Tyre size specifications unclear

[BlueCalifornia]

I'm trying to buy a set of rims with winter tyres, but there is more to it than expected. Read many threads on this forum and online, but still a couple of things things I cannot figure out, base on the instruction on the sticker in my Cali T5 from 2007. Hopefully somebody else understands the logic in all of this

- Why does it only state "M+S" for the 215/60 R17C tyre and not for the others? Is this size specifically recommended for winter tyres? If yes - what is the reasoning behind?

- My spare tyre has size of 215/65 R16C. If i would fit a pair of 215/60 R17C tyres, those would have a slightly higher circumference than the spare. Would it then still be ok to use this spare?

- Why are the 235/60 R16 and 235/55 R17 sizes only indicated in the "XL" version and not the C version?

- Pressures between the "C" and "XL" tires are significantly different. Why is this?

- Also no clue why the different sizes come with different loadindex...weight is the same in all cases?

- For the 215/60 R17C tyre, the tyre pressures are exactly the same for fully loaded or empty van. For the other tyres this isn't the case. No clue why.

- Is there any real disadvantage in using tyres with higher load index?

Furthermore I read in some tests that the winter tyres for van are all actually underperforming. Best ones being the Continental Van Contact Winter, Michelin Agilis Alpin and Pirelli Carrier Winter. So i'm wondering if after all, maybe i could also go for the Agilis Crossclimate instead.

 

[BlueCalifornia]

Just a reply to my own message here. I was for example considering the set below, as they are the 215/60 R17C wheels. However, the tyres have a higher load rating and not sure about my 16" spare tyre (if i could still use it together with these).

In addition - not sure about the load rating of these rims. Because that's apparently something to double check as well? Don't know the ratings, but will ask

 

[Tarquers]

I think you will find the 215/60/17 is a commercial tyre designed for vans that load and unload so they maintain the same weight range with a stiffer side wall I run an all season Michelin Van Agilis tyre (not the right name) and it is actually a decent ride. The “C” means commercial.

Generally the higher the load rating the stiffer the tyre but I suspect harder to tell. I find the commercial tyres have a stronger side wall and dislike the SUV type tyres that are more car like but that’s personal choice.

The Ronal rims are actually supplied by VW on the continent, my van came with a set of these in 18” which I swapped to 17s. There will be an embossed letter code which allows you to look up the load rating (sorry can’t recall what it is called, something like the K number) and from memory those rims are just about OK for a beach. Internet search will give you a value to match the number. There should be an axel load limit number under the bonnet which should be twice the wheel limit.

With a spare, if you are FWD you are generally able to not worry about different sizes for short distances at low speeds, for 4motion it can give issues with the haldex so if you have a rear puncture, swap a good front to the rear and the small spare on the front and get to where you are going.

Regarding winter tyres or not, depends where you live and personal choice. I am happy with good all seasons and have a set of good chains for when I need when in the mountains. They are still brand new in the box but have them anyway. Beware that VW say only fit chains on 215 width tyres due to clearance with the suspension strut on the wider tyres.

 

[BlueCalifornia]

Thanks!

I have a FWD, so then spare tyre size may not be an issue.

To be honest, i'm still slightly in doubt whether it may not be better to just swap my summer tyres to all-seaon ones instead of going for two sets. However, I still believe winter tyres are safer/better for driving in the mountains in the snow, so think I will stick to two separate sets.

Ok, so you seem to suggest that the 215/60/17 and 215/65/16 sizes are more typical van (commercial) sizes, hence the C rating. So probably not possible to find XL versions for those sizes anyway? And similar story to the XL versions in the list.

I think i would prefer the van type tyres, so will go with either one of these two listed sizes.

Thanks for the hints on the load rating and Ronal rims - will double check this. So if they are just ok for the beach, then probably to light for my Cali.

Still not quite sure though, why they recommend the R17 over the R16 for winter tyres. Any clue?

 

[Tarquers]

Quick check of winter tyres approved for the T6 from a tyre site threw up some interesting sizes:



With the 205/65/16 size I have never seen before, so maybe something in it? Afraid I can’t offer any more on the size issue but generally the narrower tyres perform better.

Regarding the rims, the value is the KBA number which is on the rim and easy to search. Just checked my photos and my rims while same manufacture are different model so worth checking to see what the weight limit is.

