4Motion - high price

[PhilR]

Just go for it @PhilR ...
If I ever replace my current van, changing to a 4M is the only extra I would want over my current set-up...

Thanks! Just been talking to my wife about all the replies and what the general consensus is - I said it’s mixed and it’s our choice. However, I’ve not read one negative by anyone who’s got 4M so it’s looking like our favoured option right now. Also I’ve been “discussing” 150 v 199 on a Facebook page and although many people favour the 150, the 199 with 4M, despite being £6k more than the 150 in 2WD is looking good for us. We have never had a camper so it’s a gamble of sorts but we are pretty sure it’s going to suit our lifestyle perfectly. If for some reason it doesn’t, a 199 4M with decent spec is hopefully going to be quite desirable secondhand.
Thanks to all for the replies. What a great forum this is.

 

[soulstyledevon]

The only reason not to have 4M, is fuel consumption.
However, if you’re spending £60k+ on a leisure vehicle. An extra £50/60 month on fuel is water off a ducks back...

 

[California4x4]

Thanks! Just been talking to my wife about all the replies and what the general consensus is - I said it’s mixed and it’s our choice. However, I’ve not read one negative by anyone who’s got 4M so it’s looking like our favoured option right now. Also I’ve been “discussing” 150 v 199 on a Facebook page and although many people favour the 150, the 199 with 4M, despite being £6k more than the 150 in 2WD is looking good for us. We have never had a camper so it’s a gamble of sorts but we are pretty sure it’s going to suit our lifestyle perfectly. If for some reason it doesn’t, a 199 4M with decent spec is hopefully going to be quite desirable secondhand.
Thanks to all for the replies. What a great forum this is.

Nobody mentioned that factor. Does it pass the wife/partner test!!!! The whole package ends up making a super expensive vehicle. That tends to only hurt twice at the point of buying and at the point of re selling. I suspect there will be many times in between where you smugly smile to yourself that it was the right decision in between. Good luck.

 

[Eber123]

Good morning,

As part of planning to purchase a vehicle I try to get an overview of follow up costs e.g. insurance, tax, yearly service.

4motion has pros and cons (as it is discussed here in detail), I asked myself the following:

• Additonal cost for fuel (discussed here in lenght)
• What are the service cost (oel, parts etc.) on a yearly basis?
• How reliable is 4motion over the years?
• What are potential repair costs?

What I am trying to say is, what could be the potential follow up cost during the lifetime of the camper. Will der be another source of high cost service or repair after warranty? The California is a nice machine but it seems to me that there is also a lot that could go wrong, which all comes with a high cost. 4motion might add another source of potential expensive repair bill.

Happy California,
Eberhard

 

[WelshGas]

Good morning,

As part of planning to purchase a vehicle I try to get an overview of follow up costs e.g. insurance, tax, yearly service.

4motion has pros and cons (as it is discussed here in detail), I asked myself the following:

• Additonal cost for fuel (discussed here in lenght)
• What are the service cost (oel, parts etc.) on a yearly basis?
• How reliable is 4motion over the years?
• What are potential repair costs?

What I am trying to say is, what could be the potential follow up cost during the lifetime of the camper. Will der be another source of high cost service or repair after warranty? The California is a nice machine but it seems to me that there is also a lot that could go wrong, which all comes with a high cost. 4motion might add another source of potential expensive repair bill.

Happy California,
Eberhard

If you read other VW T5/6 Forums, problems with Clutch/flywheel and manual gearboxes seem more prevalent than DSG and 4Motion drive systems.

 

[Eber123]

Good moring,

I haven't followed in detail other Forums because I don't do any research at the moment (I am happy as it is with my camper), but could it be that there are far more T5/T6 Transporter with manual clutch and no 4motion?

I don't want to open the Pandora Box, but I like to believe that the 150 HP engine with the manual clutch is the most reliable and less repair expensive combination compare to other options from the T5/T6/T6.1 model series.

Of course this is only my believe and not really based on deep research (just a wee bit) and even maybe wishfull thinking.

Happy California,
Eberhard

 

[Bellcrew]

Good morning,

As part of planning to purchase a vehicle I try to get an overview of follow up costs e.g. insurance, tax, yearly service.

