Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[markbrown83]

You sure you can tell that? Once it's coming through the zip it's going to soak across the inner seam, drip and get worse with any wicking effect.

You can see in this photo it is two of the seams that are leaking. Neither are from the zip.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

@CaliforniaCylus what’s the latest with your van?

It's complicated

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

You can see in this photo it is two of the seams that are leaking. Neither are from the zip.

View attachment 120592

Yes very clear photo. Essentially every seam on the bellows will leak if exposed to the right conditions. The positive side is your experience showed no leakage from the horizontal taped seams under the windows….is this right? If so taping those seams worked. They just need to tape all the seams and then we’re all good.

 

[markbrown83]

Yes very clear photo. Essentially every seam on the bellows will leak if exposed to the right conditions. The positive side is your experience showed no leakage from the horizontal taped seams under the windows….is this right? If so taping those seams worked. They just need to tape all the seams and then we’re all good.

Yup that’s correct.

Chances of them doing that?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Yup that’s correct.

Chances of them doing that?

If anyone who has an issue makes it clear that it’s the vertical seams that leak on the 04S, and really make sure that’s emphasised, then it should be more obvious.

 

[Corradobrit]

You sure you can tell that? Once it's coming through the zip it's going to soak across the inner seam, drip and get worse with any wicking effect.

Yes it's quite clear in the video I shot. The droplets form on the outer edge of the zipper about 6cm above the end of the zip (both sides).

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Yes it's quite clear in the video I shot. The droplets form on the outer edge of the zipper about 6cm above the end of the zip (both sides).

Yours in the only one I’ve seen the zip seams leaking on. Even so tape the vertical seams and it’ll remove virtually all cases of leakage. Take the zip seams too if it’s possible then even better. It’s entirely feasible for VW to fix this properly now, we just need them to do it.

 

[derek_j_buchanan]

15 so far

View attachment 120587

Where is the poll - I can add to it now

 

[Corradobrit]

Yours in the only one I’ve seen the zip seams leaking on. Even so tape the vertical seams and it’ll remove virtually all cases of leakage. Take the zip seams too if it’s possible then even better. It’s entirely feasible for VW to fix this properly now, we just need them to do it.

Not the only. Here is another. Several others also report similar

Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

Noticed mine leaks both from seams on windows and zips. Also leaking In from the bottom near rubber seal. It’s been an awful experience so far waking up during the night to check if water is coming in, and then placing cloths round edges to soak up water. It’s somewhat spoiled the whole...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Ilikesleeping]

Has anyone actually tried Fabsil on the seams? That’s what my dealership advised I do and said it would not affect the warranty.

 

[ArunAlec]

Has anyone actually tried Fabsil on the seams? That’s what my dealership advised I do and said it would not affect the warranty.

Get it in writing! If the handbook states that you shouldn’t put any treatment on the roof and you ignore you could come unstuck!

 

[RockinNRollin]

Where is the poll - I can add to it now

Leaking Bellows: 04S only survey

OK, so I realise this feels a bit repetitive, but I think so much has changed a new poll is needed. Let's keep it simple this time and please only vote if you have an 04S bellows. To add a bit of context, I would suggest the odd drip we classify as a "pass", and only if it's coming in enough to...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[RockinNRollin]

It's interesting that I don't recall any of the 03S leaking from the vertical seams, perhaps because the time it would take to infiltrate was so much longer than the sieve like horizontal seams that nobody ever reached that stage? It's taking many hours of heavy rain to get the vertical seams to leak on the 04S if I've absorbed the info in this thread correctly (no pun intended), so that being the case I can actually understand VW reaching a similar conclusion over the 03S that it's the horizontal seams that are fundamentally the problem (along with the logic that they are barriers to the natural direction of water, so more likely to be susceptible to "catching" water running down the fabric).