 

[trev0rk]

Quick check of winter tyres approved for the T6 from a tyre site threw up some interesting sizes:
View attachment 103304


With the 205/65/16 size I have never seen before, so maybe something in it? Afraid I can’t offer any more on the size issue but generally the narrower tyres perform better.

Regarding the rims, the value is the KBA number which is on the rim and easy to search. Just checked my photos and my rims while same manufacture are different model so worth checking to see what the weight limit is.

205/65/16 is the standard tyre on T6 Transporters.

 

[BlueCalifornia]

One more question, just checked under the bonnet and it says:
1 - 1575kg
2 - 1500kg

How should I interpret this? Because it would mean a load rating of 800kg would be sufficient as a minimum. Just checked for the above rims, the owner stated they are rated for 1350kg, but just checked some other ones that are listed as suitable for the T5, but have only a rating of 900kg.

 

[Tarquers]

Exactly right, you need a rim that has a load rating of 800 kg. Not sure about the 1350 rating, only way to check is to verify the KBA.

 

[andyinluton]

Still not quite sure though, why they recommend the R17 over the R16 for winter tyres. Any clue?

R16 rims don't fit over the brakes on Vans with the 17" chassis = All current Oceans, most older Oceans, larger engined SE and some Coasts.

There are others, easiest way to tell is the tyre pressure sticker on the front door pillar, if 16" sizes are shown they will fit.

 

[Calimili]

I don't understand why the so many questions. Who cares why, you have a list of several possibilities for tyres combinations. I would ignore the spare wheel, you are unlikely to have to drive 1000 mi on it.
Just choose the tyres you want within that list and put pressure as indicated, calculated by the engineers that built and certified your van. As already stated with FWD put the spare on the back.
The rim you show, seems to be the ronal R56, certified for 900Kg (each rim!), so ok for your van. I am not sure of the same design is for other rims from ronal, for cars, certified for a axle weight of 1350 .

The C on the tyres is for Commercial, those tipically reinforced and very robust tyres that would be used commercially by the trade. They tipically last long mileage. The trade doesn't care about soft, comfy ride, they want a tyre that lasts long mileage and can take some abuse.

After long research i myself opted for the Ronal R56 (matt and silver combo) because of 1) the load rating, 2) they are ones of only a few rims certified on a Cali that you can use snow chains even on 235/55 -17 tyres , which is exactly what I've got. (Bridg LM005).
No disadvantage on higher load rating.

 

[BlueCalifornia]

I don't understand why the so many questions. Who cares why, you have a list of several possibilities for tyres combinations. I would ignore the spare wheel, you are unlikely to have to drive 1000 mi on it.
Just choose the tyres you want within that list and put pressure as indicated, calculated by the engineers that built and certified your van. As already stated with FWD put the spare on the back.
The rim you show, seems to be the ronal R56, certified for 900Kg (each rim!), so ok for your van. I am not sure of the same design is for other rims from ronal, for cars, certified for a axle weight of 1350 .

The C on the tyres is for Commercial, those tipically reinforced and very robust tyres that would be used commercially by the trade. They tipically last long mileage. The trade doesn't care about soft, comfy ride, they want a tyre that lasts long mileage and can take some abuse.

After long research i myself opted for the Ronal R56 (matt and silver combo) because of 1) the load rating, 2) they are ones of only a few rims certified on a Cali that you can use snow chains even on 235/55 -17 tyres , which is exactly what I've got. (Bridg LM005).
No disadvantage on higher load rating.

Many questions because I like to understand things. Thanks for your feedback.

Checked a bit more on these Ronal rims, but they have an ET of 42. The website of Ronal lists this one for the T5, although i read somewhere on the forum should not go lower than ET45 for the T5. According to https://tire-size.net/size/volkswagen/t5/ it should be ET55 for the 17inch version and ET51 for the 16 inch version (and yes, that raises another question, why is this different for 16inch and 17inch actually?)

But I understand you are using the Ronal R56 as well, so apparently no problem?

 

[andyinluton]

According to https://tire-size.net/size/volkswagen/t5/ it should be ET55 for the 17inch version and ET51 for the 16 inch version (and yes, that raises another question, why is this different for 16inch and 17inch actually?)

But I understand you are using the Ronal R56 as well, so apparently no problem?