4motion has pros and cons (as it is discussed here in detail), I asked myself the following:

• Additonal cost for fuel (discussed here in lenght)
• What are the service cost (oel, parts etc.) on a yearly basis?
• How reliable is 4motion over the years?
• What are potential repair costs?

What I am trying to say is, what could be the potential follow up cost during the lifetime of the camper. Will der be another source of high cost service or repair after warranty? The California is a nice machine but it seems to me that there is also a lot that could go wrong, which all comes with a high cost. 4motion might add another source of potential expensive repair bill.

Happy California,
Eberhard

It all depends on the depth of your pocket and the mysterious cool factor. The off-road potential of the Cali is of course limited by the standard entry and exit angles and the laughable axle articulation figures.
Fitting a set of those butch all terrain tyres will enable a two wheel drive Cali claw off any farmers field this side of the Alps, probably.
I must admit the £20 for a nice chrome 4x4 badge sounds like a decent option though.

 

[B J G]

I'm guessing those 35mpg's in a 204/199 4 motion are computer figures (therefore 31.5 real) or down hill. I think it's only fair to let potential buyers know there is a hit to mpg with a full-fat Cali.

33.5 mpg on last run back from France (Friday) also has Pendle remap to 255PS so no slouching but legal speeds. 31.8 mpg going the other way which had a 20 minute backroad diversion on French side.

 

[Shane080775]

Just trying to spec up our ideal first ever campervan. I thought I’d go for 4WD but at £3,246 + £750 for diff lock (to get the best out of it) + £120 Hill descent adds up to a whopping £4116
As much as I think it would be useful, even then I’d really need winter tyres anyway at further cost. Then there’s the additional fuel costs. It’s not really selling itself to me at this stage! I’ve read all the threads about it and it seems that those that have it love it, and those that don’t are probably thinking like I am!
so is it worth £4116?

I have the 200 bhp with dsg on my Cali and the traction is great so no I don’t think you need to spend the money
and I drive it quick

 

[Legin]

Really. I drove a 150 dsg 2wd and the traction was very poor so 200 must be worse. Got to smile, folks saying i only needed it 3 or 4 times so not worth it yet I never use my abs brakes but wouldnt be without it for the one time I do need it.
To the OP try a 2wd and nail it in the wet if your still unconvinced 4wd will be a benefit to you stick with 2wd. If you can afford it and payload isnt an issue then its worth it for the slippery grass situation imo but this is an opinion not a fact.

 

[WelshGas]

I have the 200 bhp with dsg on my Cali and the traction is great so no I don’t think you need to spend the money
and I drive it quick

Not as quick as the 4Motion equivalent.

 

[PhilR]

...To the OP try a 2wd and nail it in the wet if your still unconvinced 4wd will be a benefit to you stick with 2wd. If you can afford it and payload isnt an issue then its worth it for the slippery grass situation imo but this is an opinion not a fact.

Cheers. Will do. Got one for 2 days in a couple of weeks. It will probably rain

 

[Nomis]

The 4 motion only comes on when its needed, so I cant see that the fuel consumption would be much increased on normal driving. I have the 4wd. Its more like an insurance policy for me , gives confidence to go down lanes or pull on verges that could be a bit risky. The only time I know that it came on for sure was getting out of my own muddy driveway a couple of times...

 

[WelshGas]

The 4 motion only comes on when its needed, so I cant see that the fuel consumption would be much increased on normal driving. I have the 4wd. Its more like an insurance policy for me , gives confidence to go down lanes or pull on verges that could be a bit risky. The only time I know that it came on for sure was getting out of my own muddy driveway a couple of times...

Not quit correct. The split is 40 - 60 front to rear on the Transporter and varies from that point depending on traction requirements.

4MOTION All-Wheel-Drive Technology | VW Vans

Explore the Volkswagen’s 4MOTION technology, designed to maintain traction while off-road with improved road holding and safety in poor surface conditions

www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk

 

[WelshGas]

NB; with regards to fuel consumption the 4Motion is some 100kgms heavier than the equivalent FWD vehicle, But if both vehicles are loaded to their MGW. Which is the same for comparable vehicles, only the load capacity is different, then fuel consumptions are very similar.

 

[Velma's Dad]

NB; with regards to fuel consumption the 4Motion is some 100kgms heavier than the equivalent FWD vehicle, But if both vehicles are loaded to their MGW. Which is the same for comparable vehicles, only the load capacity is different, then fuel consumptions are very similar.