This is all conjecture of course, nobody (including VWEO it seems) has any idea what's really going on in DE. My guess is though is this latest symptom of leaking just hadn't been identified previously, by either us owners or by VW (and to be honest, it would be hard for VW to replicate the diversity and extent of consumer testing!). I suspect it'll take a little while as they'll understandably want to see a bigger picture of evidence, but I suspect they'll develop another version with sealed vertical seams.

Everyone with these problems are well within their warranty period, many of us with 5 years of warranty too. They're still churning out Californias until the summer; there's going to be lots of people in the same boat (sorry, more water-based puns). It will get sorted.

 

[Corradobrit]

It's interesting that I don't recall any of the 03S leaking from the vertical seams, perhaps because the time it would take to infiltrate was so much longer than the sieve like horizontal seams that nobody ever reached that stage? It's taking many hours of heavy rain to get the vertical seams to leak on the 04S if I've absorbed the info in this thread correctly (no pun intended), so that being the case I can actually understand VW reaching a similar conclusion over the 03S that it's the horizontal seams that are fundamentally the problem (along with the logic that they are barriers to the natural direction of water, so more likely to be susceptible to "catching" water running down the fabric).

This is all conjecture of course, nobody (including VWEO it seems) has any idea what's really going on in DE. My guess is though is this latest symptom of leaking just hadn't been identified previously, by either us owners or by VW (and to be honest, it would be hard for VW to replicate the diversity and extent of consumer testing!). I suspect it'll take a little while as they'll understandably want to see a bigger picture of evidence, but I suspect they'll develop another version with sealed vertical seams.

Everyone with these problems are well within their warranty period, many of us with 5 years of warranty too. They're still churning out Californias until the summer; there's going to be lots of people in the same boat (sorry, more water-based puns). It will get sorted.

Check the last pic I show in the link in post 2709. 03S leaker and there is a droplet on the vertical seam. It's rare but obviously does occur.

 

[markbrown83]

It's interesting that I don't recall any of the 03S leaking from the vertical seams, perhaps because the time it would take to infiltrate was so much longer than the sieve like horizontal seams that nobody ever reached that stage? It's taking many hours of heavy rain to get the vertical seams to leak on the 04S if I've absorbed the info in this thread correctly (no pun intended), so that being the case I can actually understand VW reaching a similar conclusion over the 03S that it's the horizontal seams that are fundamentally the problem (along with the logic that they are barriers to the natural direction of water, so more likely to be susceptible to "catching" water running down the fabric).

This is all conjecture of course, nobody (including VWEO it seems) has any idea what's really going on in DE. My guess is though is this latest symptom of leaking just hadn't been identified previously, by either us owners or by VW (and to be honest, it would be hard for VW to replicate the diversity and extent of consumer testing!). I suspect it'll take a little while as they'll understandably want to see a bigger picture of evidence, but I suspect they'll develop another version with sealed vertical seams.

Everyone with these problems are well within their warranty period, many of us with 5 years of warranty too. They're still churning out Californias until the summer; there's going to be lots of people in the same boat (sorry, more water-based puns). It will get sorted.

Ours started leaking in less than two hours.

 

[GreenMissile]

If anyone who has an issue makes it clear that it’s the vertical seams that leak on the 04S, and really make sure that’s emphasised, then it should be more obvious.

The vertical seems on my 04S were fine at the 3.5-4 hour mark, it was the horizontal window seam on mine which was the main culprit at that time. That is not to say the they would not have started to show signs of ingress later, but I could not bear to see any more water coming in and wanted to avoid potential damage to the electrics.

 

[Julesverne2000]

It's interesting that I don't recall any of the 03S leaking from the vertical seams, perhaps because the time it would take to infiltrate was so much longer than the sieve like horizontal seams that nobody ever reached that stage? It's taking many hours of heavy rain to get the vertical seams to leak on the 04S if I've absorbed the info in this thread correctly (no pun intended), so that being the case I can actually understand VW reaching a similar conclusion over the 03S that it's the horizontal seams that are fundamentally the problem (along with the logic that they are barriers to the natural direction of water, so more likely to be susceptible to "catching" water running down the fabric).

