Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[GreenMissile]

Given the reported failures on the latest bellows by several new owners I am going to test ours more extensively today
My original test earlier in the week was only for a few hours in moderate rain.
We have rain forecast for most of today, so the top is now up.
I may also use a hosepipe on a sprinkler setting to simulate more rain if we only get light showers.

Good luck, hope you have a successful outcome.

 

[markbrown83]

Sorry to hear the bellows are leaking.

Just a thought on the heater. Were you using the heater in Immediate Mode?

I read this post a while back that suggests the heater won't restart in Immediate Mode after it has shut itself down unless you take the van for a drive.. Needs to be in Continuous Mode.
Not sure if this is the case but I thought I would mention it.

How do i reset the auxiliary heater?

hi, I stayed on a site last night for the first time, the weather was pretty grotty and it was mighty cold. I had the heater on for a short time then it failed. I was using the key fob to start it and now rather than a signle flash of the green light when i try to start it it flashes multiple...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

That's exactly the case. Very annoying. I was just using the remote from bed

Couldn't exactly drop the pop top in the rain and go for a drive at 10pm to reset the van. Another VW fail.

 

[markbrown83]

I'm also glad I got this from the dealer / brand (as they call it).

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I'm also glad I got this from the dealer / brand (as they call it).

View attachment 120518

That’s really helpful. They need to realise the new design of bellows still leaks. The fact it has the same part number as the faulty variant, I can see themselves chasing their tail with this one.

 

[Paul1]

It must be a worry for Cali hire companies some who are members of this forum. Customers wont be happy with wet beds. Will they have more sway and put more pressure on VW to sort this than the private owner due to compensating and costs to their business?

 

[lohr500]

That's exactly the case. Very annoying. I was just using the remote from bed

Couldn't exactly drop the pop top in the rain and go for a drive at 10pm to reset the van. Another VW fail.

If it is a safety feature, then I am not sure it is a fail.

However, I think Breeze told me that the remote control will enable the heater in whatever mode was last used. So perhaps, set Continuous Mode on the panel and then try the remote?

 

[stationmaster]

If it is a safety feature, then I am not sure it is a fail.

However, I think Breeze told me that the remote control will enable the heater in whatever mode was last used. So perhaps, set Continuous Mode on the panel and then try the remote?

Pretty sure this is correct.

Remote turns on the heater in the mode last used. Kind of makes sense when you get your head round it

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Does anyone with a leaking 04S have a picture from the outside when it’s leaking through to the inside?

Thought I’d join the fun this morning and give my 03S a little workout…as I mentioned I suspect mine may have been treated with a water repellant coating at the dealership as it hasn’t leaked in quite a few tests now. Interested to know if anyone else’s beads water in the same way mine does?

 

[lohr500]

Just been spraying the hosepipe on our top and it beads exactly like yours.
No leaks yet apart from when I sprayed the hosepipe through the vents at the top .

But I'm picking up from previous comments that it may take a while for the seams to get waterlogged and then they start leaking.

Proper rain has started again now, so I've stopped with the hose pipe.

 

[flying banana]

I know what I would try to do, even if a long shot.

Given that production of the T6.1 California is about to end, I would at least try, through all forums, to encourage those who don’t want to keep the new bellows (I am sure there are some who do) politely to ask through dealers for the previous bellows fabric/spec to be revived.

It has to have ‘closure’ merit for VW, to offer either the old bellows or for owners to live with what they got.

The old bellows were after all a known product to VW - whether or not they come from a different manufacturer to the new ones.

Dealers must be getting pretty tired of this by now, and they will have considerable clout.

What is my interest? I want to know that I can change my bellows in the future if I need to and I most certainly would not want replacement with these current new bellows in their current leaking state.

when a production run ends aren't they supposed to manufacture spare parts for a certain amount of time afterwards ,people will need spare parts. i worry too about replacing the bellows in future and already caught mine once in the scissors. i don't want that new one though so have left it as it doesn't leak

 

[Viktorgeorge]

when a production run ends aren't they supposed to manufacture spare parts for a certain amount of time afterwards ,people will need spare parts. i worry too about replacing the bellows in future and already caught mine once in the scissors. i don't want that new one though so have left it as it doesn't leak

My worry is exactly that.

I just can’t see how VW can turn this around whilst their teutonic stance on the fabric holds. Ultimately it is unsuitable because of absorption - however much its appearance appeals - and whilst they keep fitting these bellows with this fabric the roofs will fail sooner or later. Fabsil and similar may be a temporary expedient but no more.

if enough owners followed the old master’s rule of ‘never bring me a problem without also bringing me a solution’ with their dealers and VWCS you might get traction to move on from this curse.

Also, to repeat myself, anyone who can identify the actual supplier or suppliers to VW of these bellows (old and new), and where the two fabrics come from, might open the opportunity of a dialogue with them: as an additional pressure point.

That’s my Sunday sermon!

 

[lohr500]

OK, another update. This is on an 04S A bellows dated 10/01/24

After some very light rain over the past hour and five minutes with the hosepipe on sprinkler setting directed at the front panel, leaks have started along both vertical seams.