The difference is that the bigger diameter rims are also wider, if half the difference in width is added either side of the rim, the inside edge gets closer to the suspension struts. By putting in more offset the inside edge stays the same distance to the struts & all the extra width is effectively on the outside edge.

 

[Calimili]

Many questions because I like to understand things. Thanks for your feedback.

Checked a bit more on these Ronal rims, but they have an ET of 42. The website of Ronal lists this one for the T5, although i read somewhere on the forum should not go lower than ET45 for the T5. According to https://tire-size.net/size/volkswagen/t5/ it should be ET55 for the 17inch version and ET51 for the 16 inch version (and yes, that raises another question, why is this different for 16inch and 17inch actually?)

But I understand you are using the Ronal R56 as well, so apparently no problem?

The Ronal R56 come with a Certificate from the Tüv, this here.
This document lists all the car models this rim is certified for. In Germany you can not put on any car, any rim. The rims are either approved from the car manufacturer, or the rim manufacturer has to have the rims tested and certified for the respective car models. I need to carry such certificate with me, if I've mounted not OEM parts on specific critical components like rims are (as well as breakes, lights, horn, windscreen, exhausts etc).
If you look at the document page 3 (for T5s that came originally with 16" rims) or page4 (for T5s that came originally with 17" rims), it lists the T5 models that are certified to use this R56 rim and with which tyre choice. The additional note A93) indicates you can also mount snow chains. In your V5 under letter K you have the Type approval number, and if it matches any of those indicated at the top of page 3 or 4 accordingly, you would be fine.... in Germany. I don't remember what the rules are in the UK, when I lived there my car was kept stock, but I struggle to believe the Uk would not accept such Certificate from a well know Certifier like the Tüv. The guys here in the forum may be able to assist you better than me on this regard.

 

[B J G]

Many questions because I like to understand things. Thanks for your feedback.

Checked a bit more on these Ronal rims, but they have an ET of 42. The website of Ronal lists this one for the T5, although i read somewhere on the forum should not go lower than ET45 for the T5. According to https://tire-size.net/size/volkswagen/t5/ it should be ET55 for the 17inch version and ET51 for the 16 inch version (and yes, that raises another question, why is this different for 16inch and 17inch actually?)

But I understand you are using the Ronal R56 as well, so apparently no problem?

16" rims are 6" wide ; 17" are 7" wide.
As previously mentioned the rim width needs to be taken into account when the Offset is specified.
On 17x7" rims going lower than 45 Offset will result in the rims protruding further out. This will mean a dirtier van from mud thrown up the sides and possible front arch clearance problems. A 45 Offset is the same as having a 10mm spacer fitted to a standard 17" rim in terms of rim outer position.
Gets awkward as rims are in inches and Offsets are in millimetres

Stick to VW Offsets if possible.

 

[Tarquers]

16" rims are 6" wide ; 17" are 7" wide

Going to disagree with this statement. There is a variation in width available in both sizes, and the door sticker in the OP shows that 16 inch rims in recommended sizes can be both 6.5 and 7 inches wide. (The J is the bead profile).

 

[B J G]

Going to disagree with this statement. There is a variation in width available in both sizes, and the door sticker in the OP shows that 16 inch rims in recommended sizes can be both 6.5 and 7 inches wide. (The J is the bead profile).

Stand corrected (didn't fully observe the sticker) on 16" but not come across other than 7" in 17" from VW. 18" being 8" wide.

 

[BlueCalifornia]

The Ronal R56 come with a Certificate from the Tüv, this here.
This document lists all the car models this rim is certified for. In Germany you can not put on any car, any rim. The rims are either approved from the car manufacturer, or the rim manufacturer has to have the rims tested and certified for the respective car models. I need to carry such certificate with me, if I've mounted not OEM parts on specific critical components like rims are (as well as breakes, lights, horn, windscreen, exhausts etc).
If you look at the document page 3 (for T5s that came originally with 16" rims) or page4 (for T5s that came originally with 17" rims), it lists the T5 models that are certified to use this R56 rim and with which tyre choice. The additional note A93) indicates you can also mount snow chains. In your V5 under letter K you have the Type approval number, and if it matches any of those indicated at the top of page 3 or 4 accordingly, you would be fine.... in Germany. I don't remember what the rules are in the UK, when I lived there my car was kept stock, but I struggle to believe the Uk would not accept such Certificate from a well know Certifier like the Tüv. The guys here in the forum may be able to assist you better than me on this regard.