The official figures for the 199 are, I think: 30.1 to 33.2 mpg for 2WD, 28.8 to 31.4 mpg for 4-Motion. That would imply around a 1.5 mpg (5%) 'penalty' for 4-Mo. On that basis, unless daily driver/high mileages, pretty insignificant as a factor in overall owning/running costs. I do about £7k/year in our van so 4-Mo would only cost maybe £50 a year more in fuel.

(Unless VW's claimed figures don't actually relate to real road conditions, of course... )

 

[WelshGas]

The official figures for the 199 are, I think: 30.1 to 33.2 mpg for 2WD, 28.8 to 31.4 mpg for 4-Motion. That would imply around a 1.5 mpg (5%) 'penalty' for 4-Mo. On that basis, unless daily driver/high mileages, pretty insignificant as a factor in overall owning/running costs. I do about £7k/year in our van so 4-Mo would only cost maybe £50 a year more in fuel.

(Unless VW's claimed figures don't actually relate to real road conditions, of course... )

And that difference would be related to the weight differences of the 2 vehicles which would be minimised when loaded to the MGW.

 

[andyinluton]

NB; with regards to fuel consumption the 4Motion is some 100kgms heavier than the equivalent FWD vehicle, But if both vehicles are loaded to their MGW. Which is the same for comparable vehicles, only the load capacity is different, then fuel consumptions are very similar.

I disagree with that, and would suggest the difference in consumption is due the drive train losses with the additional moving parts additional drag of the extra differential etc.
If it was purely down to weight, a 150 coast v 150 ocean has the same percentage weight difference but no difference in consumption.

 

[WelshGas]

I disagree with that, and would suggest the difference in consumption is due the drive train losses with the additional moving parts additional drag of the extra differential etc.
If it was purely down to weight, a 150 coast v 150 ocean has the same percentage weight difference but no difference in consumption.

So you're saying that vehicle weight has no bearing on vehicle performance and fuel consumption?
I agree that the drive train difference might have an effect, but minimal, as would wheel spin, which is virtually impossible with AWD.

 

[andyinluton]

Not just me saying it, Its VW just look at the technical figures in the brochure.

Drive train losses make a huge difference, vehicle weight makes a difference accelerating & braking but insignificant at a constant speed compared to wind resistance on a cali. A torquey diesel engine is less affected by weight than a highly strung low cc petrol engine.

Ocean 150 v Coast 150 only difference that would affect performance is the 3% difference in weight but both show the same consumption

Ocean 199 2wd v 4wd 4% weight difference + all the 4wd gubbins & there is a difference in consumption.

The difference in weight is only one overweight passenger & is a relatively small percentage of the overall weight.

I actually suspect the gearing on the current 4motions has changed compared to the 2wd. Historicaly the 4motion was always about 0.8sec slower to 60 than the 2wd with the same engine, the current version is quicker.

 

[2into1]

I'm normally in agreement with WG but this Maximum loaded weight is a bit of red herring.... Because you could say an Ocean doesn't carry a weight premium (therefore fuel consumption premium) over a Beach because you can carry less 'luggage' in an ocean vs the beach before hitting the max weight.
The only logical comparison is each vehicle with the same amount of passengers / fuel / luggage.

The losses in Mpg in a 4motion is a combination of drive friction and added weight. We had a spate of many 4motion owners saying they were struggling to get much past 25mpg. I'm not suggesting that's typical, but you don't see 150 2wd owners having the same struggles.
Non of this is an argument as to the merits of a 4motion.

 

[andyinluton]

More of a consideration would be the servicing of the additional diff & the relatively high number of failures

 

[Legin]

NB; with regards to fuel consumption the 4Motion is some 100kgms heavier than the equivalent FWD vehicle, But if both vehicles are loaded to their MGW. Which is the same for comparable vehicles, only the load capacity is different, then fuel consumptions are very similar.

Man maths at its finest.

 

[WelshGas]

Man maths at its finest.

Of course.

 

[WelshGas]

If the general consensus is that weight does not play a part in the performance difference between 2 vehicles with the same engine bhp/gearbox/body shape and that it is all down to the FWD/AWD friction then I've learn't something new. Or have I?