It looks like capillary action through the seams. If I wipe away the water droplets along the seams, new ones appear until they get heavy enough to drip down onto the inside metal roof panel.

Perhaps I was using too much force from the hosepipe, but I don't think so. I guess I need to continue testing in moderate to heavy rain to reach a final conclusion.

I will log the issue with Breeze though so there is a formal record of the problem. Hopefully they will provide feedback to VW, adding to other new bellows complaints that must be stacking up.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

when a production run ends aren't they supposed to manufacture spare parts for a certain amount of time afterwards ,people will need spare parts. i worry too about replacing the bellows in future and already caught mine once in the scissors. i don't want that new one though so have left it as it doesn't leak

Expect that they will just send the faulty replaced canvas back to the supplier. Supplier will repackage, store and sell on as a replacment canvas a few years later!

(...just joking of course)

 

[Corradobrit]

VW should be reimbursing us for our time, for all this in field beta testing we're doing.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

OK, another update. This is on an 04S A bellows dated 10/01/24

After some very light rain over the past hour and five minutes with the hosepipe on sprinkler setting directed at the front panel, leaks have started along both vertical seams.

It looks like capillary action through the seams. If I wipe away the water droplets along the seams, new ones appear until they get heavy enough to drip down onto the inside metal roof panel.

Perhaps I was using too much force from the hosepipe, but I don't think so. I guess I need to continue testing in moderate to heavy rain to reach a final conclusion.

I will log the issue with Breeze though so there is a formal record of the problem. Hopefully they will provide feedback to VW, adding to other new bellows complaints that must be stacking up.
View attachment 120525View attachment 120526View attachment 120527View attachment 120528

One thing to look out for. The zips on the outside have flaps of material over them to stop water hitting the zip itself, which isn't watertight.

Sometimes these get "folded over" exposing the zip directly to water.

Has that happened on yours?

 

[markbrown83]

One thing to look out for. The zips on the outside have flaps of material over them to stop water hitting the zip itself, which isn't watertight.

Sometimes these get "folded over" exposing the zip directly to water.

Has that happened on yours?

Not on mine. All seemed fine.

 

[markbrown83]

Does anyone with a leaking 04S have a picture from the outside when it’s leaking through to the inside?

Thought I’d join the fun this morning and give my 03S a little workout…as I mentioned I suspect mine may have been treated with a water repellant coating at the dealership as it hasn’t leaked in quite a few tests now. Interested to know if anyone else’s beads water in the same way mine does?

View attachment 120521

I don’t have a photo but before I put the roof down this morning I walked around the van and wiped what I could off. I did notice there was heading mainly towards the bottom.

I felt around the pop top and notice that it felt relatively dry.

I wouldn’t ruled out that a coating has been applied.

 

[stationmaster]

To reject a vehicle do you just tell the dealer to start the process? Obviously I’ll be sending an email today with the photos but is it a simple thing?

Presumably it’s a legal right and should be accepted?

Previous posts have pretty much covered the law side of things - you may also have legal advice helplines and legal dispute cover attached to your home or car insurance. Both may be useful?

As with any matter of this nature, a lot depends on the other party. A good dealership will deal with the matter amicably and in a straight forward manner. A poor dealership will not.

My take on it is that it not actually the dealer who is responsible for the issue - it is VW.

Life is better when we can all be friendly/polite/respectful to each other. Sometimes this is not possible - which is why we have laws and the court system

 

[stationmaster]

Previous posts have pretty much covered the law side of things - you may also have legal advice helplines and legal dispute cover attached to your home or car insurance. Both may be useful?

As with any matter of this nature, a lot depends on the other party. A good dealership will deal with the matter amicably and in a straight forward manner. A poor dealership will not.

My take on it is that it not actually the dealer who is responsible for the issue - it is VW.

Life is better when we can all be friendly/polite/respectful to each other. Sometimes this is not possible - which is why we have laws and the court system

It is a legal right. And should be accepted.

 

[lohr500]

One thing to look out for. The zips on the outside have flaps of material over them to stop water hitting the zip itself, which isn't watertight.

Sometimes these get "folded over" exposing the zip directly to water.

Has that happened on yours?

Thanks for mentioning this.

I spotted the material covering the zips and on one side the flap was folded over.
But the water was leaking through the seam higher up than where the flap was folded.
And on the other side, the flap was correctly positioned, but still the seam leaked.

As well as some leakage through the zip seams, there is also more leakage through the vertical seams that are slightly further back from the zip seams.

I am reserving final judgement until I can test the bellows in a reasonable downpour without having to use the hosepipe. There is a remote possibility that water from the hosepipe was being driven through the seams.

Meantime I have sent an email to the dealer with photos to register a formal complaint and included notification that rejection of the vehicle may be a possibility.

I am very conflicted on the situation :

On one hand, we love the van and are looking forward to many trips away in it. It is comfortable to travel over long distances in and ticks all the boxes for us. I'm not sure what we could replace it with.

On the other hand, having paid £77k I don't expect VW to be taking us for fools. They knew they had a problem so why didn't they thoroughly test the replacement to make sure it was fit for purpose? There are enough reports from new owners in this thread to convince me that there is still a serious design flaw with the latest version.