Thanks a lot, very useful! Also found a good set with steel rims with exactly the right ET, somehow that feels more comfortable still.

Follow up question (maybe for a new thread) - want to buy some snow chains. The instruction manual of the T5 says that there is maximum of 15mm space available, while almost all snow chains I find require 16mm of spacing. Does this 1mm matter? Could only find the Konig XG-12 Pro suitable for T5 that requires only 12mm space, but found some bad reviews about those.

 

[Tarquers]

I have 215 tyres and König XG-12 Pro 235 chains. Very easy to use and no clearance issues. Can’t comment on other sizes as no experience.

 

[BlueCalifornia]

As i'm ru

I have 215 tyres and König XG-12 Pro 235 chains. Very easy to use and no clearance issues. Can’t comment on other sizes as no experience.

These were my first pick, but then read some bad reviews about snapping chains. Have you used them often?

Have now ordered these: Pewag Brenta C XMR 76 V 4x4, require 16mm of clearance, so let's see if they fit.

 

[robrob]

Good evening all
I have a 2024 Coast with 17" steel rims and at present fitted with Bridgestone Duravis 215 60 17C 109/107 tyres.

I am looking for the best bet in tyres that have 3PMSF rating with some (but not extreme) ofroad capability. A confusing quest ! . Has anyone any experience of these BF Goodrich ? .

BFGoodrich Activan 4S
215/60 R17C 109/107T 8PR  3PMSF​

I've also seen that the Falken Wildpeak below are reasonably priced and seem to get good write ups.

Falken Wildpeak A/T3WA
215/60 R17 100H XL  3PMSF​

Though the recommendations I have on the door pillar for 17" are 104/102 H M+S or 109/107 7 (104H). Would the 100H XL be adequate?

Does anyone have other recommendations that will keep me in the same rim size and will not impact on fitting the spare into the spare wheel recess?
Thanks in advance for suggestions and answers
Rob

 

[Tarquers]

I use the Michelin cross climate 2 van not SUV version and run on a lot of gravel and rutted roads. They are all season with the correct logos and are reasonable alternative to snow tyres. About 60k km so far and going strong. Particularly strong sidewall with kerb protection and look reasonably tough with low road noise.

 

[Tarquers]

As i'm ru

These were my first pick, but then read some bad reviews about snapping chains. Have you used them often?

Have now ordered these: Pewag Brenta C XMR 76 V 4x4, require 16mm of clearance, so let's see if they fit.

Sorry did not see this reply, I have used them, but not often. Couple of times including test fitting. No complaints and easy to use.

 

[B J G]

Good evening all
I have a 2024 Coast with 17" steel rims and at present fitted with Bridgestone Duravis 215 60 17C 109/107 tyres.

I am looking for the best bet in tyres that have 3PMSF rating with some (but not extreme) ofroad capability. A confusing quest ! . Has anyone any experience of these BF Goodrich ? .

BFGoodrich Activan 4S​

215/60 R17C 109/107T 8PR  3PMSF​

I've also seen that the Falken Wildpeak below are reasonably priced and seem to get good write ups.

Falken Wildpeak A/T3WA​

215/60 R17 100H XL  3PMSF​

Though the recommendations I have on the door pillar for 17" are 104/102 H M+S or 109/107 7 (104H). Would the 100H XL be adequate?

Does anyone have other recommendations that will keep me in the same rim size and will not impact on fitting the spare into the spare wheel recess?
Thanks in advance for suggestions and answers
Rob

Load rating 102 is the minimum that you can use. 100 would make the vehicle classed as not roadworthy with all of the legal. insurance and safety implications involved.
103 load is generally considered the minimum on Californias. you can go higher.

Top rated tyre is the Michelin Agilis Crossclimate. Negative being price but excellent reports on mileage. available in 215/60/17. You could fit the wider 235/60/17 which will give a slight increase in road speed, will fit in spare rack with no problems.

235/55/17-103 is the usual alternative size for 215/60/17. SUV rated tyres are well suited to vans as they have stronger sidewalls to cope with the weight.
They also have a broader selection of Brands available than the van 215/60/17 tyres.

 

[robrob]

Thanks BJG. That's what I'd thought regarding 102 load rating. I'll browse through the threads to see what opinions on Falken are, and what choice there is in 235 55 17, but it looks like Agilis may be the way to go.