4Motion - high price

[Legin]

Almost. Its just not the significant part. Formula is Force = coefficient of friction x N where N is to all intents the mass. COF is constant. As explained above the delta due to eg 100kg mass is negligible vs drivetrain friction and other factors like wind drag. Add a passenger and virtually no change in fuel consumption for instance.
This assumes a constant velocity.
In situations where the mass is continually accelerated at low velocity it will make a tangible difference ie in town. So I would expect the gap between 4wd and 2wd to close as speed increases due to the drag going up power 4 to velocity and normally at a constant velocity on the motorway so no power consumed in accelerating formula is F = ma ie mass x acceleration. No acceleration then no Force.

 

[California4x4]

Almost. Its just not the significant part. Formula is Force = coefficient of friction x N where N is to all intents the mass. COF is constant. As explained above the delta due to eg 100kg mass is negligible vs drivetrain friction and other factors like wind drag. Add a passenger and virtually no change in fuel consumption for instance.
This assumes a constant velocity.
In situations where the mass is continually accelerated at low velocity it will make a tangible difference ie in town. So I would expect the gap between 4wd and 2wd to close as speed increases due to the drag going up power 4 to velocity and normally at a constant velocity on the motorway so no power consumed in accelerating formula is F = ma ie mass x acceleration. No acceleration then no Force.

This sounds convincing to me.

 

[WelshGas]

Almost. Its just not the significant part. Formula is Force = coefficient of friction x N where N is to all intents the mass. COF is constant. As explained above the delta due to eg 100kg mass is negligible vs drivetrain friction and other factors like wind drag. Add a passenger and virtually no change in fuel consumption for instance.
This assumes a constant velocity.
In situations where the mass is continually accelerated at low velocity it will make a tangible difference ie in town. So I would expect the gap between 4wd and 2wd to close as speed increases due to the drag going up power 4 to velocity and normally at a constant velocity on the motorway so no power consumed in accelerating formula is F = ma ie mass x acceleration. No acceleration then no Force.

I must admit I specialised in another area of physics, but understand a little of your explanation.
However, would Fuel consumption between 2 identical vehicles, both loaded to an identical MGW but with 1 vehicle having FWD and the other AWD be more or less dissimilar in normal use, not straight line, constant speed.?
Because I’m sure VW when undertaking fuel consumption tests do not have their test vehicles at MGW or constant speed.

 

[Legin]

The AWD will always be worse all other things equal because there are the pumping losses of one bevel differential and the rear hypoid diff thrashing the oil around and generating heat because they rotate all the time irrespective of torque transfer. The mechanical losses in bevel gears are quite high.
Have a look at the latest Audi AWD drive train design which in such a manner that almost nothing spins when there is no demand for torque transfer.

The test always used to be simulated on a rolling road ( I have witnessed these) but this was before all the new real world tests where they strap stuff onto tail pipe and drive real roads.

 

[Legin]

New Audi quattro ultra four-wheel drive system detailed | Autocar

New, more efficient version of Audi's quattro four-wheel drive system will be seen first on the upcoming A4 Allroad estate

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[Aubisque]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned the constraint that you can’t spec or add subsequently a fifth seat in a 4WD Cali Ocean as it takes over the weight limit and so the required seat rail to do it is missing.
That’s what swung it for me, I knew I would use a fifth seat more than I would use 4WD.
And been fine with FWD on all season rubber in snowy Scotland and Alps etc, and use traction mats on very muddy campsites that work well.

 

[PhilR]

Almost. Its just not the significant part. Formula is Force = coefficient of friction x N where N is to all intents the mass. COF is constant. As explained above the delta due to eg 100kg mass is negligible vs drivetrain friction and other factors like wind drag. Add a passenger and virtually no change in fuel consumption for instance.
This assumes a constant velocity.
In situations where the mass is continually accelerated at low velocity it will make a tangible difference ie in town. So I would expect the gap between 4wd and 2wd to close as speed increases due to the drag going up power 4 to velocity and normally at a constant velocity on the motorway so no power consumed in accelerating formula is F = ma ie mass x acceleration. No acceleration then no Force.

