on sale is likely to be significantly better and in turn the residual value of a vehicle purchased with today’s technology will be terrible

 

[homerorchid]

I bought a new all electric Smart Fortwo a few months ago, love it. Meets my needs perfectly as a 3rd car (approx 20 mile a day usage). Approx 100 miles quoted on full charge by Mercedes. In my experience the car does about 50 to 60 miles on a full charge (approx 40% less than suggested). It is suggested that in general it's best not to frequently run the battery below 20%. Taking this in to account, real life average on a full charge is between 40 and 50 miles (half the quoted figure). If the suggested miles for an electric T6, with a full charge is 300 miles and it performs similar to my electric vehicle, real life usable miles on a full charge maybe somewhere between 120 & 150 miles per full charge. When you consider the weight of a California, the very variable usage of battery power from winter to summer, no diesel heater, very limited charging infrastructure (could campsites cope with electric vehicle charging), possible cost of not owning battery (cost of leasing), I don't think I'll be ordering one.

 

[Borris]

I think this argument is very much down to personal circumstance and attitudes towards convenience. I have been driving a BMW i3 with Range Extender for the past 2 years as a company car and I do 15k miles a year. On electric only it has a range of approximately 100 miles, probably 120 in summer and for 95% of my journeys this is more than adequate without any need to consider charging requirements. I have a driveway for off-street parking and a charging point installed at home so generally charge it overnight regardless of what the state of charge is at the end of the day.

I have used the car to travel as far as Germany with a combination of using the range extender which gets me another 80 miles and charging along the way. If your driving for circa 175-200 miles in one stint with a 45 minute break to recharge AND refuel along the way then that’s perfectly acceptable to me.

If I could get an electric California with a 300 mile range then I would have no hesitation to go for it in practicality terms. My main concern would be the residual values as the rate of progress on electric vehicles currently means that in 4-5 years the range of vehicles on sale is likely to be significantly better and in turn the residual value of a vehicle purchased with today’s technology will be terrible

But the question is, will battery tech improve that quickly over the next few years?

They had electric vehicles in the very early 1900s and the range hasn't really improved that much in the last century. Man has learned to fly, gone to the moon and discovered nuclear power in that time and yet we can still only get a 300 miles range on flat ground in warm weather with a lightly loaded vehicle using no accessories. Hardly a rapid development! Perhaps they will crack this nut but I'm not interested in an EV of any sort unless very substantial improvements are made in range, charging infrastructure and pricing at the very least and even then I would still have reservations about battery life, residuals and the UKs ability to keep pace with the demand for power.

 

[WelshGas]

Just like Fuel Consumption figures and Emissions data I would take the claimed Electric Vehicle Range figures with a very large pinch of salt, about 25 Kgms to be exact.
And don’t get me started on the Whole Vehicle environmental impact of an electric vehicle.

 

[superchoward]

But the question is, will battery tech improve that quickly over the next few years?

They had electric vehicles in the very early 1900s and the range hasn't really improved that much in the last century. Man has learned to fly, gone to the moon and discovered nuclear power in that time and yet we can still only get a 300 miles range on flat ground in warm weather with a lightly loaded vehicle using no accessories. Hardly a rapid development! Perhaps they will crack this nut but I'm not interested in an EV of any sort unless very substantial improvements are made in range, charging infrastructure and pricing at the very least and even then I would still have reservations about battery life, residuals and the UKs ability to keep pace with the demand for power.

Just taking the i3 as an example, 2013 when it was launched with a 60Ah battery, then it was facelifted in 2016 with a 94Ah battery and in late 2018 facelifted again with a 120Ah battery. So the capacity has doubled in the same volume which is pretty fast progress!

Or conversely, the price is coming down on cars with much longer range I.e. Tesla Model 3, Volkswagen ID range due to launch, Hyundai Kona/Kia Soul.

I’m by no means saying the technology is perfect but it is certainly improving.

Like @WelshGas says, the carbon emissions associated with the production of these cars and what we do with all of these batteries once they are spent is another argument altogether...

 

[Borris]

Just taking the i3 as an example, 2013 when it was launched with a 60Ah battery, then it was facelifted in 2016 with a 94Ah battery and in late 2018 facelifted again with a 120Ah battery. So the capacity has doubled in the same volume which is pretty fast progress!

Or conversely, the price is coming down on cars with much longer range I.e. Tesla Model 3, Volkswagen ID range due to launch, Hyundai Kona/Kia Soul.

I’m by no means saying the technology is perfect but it is certainly improving.