Pending further testing and the severity of the leaks, I am wondering if the best thing to do in the short term is to buy a topper for when we know there will be bad weather. Then wait until there is more positive news on a watertight bellows replacement from VW and get that fitted at a later date whilst still under warranty.

If the van wasn't new I would have no hesitation applying a water based seam sealer to the affected seams followed by a coating of Fabsil in an attempt to carry out a DIY fix.
I don't suppose there is much chance that VW would allow a DIY approach whilst honouring the warranty if it didn't work.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

why don’t you ask the dealer if they’d approve you using Fabsil on it? Once they’ve documented your issue it can’t materially make it worse, they’ll have to replace them anyway.

 

[lohr500]

why don’t you ask the dealer if they’d approve you using Fabsil on it? Once they’ve documented your issue it can’t materially make it worse, they’ll have to replace them anyway.

Depending what happens with further tests in the rain, I may well do as you suggest.

If VW agree it needs replacing, then I guess they have nothing to lose in approving the use of a sealant. I can't see them reworking the removed bellows.

 

[Paul1]

Thanks for mentioning this.

I spotted the material covering the zips and on one side the flap was folded over.
But the water was leaking through the seam higher up than where the flap was folded.
And on the other side, the flap was correctly positioned, but still the seam leaked.

As well as some leakage through the zip seams, there is also more leakage through the vertical seams that are slightly further back from the zip seams.

I am reserving final judgement until I can test the bellows in a reasonable downpour without having to use the hosepipe. There is a remote possibility that water from the hosepipe was being driven through the seams.

Meantime I have sent an email to the dealer with photos to register a formal complaint and included notification that rejection of the vehicle may be a possibility.

I am very conflicted on the situation :

On one hand, we love the van and are looking forward to many trips away in it. It is comfortable to travel over long distances in and ticks all the boxes for us. I'm not sure what we could replace it with.

On the other hand, having paid £77k I don't expect VW to be taking us for fools. They knew they had a problem so why didn't they thoroughly test the replacement to make sure it was fit for purpose? There are enough reports from new owners in this thread to convince me that there is still a serious design flaw with the latest version.

Pending further testing and the severity of the leaks, I am wondering if the best thing to do in the short term is to buy a topper for when we know there will be bad weather. Then wait until there is more positive news on a watertight bellows replacement from VW and get that fitted at a later date whilst still under warranty.

If the van wasn't new I would have no hesitation applying a water based seam sealer to the affected seams followed by a coating of Fabsil in an attempt to carry out a DIY fix.
I don't suppose there is much chance that VW would allow a DIY approach whilst honouring the warranty if it didn't worI

Thanks for mentioning this.

I spotted the material covering the zips and on one side the flap was folded over.
But the water was leaking through the seam higher up than where the flap was folded.
And on the other side, the flap was correctly positioned, but still the seam leaked.

As well as some leakage through the zip seams, there is also more leakage through the vertical seams that are slightly further back from the zip seams.

I am reserving final judgement until I can test the bellows in a reasonable downpour without having to use the hosepipe. There is a remote possibility that water from the hosepipe was being driven through the seams.

Meantime I have sent an email to the dealer with photos to register a formal complaint and included notification that rejection of the vehicle may be a possibility.

I am very conflicted on the situation :

On one hand, we love the van and are looking forward to many trips away in it. It is comfortable to travel over long distances in and ticks all the boxes for us. I'm not sure what we could replace it with.

On the other hand, having paid £77k I don't expect VW to be taking us for fools. They knew they had a problem so why didn't they thoroughly test the replacement to make sure it was fit for purpose? There are enough reports from new owners in this thread to convince me that there is still a serious design flaw with the latest version.

Pending further testing and the severity of the leaks, I am wondering if the best thing to do in the short term is to buy a topper for when we know there will be bad weather. Then wait until there is more positive news on a watertight bellows replacement from VW and get that fitted at a later date whilst still under warranty.

If the van wasn't new I would have no hesitation applying a water based seam sealer to the affected seams followed by a coating of Fabsil in an attempt to carry out a DIY fix.
I don't suppose there is much chance that VW would allow a DIY approach whilst honouring the warranty if it didn't work.

I agree, but if many of us wait for VW to completely solve this and not complain yet because we have plenty of time (5 year warranty) VW might think problem is isolated and hope most owners are happy so removing the urgency to get this done.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I agree, but if many of us wait for VW to completely solve this and not complain yet because we have plenty of time (5 year warranty) VW might think problem is isolated and hope most owners are happy so removing the urgency to get this done.

Exactly. Getting a warranty claim loaded and contacting both the dealer and VWEO are essential so the widespread nature is known to VW.

 

[GreenMissile]

Does anyone with a leaking 04S have a picture from the outside when it’s leaking through to the inside?

Thought I’d join the fun this morning and give my 03S a little workout…as I mentioned I suspect mine may have been treated with a water repellant coating at the dealership as it hasn’t leaked in quite a few tests now. Interested to know if anyone else’s beads water in the same way mine does?

View attachment 120521Our 04S A stickered 15/11/23 from the outside enroute to failing