Thanks. Easy choice now then....

 

[kave]

A good friend of mine had a very similar T6 to ours, 204 with DSG. Ours is 4motion and his was 2wd. We often drove up to swedish mountains together in the winter and noticed no difference in consumption at all.

 

[California4x4]

A good friend of mine had a very similar T6 to ours, 204 with DSG. Ours is 4motion and his was 2wd. We often drove up to swedish mountains together in the winter and noticed no difference in consumption at all.

That’s interesting. One of the few direct comparison I’ve heard of. It’s particularly impressive as I assume you had to tow your friend out of the snow multiple times along the route through the mountains?

 

[kave]

Of course not. I was able to drive all the way to the cabin while he where not. Also we used mine to go all the way up to the top. Both on winter tyres.

 

[Legin]

New Audi quattro ultra four-wheel drive system detailed | Autocar

New, more efficient version of Audi's quattro four-wheel drive system will be seen first on the upcoming A4 Allroad estate

www.autocar.co.uk

Audi statement of the efficiency benefits look like about 3% so at a guess this is the penalty for conventional AWD give or take.

 

[California4x4]

Thanks. Easy choice now then....

It’s one week since your question and there are 7 pages of personal opinion, anecdotal evidence and some maths. I’m interested, what was your gut instinct when you asked the question and what is your current opinion? If you don’t mind sharing.

 

[PhilR]

It’s one week since your question and there are 7 pages of persons opinion, anecdotal evidence and some maths. I’m interested, what was your gut instinct when you asked the question and what is your current opinion? If you don’t mind sharing.

Yes this is a rather good forum isn’t it, I wasn’t expecting such a response!! To be honest, even though I’m now 50+ I like a bit of power. We had a Peugeot 406 estate many years ago. There was a choice between 90 or 110bhp and we plumped for the 90 in the end. But we regretted that a bit. It was quite slow. It felt very slow. I’ve just looked and the 0-60 was 14.6 seconds, so that puts me off the 150. Regarding the original query, I would definitely just get 4WD if there wasn’t a significant cost involved. However, we’ve done some thinking, and reading on here, and we have a plan to not book any holidays other than campervan trips for the next 3 years or so. With the money we’ll save on not going on cruises/ USA trips (like we used to) that will more than cover the difference and in fact, even my wife has said we should get the 199 and 4WD. So if she says that......what am I supposed to do
Certainly don’t want to have any regrets.

 

[kave]

Great news. Say no to torque steer

 

[SusiBus]

Hi Phil,
Now you've justified to yourself the extra cost, get that order in. Build dates are getting further and further away. As I said in an earlier post, don't have a plain cake, have the icing on the top as well. You'll never regret it. Promise you.

 

[PhilR]

Hi Phil,
Now you've justified to yourself the extra cost, get that order in. Build dates are getting further and further away. As I said in an earlier post, don't have a plain cake, have the icing on the top as well. You'll never regret it. Promise you.

Yes we’re getting close now. The company car goes back at the end of April so we were aiming for around then ideally, but if I had my way I’d just order one as soon as possible. We are hiring one in 2 weeks time. Strangely enough I contacted Leicester van centre today to check the spec of the hire vehicle (as I suddenly had a horrible thought that I didn’t check it was an Ocean!) - they confirmed it is a 6.1 Ocean 199 DSG!!! In a way i was looking forward to it being a 150 to see how it performs, but my wife is dead against the 150 anyway so testing the 199 will be great. Not sure if it’s 4M though. They didn’t say it was.
As soon as we’ve had 48 hours in the 199 I’m sure we’re going to be in a position to order. Just have to find the best deal/dealer. If we order at the end of August it may take until March or April anyway by the sound of things.

 

[SusiBus]

Hi Phil,
If you order in August, there is a July/Aug Tactical Support contribution of £500 from VW. This may not be available in the next quarter, due to the fact of VW having full order books at the moment.
There is also a free Care Package for retail customers. This includes 2 free services, and a 4-year 120,000 mile warranty.
You can upgrade this warranty to a 5-year 80,000 miles for £44. Bargain!
If you order now, you can protect yourself against future price increases, and can specify a handover date in April.