Like @WelshGas says, the carbon emissions associated with the production of these cars and what we do with all of these batteries once they are spent is another argument altogether...

Yes things are improving and if the they continue at the same rate perhaps I'll change my mind. We'll just have to wait and see.

I agree, using whole life environmental impact I suspect that keeping the current diesel fleet on the road might well be better for the planet than scrapping and the manufacture of new EVs.

 

[briwy]

I'd pefer they made a roof that doesn't corrode and sort out the basics before playing with this pointless excercise. Possibly done it to make their overall emmisons look good.

 

[sidepod]

I just don’t get the “stop and wait while you recharge “ thing.

If I’m using a power tool at home I don’t wait for the battery to charge I simply pop a fresh one in and crack on.

If the petrochemical industry suddenly announced it was going to take 45 mins to fill your tank us motorists would loose our collective sh*t!!! so how is waiting for a battery to charge an acceptable solution?
The only way the electric vehicle revolution will survive is with a common modular battery that you change in 5 mins and get on your way.

A leisure vehicle like the Cali with a 300 mile range is just bollox.

 

[MarkVw2017]

The new euro 6.1 diesel engines are very clean now though arnet they?

Why dont all EV cars have solar panels on the roof btw. I know it wouldnt charge a battery, but surely wouldn't harm by topping it up slowly throughout the day?

 

[soulstyledevon]

I can guarantee you won’t touch the 300 miles range.
My electric work van states 90 miles fully charged. It’s pretty much empty as I only carry a screwdriver, test meter and laptop.
But still it can only manage between 40-50 miles maximum. Fully charged time is 6 hrs+

As I only drive few miles at work, it’s fine. But I charge the van almost every night.

Agree with Sidepod. Who the hell drives only 175 miles and sits around for 45 minutes...?
My current T6 only manages 360 miles on a full tank and that’s a bit of an inconvenience if I’m honest. Infact, quite irritating.

Electric California’s aren’t a viable alternative anytime soon and doubt ever will be.

 

[MarkVw2017]

I just don’t get the “stop and wait while you recharge “ thing.

If I’m using a power tool at home I don’t wait for the battery to charge I simply pop a fresh one in and crack on.

If the petrochemical industry suddenly announced it was going to take 45 mins to fill your tank us motorists would loose our collective sh*t!!! so how is waiting for a battery to charge an acceptable solution?
The only way the electric vehicle revolution will survive is with a common modular battery that you change in 5 mins and get on your way.

A leisure vehicle like the Cali with a 300 mile range is just bollox.

Wireless charging tech is available, so why do i see those horrrible thick black electric charging cables coming out of people offices windoes, out there houses windows, in their cars. Seems soooo yester year tech. Come on Duracell, you are missing a trick here. 3000 miles range. I see the advert now, tesla car dies and then the duracell car just keeps on going for 3000 miles...... Or the new iPhone 12, can also charge an EV battery full in 2 minutes. Ooh, the future hey!

 

[motacyclist]

Interesting video on this topic

 

[MarkVw2017]

Interesting video on this topic

That video is brilliant!!!

 

[Wongo]

Do look up latest diesel technolgy from Bosch

 

[Jay20cali]

So VW are releasing an all electric powered version of the T6.1 including a California version in Autumn 2019.

It states a range of upto 300 miles, but how do you all feel about a 300 mile range? Is that enough? Its the charging that worries me?
View attachment 41664

Quote from Top Gear
"Alongside a bunch of 2.0 TDI diesels (topping out at 196bhp) there’s now a fully electric version, developed with the help of tuning and motorsport specialists ABT and possessing 110bhp. With the option of a humongous 77.6kWh battery, it can travel almost 300 miles on a charge. Though we suspect that’ll fall depending on how you drive it and how heavily you load it"

Just did a 1800 mile round trip to the alps in a week
I don’t know how you could possibly do trips like this?
it was a long enough drive without sitting around waiting for a vehicle to charge up every 300 miles.

 

[2into1]

The pendulum has clearly swung away from diesel but I think it may well swing back. Euro 6 with Ad Blue seems to have made a real impact on the 'recently discovered' baddies in diesel, there is talk of a further Euro 7 standard. With all the environmental impact of battery production, the lack of electricity generating capacity in the UK and cost of building a charging infrastructure for those folks without drives.....it's not dead yet.

I believe the UK has signed up to ban the sale of new 'cars' with internal combustion engines by 2040. That's just the sale of them. As I don't think anyone is seriously expecting HGVs to be electric by then, there will still be widespread availability of diesel.

I think I'm over my panic.