This is all conjecture of course, nobody (including VWEO it seems) has any idea what's really going on in DE. My guess is though is this latest symptom of leaking just hadn't been identified previously, by either us owners or by VW (and to be honest, it would be hard for VW to replicate the diversity and extent of consumer testing!). I suspect it'll take a little while as they'll understandably want to see a bigger picture of evidence, but I suspect they'll develop another version with sealed vertical seams.

Everyone with these problems are well within their warranty period, many of us with 5 years of warranty too. They're still churning out Californias until the summer; there's going to be lots of people in the same boat (sorry, more water-based puns). It will get sorted.

My 2023 03S leaked on the vertical seams as well as the horizontal. I didn’t though experience sieve like leakage to the extent that seats got wet (socks and towels were deployed on on a couple of occasions!).

Didn’t @ParachuteMan in his testing find that Fabsil kept the vertical seams dry, so far?

 

[lohr500]

VW should be ashamed of themselves, given the ongoing saga of previous iterations of the design and high failure rate on recent 04S A bellows reported on this forum.

Surely they would have rigged up a few vans with the latest bellows and put them in a rain simulation environment for a few hours.

If there had only been one reported failure on the forum that could be considered as bad luck, but with so many of us seeing the same vertical seam leaks, this suggests to me that the problem is widespread.

Many new owners may be unaware of the bellows issue and won't realise they have a problem until the first time they use the roof in the rain.

 

[markbrown83]

For a lot of people I feel the van is a daily driver that they use as a campervan in the summer. I was reading this on a German forum last night and they were saying the same.

 

[RockinNRollin]

My bad; in fairness, there are a few posts on the topic on here - it's hard to keep up!

Either way, while clearly the journey is frustrating, I think it's likely the problem will get resolved eventually. For us, the Cali still offers the perfect package. In the meantime, if the forecast is particularly wet we can put our wrap on and we know that makes it bulletproof. It's not ideal, but we can live with it as an interim solution.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

My bad; in fairness, there are a few posts on the topic on here - it's hard to keep up!

Either way, while clearly the journey is frustrating, I think it's likely the problem will get resolved eventually. For us, the Cali still offers the perfect package. In the meantime, if the forecast is particularly wet we can put our wrap on and we know that makes it bulletproof. It's not ideal, but we can live with it as an interim solution.

That’s exactly what it needs to be though, an interim solution and not a permanent one.

 

[markbrown83]

It all comes down to your own use.

We were going to be full time travelling around the UK and Ireland this year and eventually Europe next year. It's not reliable enough to do that. We were going to put solar on so we can mainly be fully off grid which has, for obvious reasons, been put on hold.

Our Cali in it's current state cannot be used in the way we and VW intended it to.

It's a gorgeous day outside today, and we are trying to stop ourselves romanticising about it as when that weather turns the atmosphere changes quickly. Saturday evening / Sunday morning was not an enjoyable experience.

 

[markbrown83]

That’s exactly what it needs to be though, an interim solution and not a permanent one.

And fabseal is not the perm solution if that's what dealers / VW are going to push.

It only takes you to be caught out that one time and you've destroyed your van.

 

[Elmo3]

And fabseal is not the perm solution if that's what dealers / VW are going to push.

It only takes you to be caught out that one time and you've destroyed your van.

That’s the problem. On a campsite, roof up. Off for lunch, bike ride, whatever else. Quick downpour arrives and you’ve potentially wrecked the upper bed / control panel / downstairs seats etc. Simply not good enough. Besides, it’s something which has been no problem with any of our previous Cali’s, being 2009, 2017 and 2019.

 

[markbrown83]

That’s the problem. On a campsite, roof up. Off for lunch, bike ride, whatever else. Quick downpour arrives and you’ve potentially wrecked the upper bed / control panel / downstairs seats etc. Simply not good enough. Besides, it’s something which has been no problem with any of our previous Cali’s, being 2009, 2017 and 2019.

Spot on!