Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Elmo3]

New Ocean picked up just over a week ago. 04SA, 13/12/23. Not had chance to use the roof up to now. Noticed a few spots where daylight comes through. This is our 4th Cali, not seen this before. Anyone else observed this on the latest bellows? Seems I need to get it out in some rain…

 

[markbrown83]

New Ocean picked up just over a week ago. 04SA, 13/12/23. Not had chance to use the roof up to now. Noticed a few spots where daylight comes through. This is our 4th Cali, not seen this before. Anyone else observed this on the latest bellows? Seems I need to get it out in some rain…

View attachment 120567View attachment 120568

We have the same holes in pretty much the same place. Leaks seem to come from high up but I'm sure it's not helping the situation.

When the sun hits the bellows at the right angle you'll probably see many more.

 

[Betsycalifornia]

Does anyone with a leaking 04S have a picture from the outside when it’s leaking through to the inside?

Thought I’d join the fun this morning and give my 03S a little workout…as I mentioned I suspect mine may have been treated with a water repellant coating at the dealership as it hasn’t leaked in quite a few tests now. Interested to know if anyone else’s beads water in the same way mine does?

View attachment 120521

My 03S does the same as yours.

 

[stationmaster]

Does anyone with a leaking 04S have a picture from the outside when it’s leaking through to the inside?

Thought I’d join the fun this morning and give my 03S a little workout…as I mentioned I suspect mine may have been treated with a water repellant coating at the dealership as it hasn’t leaked in quite a few tests now. Interested to know if anyone else’s beads water in the same way mine does?

View attachment 120521

Mine beads much the same as yours - 04S A

 

[California T2023]

Anyone had any 4S post 9/11 replacement bellows installed that are preforming ok and don’t leak?

 

[Corradobrit]

Anyone had any 4S post 9/11 replacement bellows installed that are preforming ok and don’t leak?

1 person (6.7%) according the poll. Pretty poor result IMHO, for a revised product that has a simple job to do. This is not rocket science or brain surgery.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Probably worth saying at this stage that there are a lot of inconclusive results in that poll and those with issues are likely to home in on it, vs any new van owners who have come here for different reasons and may be oblivious.

I am concerned at what I’m reading around the 04S performance but I am going to run with mine for the time being and see how I get on before drawing any conclusions.

 

[California T2023]

I’m awaiting second replacement set fitting in 2 weeks, 1st set of 4S fitted pre 9/11 leaked inn light rain no wind conditions. How many people are on the poll?

 

[RockinNRollin]

I’m awaiting second replacement set fitting in 2 weeks, 1st set of 4S fitted pre 9/11 leaked inn light rain no wind conditions. How many people are on the poll?

15 so far

 

[markbrown83]

I think we have had the latest dated bellows mentioned so far - 17/01/24 and they leak.

All vertical seams not horizontal. So far.

My confidence in future bellows being a fix is low unless a 05S version comes out.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

I have to say this doesn’t fill me with confidence. I have a 72 plate Cali and it was one of the last ones with the old bellows. Last week I just secured a deal to buy a new build Cali with all the VW offers and incentives which turns out to be a nearly no cost decision to change - a no brainier I was telling myself!? - especially as the bellows issue has been sorted ( me thinks and reassured by dealer!) . I’m thinking a 24 model with the production run coming to an end will be sought after second hand …I’m now thinking my 22 model may be more of a catch after all? My ideal scenario would be to have my current bellows swoped for the new ones on collection but we all know that’s not going to happen.
The optimist in me has to think of this awful situation is that all over Europe , where it’s been raining a lot recently, VW will be swamped with complaints and will have to re think their fix. Even on the new multivan Cali of the future they will need bellows and I’m sure the suppliers will be the same. So ..it will get sorted and we all have a 5 year warranty period for that fix to materialise and ideally may even be subject to recall Or at least being on this site we are all better informed if an upgrade will become available.
We all don’t intend to go campervanning when its raining and let’s look forward to adventures in the sun but in the meantime when it does rain and there’s an issue, use a thin Cali topper as a pop top ‘raincoat’ and can be stored without issue whilst waiting for the fix, that HAS to materialise and in the meantime ENJOY our wonderful vehicles , as that’s exactly what they are, although I totally understand why all of you on wet campsites this weekend may not be feeling the for your Cali just yet. Remember the best relationships take time to forge!

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I think we have had the latest dated bellows mentioned so far - 17/01/24 and they leak.

All vertical seams not horizontal. So far.

My confidence in future bellows being a fix is low unless a 05S version comes out.

