Which electric car to buy?

[Wildcamper]

Did anyone watch this BBC Panorama report last night…?

BBC One - Panorama, The Electric Car Revolution: Winners and Losers

How ethical is Tesla's supply chain? Darragh MacIntyre investigates.

www.bbc.co.uk

It’s made me think twice, that’s for sure.

Worth watching a second time to try and grasp more of the detail, too shocking first time. Now add in lithium mining in S America and yes wait for it - Neodymium! Am beginning to feel like a old stuck record. Good luck to the nuns - God bless.

 

[Amarillo]

Overpopulation is the problem but no government will discuss this.

I don’t suppose a cull of the population is likely to be a vote winner.

 

[WelshGas]

I don’t suppose a cull of the population is likely to be a vote winner.

With the new Covid variant, just identified, who knows.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Overpopulation is the problem but no government will discuss this.

Climate change falls into the category of "wicked problems" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_problem), of which one characteristic is a diversity of view on what the problem "is".

Obviously GHG emissions are ultimately connected to population numbers, in the sense that if no people, no emissions. But... birth rates are heading steeply downwards in most parts of the world - due largely the education of girls and healthcare advances. During my lifetime the average number of births per woman has dropped from 4.5 to 2.4, and the decline is accelerating. In the same period total fossil fuel emissions have gone up from 2.5 to 10 Gt and is still rising.

So unless you're envisaging doing away with or at least compromising the life expectancy of some of the people already walking the earth, population control doesn't seem to me to be the 'solution to the problem'.

In any case, by far the biggest chunk of emissions are by a small group of us humans - there are various measures of that but one is that the wealthiest 1% of the world's population emits more CO2 than the poorest 50% (Oxfam/Stockholm Environment institute). So if the richest nations/people changed their behaviour, the CC problem would be largely resolved or at least more easily managed without any attempt to modify population trends, even if any ethical methods to do that existed.

 

[Amarillo]

With the new Covid variant, just identified, who knows.

An extreme form of feminist might argue that you could safely cull 99% of males, put the remaining 40 million or so males out to stud, and allow women to better manage the planet.

 

[soulstyledevon]

An extreme form of feminist might argue that you could safely cull 99% of males, put the remaining 400 million or so males out to stud, and allow women to better manage the planet.

That simply wouldn’t work.
A roomful of females, usually ends with infighting to the death…

 

[Velma's Dad]

An extreme form of feminist might argue that you could safely cull 99% of males, put the remaining 400 million or so males out to stud, and allow women to better manage the planet.

That would probably suit us... because, let's face it, we're all assuming we'd be members of the 1%, aren't we?

 

[westfalia]

So unless you're envisaging doing away with or at least compromising the life expectancy of some of the people already walking the earth, population control doesn't seem to me to be the 'solution to the problem'.

You would need a vaccine or something and then force everyone to take
it and that could never happen.

 

[GrannyJen]

An extreme form of feminist might argue that you could safely cull 99% of males, put the remaining 40 million or so males out to stud, and allow women to better manage the planet.

Yeah....

A roomful of women drinking wine whilst one male watches football, belches, farts and falls to sleep

 

[Velma's Dad]

A roomful of women drinking wine whilst one male watches football, belches, farts and falls to sleep

This job gets better and better. Where do I sign up?

 

[andyinluton]

Yeah....

A roomful of women drinking wine whilst one male watches football, belches, farts and falls to sleep

With 3 daughters that sounds like our house.

 

[Dyddi]

Roll on Hydrogen power and converting existing internal combustion engines. Present plans are to dump millions of petrol/diesel vehicles and create millions of shortish life batteries containing rare elements. Doesn't feel like good news for the environment.

 

[reserves]

Roll on Hydrogen power and converting existing internal combustion engines. Present plans are to dump millions of petrol/diesel vehicles and create millions of shortish life batteries containing rare elements. Doesn't feel like good news for the environment.

Personally, I wouldn’t say 1 million mile batteries are ‘shortish life’

 

[Amarillo]

Personally, I wouldn’t say 1 million mile batteries are ‘shortish life’

And solid state batteries are already used for small appliances such as pacemakers. The technology for solid state for large batteries may come fairly soon.

The advantages of solid state batteries are:
- lighter
- faster charging
- more recharges
- greater range

VW is in an alliance with Bill Gates to produce large EV solid state batteries by 2024.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Roll on Hydrogen power and converting existing internal combustion engines. Present plans are to dump millions of petrol/diesel vehicles and create millions of shortish life batteries containing rare elements. Doesn't feel like good news for the environment.

I’ve never understood why people are drawn to making these bleak posts, especially when there aren’t any facts to back them up. Dumping millions of petrol/diesel vehicles…like we already do as a society that scraps most vehicles before they’re 10 years old. Is it an end times cult thing? I certainly won’t be scrapping my Cali 10 years from now, I’ll be converting it to whatever has turned out to be the best option, using kits offered by third party businesses or even the auto manufacturers themselves.

 

[ArunAlec]

Lol,

I've reserved one......

View attachment 86801

Just watched 5th Gear Recharged’s review on TV…… they nearly rolled it!
Worth watching.

 

[ArunAlec]

And solid state batteries are already used for small appliances such as pacemakers. The technology for solid state for large batteries may come fairly soon.

The advantages of solid state batteries are:
- lighter
- faster charging
- more recharges
- greater range

VW is in an alliance with Bill Gates to produce large EV solid state batteries by 2024.

Having had a quick Google for “EV battery life”, I can’t see where the “million mile battery“ has come from? 100,000 miles seems to be the expected/warranty mileage currently.