 

[Turfschipper]

I think charging your battery for an electric car will not be a problem in the future. Cause my best geuss is electric cars will not drive on charging batteries on a loadstation, but will have hydrogen fuel tanks.

Hydrogen can be made out of water. You split h20 in h2 and 02. You do this by flowing an electric current trough the water.

You can also reverse this reaction. So if you have h2, and you use a typical cathode, you let the h2 run trough it, you get h20, water, again, plus an electric current.

This current will charge your battery. So, in future, in your electric car, you will hardly charge your car at a loadstation, but you will go to a pumpstation, as it always has been, and fill your h2 tank.

The residu of an h2 engine is water. H2 can be made of water. So it is completely, almost (need battery and other materials), healthy for the environment.

I think it will go this way. But i might be wrong haha.

 

[Turfschipper]

Hmmm... can not edit previous post, but i forgot to add. The electric current you need to split h20 will come from large wind turbines and solar screens and other natural energy resources. So, the whole circle of energy will be ‘green’.

 

[MarkVw2017]

Hmmm... can not edit previous post, but i forgot to add. The electric current you need to split h20 will come from large wind turbines and solar screens and other natural energy resources. So, the whole circle of energy will be ‘green’.

And will there be enough solar farms & wind turbines in 20 years to create the eltrectricity to create enough hydrgen for every car in the uk.

 

[soulstyledevon]

That video is brilliant!!!

The guy is bonkers.
I ike him

 

[MattBW]

I think this would be great for a daily driver locally, I am personally ready for an electric vehicle. I can see an electric Beach being a potential goer but an Ocean for me wouldn't be practical.

Charging a tesla with its 300 mile range on a 10amp connection takes 4 days, yes you read that right, 4 days! So a 300mile range on a van is likely to take even longer than that... A special charger is 32amps so much faster but thats unlikely to be available on campsites for a long time. That's assuming that campsites could take even 10amps for a pre-longed high throughput, I wager not.

So for me it's probably be OK for a week long holiday in the same spot but you couldn't tour in that could you? Even with the proper chargers it would be 20-30hours to get it full from what I've heard.

I have a dream one day to convert my T25 to Electric, I'm waiting patiently for the tech to advance and these products are only bringing that date ever closer. Exciting times.

One thing will be certain, it will be a lot faster than todays vans.

 

[2into1]

convert my T25 to Electric

it will be a lot faster than todays vans.

It will certainly be a lot faster than it was at birth!

 

[hirsty]

Scale - everything changes with volume. See also: Moores Law.

Batteries tech will improve to increase output / capacity from the same sized unit. Charging time will be cut in half, and then cut in half again. Motors will become more efficient to improve output from same charge. Regenerative charging from braking will improve, as will aerodynamics, tyre design & any number of drivetrain components. Autonomous vehicles will drive closer together like train carriages or cycle race team chain-gangs vastly improving efficiency.

Current cars (and the petrol stations we fuel them in), ownership & financial models are unrecognisable compared to when I started driving as a teenager, things happen far more quickly than people generally think they will.

@superchoward makes a good point about residuals though - an MY'20 Cali will be a limited & expensive proposition, but the one after, and then the one after that, will be even better. If there's never a first one (which can never please 'all of the people'), then there can't be an improved MkII to follow.

Small-mileage urban vans and high-end 'high days & holidays' vehicles with a well-heeled ownership demographic are good places to start.

 

[Erbster]

I think charging your battery for an electric car will not be a problem in the future. Cause my best geuss is electric cars will not drive on charging batteries on a loadstation, but will have hydrogen fuel tanks.

Hydrogen can be made out of water. You split h20 in h2 and 02. You do this by flowing an electric current trough the water.

You can also reverse this reaction. So if you have h2, and you use a typical cathode, you let the h2 run trough it, you get h20, water, again, plus an electric current.

This current will charge your battery. So, in future, in your electric car, you will hardly charge your car at a loadstation, but you will go to a pumpstation, as it always has been, and fill your h2 tank.

The residu of an h2 engine is water. H2 can be made of water. So it is completely, almost (need battery and other materials), healthy for the environment.

I think it will go this way. But i might be wrong haha.

The concept of hydrogen fuel cells has been around for a while, but has never taken off because hydrogen is difficult to store safely in fuel tanks. Unlikely to catch on imo.

Like many technologies, the commercial or political dimension decides whether a technology attains mass adoption, so unless some big players get behind an idea it doesn’t take off. EV’s despite their limitations seem to be gaining momentum (pun intended) and have a nice green label, despite their currently questionable overall environmental credentials.


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