Yes they seem to have added black tape in the horizontal seams but not the vertical seams in the 04S. Not all have shown signs of leakage though so definitely an improvement over 03S. To be fair to them most of the leaks were in the horizontal seams so I can see why they would target the modification like this, but why don’t they test their product properly before sending it out? They just need to tape the vertical seams too and that should provide a product that works ok. Roll on 05S bellows and that being the end of all this! Once again thankful we’ll be looked after by Breeze should ours have issues, the best dealer out there IMO. We have no concerns, just hoping the message gets through to VW so there actually is a 05S on the way….

 

[markbrown83]

I’m not sure a hope that an actual fixed version is on the way is enough for me to hold on to it… it’s a really tough decision.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I’m not sure a hope that an actual fixed version is on the way is enough for me to hold on to it… it’s a really tough decision.

This is exactly where we were last year with the 03S. I’m a lot more optimistic than I was last year now though. I don’t really know why…

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I’m not sure a hope that an actual fixed version is on the way is enough for me to hold on to it… it’s a really tough decision.

Do you have any other vans in mind Mark?

 

[markbrown83]

Do you have any other vans in mind Mark?

Well, I think we decided it wouldn’t have a pop top next time around.

A little unsure to be honest at the moment.

The reason we went for the Cali was due to its size. It can go anywhere especially once you’ve added 4motion and diff lock (which we did). I also raised my worry regarding the bellow issue at the start of the process and was told ours would come with the fixed bellows.

If I had known otherwise I’d have cancelled my order.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Do you have any other vans in mind Mark?

This issue caused me to rethink the whole issue of bellow per se. I appreciate that most bellows don't leak, but there are other compromises with them. Such as not being able to put them up in very high winds, issues of bedding touching them and getting wet and of course many have issues getting in and out of them.

They of course do solve issues such as giving more space in smaller vehicles, and easily adding 2 extra berths but the no1 requirement on my replacement list was moving away from bellows.

 

[markbrown83]

I was talking to my cousin earlier. I don’t think it’s a case that these pop tops aren’t waterproof. The issue is they aren’t water tight. There’s a big difference.

 

[Corradobrit]

The optimist in me has to think of this awful situation is that all over Europe , where it’s been raining a lot recently, VW will be swamped with complaints and will have to re think their fix. Even on the new multivan Cali of the future they will need bellows and I’m sure the suppliers will be the same. So ..it will get sorted and we all have a 5 year warranty period for that fix to materialise

Only 2 years warranty in Europe

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Well, I think we decided it wouldn’t have a pop top next time around.

A little unsure to be honest at the moment.

The reason we went for the Cali was due to its size. It can go anywhere especially once you’ve added 4motion and diff lock (which we did). I also raised my worry regarding the bellow issue at the start of the process and was told ours would come with the fixed bellows.

If I had known otherwise I’d have cancelled my order.

It’s certainly a tough call and I wouldn’t blame you one bit for rejecting it, I tried it myself. Since then I’ve tried to reconnect with my van and reflected on all the reasons I chose it over the other options and have got some excitement back again…all of those reasons are still valid even if the bellows situation has been an absolute mess. If you’re set on camper life then definitely have a look around at what other vans are out there before taking a decision, it may help guide you.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Yes they seem to have added black tape in the horizontal seams but not the vertical seams in the 04S. Not all have shown signs of leakage though so definitely an improvement over 03S. To be fair to them most of the leaks were in the horizontal seams so I can see why they would target the modification like this, but why don’t they test their product properly before sending it out? They just need to tape the vertical seams too and that should provide a product that works ok. Roll on 05S bellows and that being the end of all this! Once again thankful we’ll be looked after by Breeze should ours have issues, the best dealer out there IMO. We have no concerns, just hoping the message gets through to VW so there actually is a 05S on the way….

I think the Zip seams are different in that if water gets under the flaps then it penetrates through the zip itself, not the seams either side.

 

[Corradobrit]

I think the Zip seams are different in that if water gets under the flaps then it penetrates through the zip itself, not the seams either side.

In my case and many others its comes in through the seam not the zips teeth.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I think the Zip seams are different in that if water gets under the flaps then it penetrates through the zip itself, not the seams either side.

There’s a vertical seam in the corners of the bellows next to the zips. That’s the one that leaks. Our second 03S leaked there too.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

In my case and many others its comes in through the seam not the zips teeth.

You sure you can tell that? Once it's coming through the zip it's going to soak across the inner seam, drip and get worse with any wicking effect.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

@CaliforniaCylus what’s the latest with your van?