Avoiding roof corrosion?

[Viktorgeorge]

I was very surprised. Would never have removed these bolts if I hadn't' spotted this one. View attachment 109161

I have only done the two so far, un-galvanised and under the 'drain cover'. I think I will do all the roof bolts now, thanks for the tip-off.

California ownership, even when new, can become a time consuming hobby.

 

[Perfectos]

Remove seal, waxoyl, replace!
Job done no rust issues

You have experience of that ?

 

[HIGGINS]

You have experience of that ?

Why would I say other wise??

 

[Perfectos]

Why would I say other wise??

Can you elaborate pls, how do you apply waxoyl to the recess?
any photos ?

 

[HIGGINS]

Really?
Google how to spray easily into a recess?
That will be quicker than me explaining it!

 

[Perfectos]

Im aware of waxoyl and how to apply it into & onto panels, but I’ve never heard of applying waxoyl into a rubber seal recess approx 3mm thick Before fitting it to a panel !

I was under the impression Waxoyl should not be used on rubber as it break down the rubber !

Waxoyl themselves advise to keep it off rubber !

I thought you may be more forthcoming with your method to help others particularly as you’ve posted it as a solution to a common problem.

why the Really comment,?
were all here to share info, if nothing else just to allow others to make an informed decision !
it would help others if you elaborated on how you do it and how you avoid getting Waxoyl over the external part of the seal, do you let it dry in the recess before fitting etc etc or am I missing something?

Edit

Additional Information​

Waxoyl is a thick, waxy fluid saturated with very powerful rustkiller. Killing off old rust and preventing new rust, protect your car by simply spraying it on to metal. The Waxoyl solution will then instantly chase out moisture and form a flexible, weatherproof skin that doesn’t crack, dry out or wash off in the rain. Apply it to the insides of doors, panels, box sections, behind sills and chassis and anywhere that water is likely to collect.
Waxoyl is typically used on cars, motorcycles, caravans, boats, trailers and on car and fork lift batteries. Do not apply to stressed plastic body mouldings or rubber trim.

 

[Perfectos]

Really?
Google how to spray easily into a recess?
That will be quicker than me explaining it!

As I said in my previous post I’m aware of waxoyl and what it does and how it should be used, which is why I asked for more information.

Having done as you suggested in your previous post, I cannot find a waxoyl product suitable for use on rubber as you suggest, nor can I find any information on a proprietary way of applying a very small amount of waxoyl, cleanly & continuously to a very small recess In a rubber roof seal ?

i am intrigued to find out more , clearly you stated you’ve done as you suggest to your two previous Calis, with apparent ease and no ill effect (only positives) & you may well have solved the issue that VW have failed to address Over the production life time of the California.

if you could please take the time to advise what product you used and how you applied it that would be greatly appreciated by many many forum members ?

 

[andyinluton]

Of course replace the seal of it is an old one? Why put a rusty old seal back on??

I didn’t mean replace it if it’s rusty, I meant replace it irrespective, just pulling an ok seal off & putting it back on again could be enough to scrape through the rubber to expose the steel.

 

[RockinNRollin]

As per another thread, I’d be wary of applying anything that isn’t “VW endorsed” unless you plan to never call upon the warranty for that part of the vehicle; I would imagine if it did break down and the recess was full of Waxoyl or some other product they’d immediately blame that for the seal failure and deny any repair.

 

[Perfectos]

I didn’t mean replace it if it’s rusty, I meant replace it irrespective, just pulling an ok seal off & putting it back on again could be enough to scrape through the rubber to expose the steel.

Hi Andy

I understand your assumption And the reason for that assumption, But that doesn’t explain why many roof seals that are brand new & have not been removed for inspection fail, in my instance I had three roof seals fail:

fitst one never been off to inspect, on first inspection found to have failed !
second one, failed on second inspection
Third one - never been off, failed on first inspection
Fourth one, been inspected several times - no issues

VW actually advise Dealers to carry out regular inspection of the roof edge by removing The seal and cleaning the roof edge as is suggested earlier in this thread. The fact that VW dealer do not carry ot this inspection (unless specifically asked) is also part of the issue in detecting early problems.

I think the problem is just pure bad design / manufacturing, inspection should not be an issue it just give the opportunity to stop the roof corrosion before it starts.

not all roof seals seem to be affected, but many are (too many) the consequences if left unchecked are IMO greater than the risk of not checking

 

[Perfectos]

As per another thread, I’d be wary of applying anything that isn’t “VW endorsed” unless you plan to never call upon the warranty for that part of the vehicle; I would imagine if it did break down and the recess was full of Waxoyl or some other product they’d immediately blame that for the seal failure and deny any repair.

I would like to hear more from the OP with regards to how they actually applied Waxoyl into the recess, using the proper application process that is apparently available on the internet, without getting the product on the outside of the seal & then let it dry sufficiently to refit without making an unholy mess of the roof ?

I would be very very wary of taking this advice seriously , particularly due to the responses to date when asked for more info ? I would be over the moon to be proven wrong :
i.e. The OP identifies a waxoyl product fit for purpose and explains how it it applied to the recess etc (as above comment)

 

[Viktorgeorge]

With the benefit of hindsight, I would have removed, Waxoyl packed and replaced the seal day 1.

I first used Waxoyl in 1969 as a 17 year old on my 1933 Austin 10 (bought for £20), and have been a fan ever since.