 

[PhilR]

Hi Phil,
If you order in August, there is a July/Aug Tactical Support contribution of £500 from VW. This may not be available in the next quarter, due to the fact of VW having full order books at the moment.
There is also a free Care Package for retail customers. This includes 2 free services, and a 4-year 120,000 mile warranty.
You can upgrade this warranty to a 5-year 80,000 miles for £44. Bargain!
If you order now, you can protect yourself against future price increases, and can specify a handover date in April.

Oh that’s interesting, thank you! The 2 services and the 5 year warranty are certainly desirable, as is the ability to defer handover until April, although once I know it’s in the country or at the dealers I’m not going to want to wait then!!
So it looks like I’ll have to move quickly on finding a dealer that will do me a decent deal then. I’ve looked at Drive the Deal and can get 10.5% off with them. They seem to get good reviews on here and elsewhere so I wouldn’t have a problem using them, but if one of the van dealers can do something similar I’d rather do it that way. I will probably want a few dealer fitted options such as wheels, tyres, running boards, bike rack etc.
I’m more than happy to travel to a dealer too. We bought a previous car from Perth. I’ll speak to the sales team at Leicester when we return the hire vehicle, give them chance to come up with a deal. I know it’s not a buyers market but I’m sure they would still want to get my custom. A 199 Ocean DSG 4M with a few extras is a decent sale for them I would have thought!
Ps. Are those contributions/incentives dependant on us taking VW finance?

 

[SusiBus]

Oh that’s interesting, thank you! The 2 services and the 5 year warranty are certainly desirable, as is the ability to defer handover until April, although once I know it’s in the country or at the dealers I’m not going to want to wait then!!
So it looks like I’ll have to move quickly on finding a dealer that will do me a decent deal then. I’ve looked at Drive the Deal and can get 10.5% off with them. They seem to get good reviews on here and elsewhere so I wouldn’t have a problem using them, but if one of the van dealers can do something similar I’d rather do it that way. I will probably want a few dealer fitted options such as wheels, tyres, running boards, bike rack etc.
I’m more than happy to travel to a dealer too. We bought a previous car from Perth. I’ll speak to the sales team at Leicester when we return the hire vehicle, give them chance to come up with a deal. I know it’s not a buyers market but I’m sure they would still want to get my custom. A 199 Ocean DSG 4M with a few extras is a decent sale for them I would have thought!
Ps. Are those contributions/incentives dependant on us taking VW finance?

Not dependent on VW finance.

 

[2into1]

What are people ordering now being told about possible import duties when the transition agreement ends? I'm not asking for thoughts as to whether we'll get a duty free trade deal, but if we don't and say 10% is applied, will vw suck them up (for existing orders as you have an agreed price), or do you have the right to walk away?

 

[Adamvanman]

If you can afford it go for it, you won't regret it, just like LED lights, DSG and ACC, once you have had these you will wonder how you ever survived without them before.

 

[WelshGas]

If you can afford it go for it, you won't regret it, just like LED lights, DSG and ACC, once you have had these you will wonder how you ever survived without them before.

I think those are all standard on the T6. 1.

 

[subthree]

You can upgrade this warranty to a 5-year 80,000 miles for £44. Bargain!

We collected our T6.1 in July and we given a 4-year warranty as well. However when I inquired about upgrading to a 5-year warranty I was told I would need to pay the "usual" 2-year extension of £329. I have not yet extended the warranty to 5 years but plan to shortly. Which dealer stated it is just £44 for the one extra year?

 

[subthree]

I think those are all standard on the T6. 1.

They are all standard on UK specified Oceans, or at least they are on our 6.1.

 

[PhilR]

If you can afford it go for it, you won't regret it, just like LED lights, DSG and ACC, once you have had these you will wonder how you ever survived without them before.

As others have said, these are now standard. I’ve got DSG and ACC on the Passat now and they’re fab. I’d pay extra for both of those, so it’s nice to not have to. LED lights are s bonus.