 

[Hedley Wright]

Having had a quick Google for “EV battery life”, I can’t see where the “million mile battery“ has come from? 100,000 miles seems to be the expected/warranty mileage currently.

What Happens After a ‘Million-Mile Battery’ Outlasts the Car?

Electric-vehicle makers hope to roll out super-long-lasting batteries. That raises interesting questions about resources, performance—and a battery’s second act.

www.wired.com

 

[Wildcamper]

What Happens After a ‘Million-Mile Battery’ Outlasts the Car?

Electric-vehicle makers hope to roll out super-long-lasting batteries. That raises interesting questions about resources, performance—and a battery’s second act.

www.wired.com

As someone been involved in developing battery technology, but now retired, I can't really see the million mile battery being a reality commercially. However, technology moves on so maybe. Assuming such an offering is a reality this is only part of the complete picture. Is the bodywork of the million mile battery vehicle going to last a million miles? Today very very few cars last that long. I had a series 5 BMW that I had to scrap after 500,000 miles. The engine was is great condition but the body work collapsed and some replacement parts started to become less readily available. The 500,000 miles took me nearly 20 years by the way. So with the million mile battery one needs a million mile body, replacement parts and the desire to keep the vehicle for, may be, 40 years! Not sure if this has been well though through.

 

[ArunAlec]

As someone been involved in developing battery technology, but now retired, I can't really see the million mile battery being a reality commercially. However, technology moves on so maybe. Assuming such an offering is a reality this is only part of the complete picture. Is the bodywork of the million mile battery vehicle going to last a million miles? Today very very few cars last that long. I had a series 5 BMW that I had to scrap after 500,000 miles. The was is great condition but the body work collapsed and some replacement parts started to become less readily available. The 500,000 miles took me nearly 20 years by the way. So with the million mile battery one needs a million mile body, replacement parts and the desire to keep the vehicle for, may be, 40 years! Not sure if this has been well though through.

Hate to think what state the Cali’ roof will be in after 1000,000 miles!

 

[clarinetbcn]

As someone been involved in developing battery technology, but now retired, I can't really see the million mile battery being a reality commercially. However, technology moves on so maybe. Assuming such an offering is a reality this is only part of the complete picture. Is the bodywork of the million mile battery vehicle going to last a million miles? Today very very few cars last that long. I had a series 5 BMW that I had to scrap after 500,000 miles. The engine was is great condition but the body work collapsed and some replacement parts started to become less readily available. The 500,000 miles took me nearly 20 years by the way. So with the million mile battery one needs a million mile body, replacement parts and the desire to keep the vehicle for, may be, 40 years! Not sure if this has been well though through.

You might find it interesting to read the article, as a large part of it talks about the second and third uses of these batteries being developed by GM and Tesla, once they outlast the original vehicle. The second and third uses are included in the original design.

Repurposing is already happening with today's EV batteries.

Second Life: Carmakers and Storage Startups Get Serious About Reusing Batteries

Batteries still have a lot of life in them after being swapped out of EVs. Why not use them on the grid?

www.greentechmedia.com

 

[GrannyJen]

I was stood outside Battersea power station last week, making my video on "my London Thames".

1/3rd of the Nation's capital was dependent on the energy it produced whilst belching out toxic clouds of coal smoke, in a country whose wealth was built on coal, who's millions of citizens heated with coal fires, with millions dependent on the coal economy.

Smog of '52, Clean air act of '56, coal phased out, no arguments. The prophets of doom rising up everywhere.

No one went cold, no lights went out, no one starved, the economy did not collapse because of it.

If it has to happen then answers will be found.

 

[reserves]

And solid state batteries are already used for small appliances such as pacemakers. The technology for solid state for large batteries may come fairly soon.

The advantages of solid state batteries are:
- lighter
- faster charging
- more recharges
- greater range

VW is in an alliance with Bill Gates to produce large EV solid state batteries by 2024.

As someone been involved in developing battery technology, but now retired, I can't really see the million mile battery being a reality commercially. However, technology moves on so maybe. Assuming such an offering is a reality this is only part of the complete picture. Is the bodywork of the million mile battery vehicle going to last a million miles? Today very very few cars last that long. I had a series 5 BMW that I had to scrap after 500,000 miles. The engine was is great condition but the body work collapsed and some replacement parts started to become less readily available. The 500,000 miles took me nearly 20 years by the way. So with the million mile battery one needs a million mile body, replacement parts and the desire to keep the vehicle for, may be, 40 years! Not sure if this has been well though through.

Batteries have many uses, just for not the original car.

 

[WelshGas]

I was stood outside Battersea power station last week, making my video on "my London Thames".

1/3rd of the Nation's capital was dependent on the energy it produced whilst belching out toxic clouds of coal smoke, in a country whose wealth was built on coal, who's millions of citizens heated with coal fires, with millions dependent on the coal economy.

Smog of '52, Clean air act of '56, coal phased out, no arguments. The prophets of doom rising up everywhere.

No one went cold, no lights went out, no one starved, the economy did not collapse because of it.

If it has to happen then answers will be found.

A little simplistic. Battersea was replaced by power stations outside London and 100's of miles of power cables strung across the countryside to serve London.

When was the last time Gas and Coal supplies were cut off due to storm damage?

I think those who have had no electricity for the past 8 days following Storm Arwen would have a few things to say about our dash for green electricity.

 

[clarinetbcn]

It's not a dash for green electricity, it's an attempt to correct the selfish path of trashing the future of today's children by not being willing to put up with some transitional discomfort now. What will they say about us when they are adults? Right now it seems likely to be, "How could they?" and "What were they thinking?" In fact, some of them are saying it right now, and get abuse heaped on them by the "adults" who are in charge.