I suspect day 1 Waxoyl would have supressed any rust even if the rubber cover in the seal the the steel reinforcement was compromised at factory build stage (as mine appears to have been).

I am going to see what my VW dealer can offer, but, if it looks tortuous, I may just order a new £85 seal and Waxoyl DIY - thank you for that link @yossarian .

VW Ipswich very helpful when I called first thing today. Also spoke to Rackhams Ipswich, VAG approved, who do all the coachwork for VW Ipswich.

Looks like the two will get approval from VW for the 'Workshop Action 75A1', order the seal part number 7E7875297, and Rackhams are talking of installing the new seal carefully with additional tape to the fourth, front, side of the aluminium roof and also adding some form of corrosion protection product into the seal recess - such as Waxoyl or equivalent suitable for rubber - as a belt and braces.

I will update as this develops. Ipswich VW and Rackhams are looking into the latest advice from VW under the above Workshop Action.

I have been researching Waxoyl ('clear' not 'black') and rubber and it does seem that some people mix the two successfully, notwithstanding the advice from Hammerite: always wiping off excess. The kerosene in Waxoyl does swell slightly the rubber temporarily, but apparently it then reverts (perhaps to a perfect mould?) to normal.

Even if Waxoyl it degrades the rubber in time (say a few years) perhaps that is a price worth paying for the corrosion protection. The seals are only £85 after all.

@HIGGINS has been economic (since 2014) with his contributions, but those above are valuable and each to their own. I would however like to know - please - if he has treated seals just once then forgotten, or removed and checked/replenished over time.

 

[HIGGINS]

Hi G
My sentiments exactly, why worry about the warranty for a seal???
Would rather treat the seal or replace seal if it starts to go rusty? approx £80.

No brainer!

The other alternative is possibly a rusty van then problems, problems, problems! Once rust sets in it is almost impossible to irradicate?

However if you treat a new or newish seal with no signs of rust you reduce the chance of rust considerably

Yes, clear is the best and if you use waxoyl? You might have to thin it down a little with thinners!

I have been used waxoyl but I use Lanogaurd now.
You can use Lanogaurd as it is and spray in the recess with the gun supplied!

I have used it on my two Cali's just the one application and didn't have any problems for the 2-3 yrs I owned the vans. I also applied a good coating of quality hard wax to the area under the seal before refitting the seal.
I inspected the seal every year! No signs of rust

Best of luck to you all

 

[Perfectos]

Hi G
My sentiments exactly, why worry about the warranty for a seal???
Would rather treat the seal or replace seal if it starts to go rusty? approx £80.

No brainer!

The other alternative is possibly a rusty van then problems, problems, problems! Once rust sets in it is almost impossible to irradicate?

However if you treat a new or newish seal with no signs of rust you reduce the chance of rust considerably

Yes, clear is the best and if you use waxoyl? You might have to thin it down a little with thinners!

I have been used waxoyl but I use Lanogaurd now.
You can use Lanogaurd as it is and spray in the recess with the gun supplied!

I have used it on my two Cali's just the one application and didn't have any problems for the 2-3 yrs I owned the vans. I also applied a good coating of quality hard wax to the area under the seal before refitting the seal.
I inspected the seal every year! No signs of rust

Best of luck to you all

So to be clear you used to use Waxoyl, but now you use Lanoguard?
did you use Lanoguard on your last Cali roof seal ?

Lanoguard is a totally different product chemically, why did you / do you not use Waxoyl?
After all you just recommend Waxoyl for use on rubber in Your previous post (albeit until someome else posted you didnt mention which Waxoyl product, which is quite ambiguous ).

Both products are spray products, how do you get the product into the seal recess without getting it all over the outside of the seal?

do you do this on or off the van ?

Do you wait for the product(s) to dry before refitting the seal ?

the derails you have provided are very sketchy indeed, if you could take the time to respond fully that would much appreciated, particularly as you seem to have some experience of using both products on a Cali roof seal, which is contra to the manufacturer recommendations?

why did you find it necessary to remove the roof seal once treated with whichever product you used (to check for corrosion) ?

Did you re apply the product after removing to inspect the seal ?

 

[RockinNRollin]

FWIW, once out of warranty I would probably use ACF50 and brush it on. It's safe on pretty much everything (other than braking surfaces!) so I'd have no qualms using it, but even so I'd still avoid it during the warranty period.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

So to be clear you used to use Waxoyl, but now you use Lanoguard?
did you use Lanoguard on your last Cali roof seal ?

Lanoguard is a totally different product chemically, why did you / do you not use Waxoyl?
After all you just recommend Waxoyl for use on rubber in Your previous post (albeit until someome else posted you didnt mention which Waxoyl product, which is quite ambiguous ).

Both products are spray products, how do you get the product into the seal recess without getting it all over the outside of the seal?

do you do this on or off the van ?

Do you wait for the product(s) to dry before refitting the seal ?

the derails you have provided are very sketchy indeed, if you could take the time to respond fully that would much appreciated, particularly as you seem to have some experience of using both products on a Cali roof seal, which is contra to the manufacturer recommendations?

why did you find it necessary to remove the roof seal once treated with whichever product you used (to check for corrosion) ?

Did you re apply the product after removing to inspect the seal ?

Hi G
My sentiments exactly, why worry about the warranty for a seal???
Would rather treat the seal or replace seal if it starts to go rusty? approx £80.

No brainer!

The other alternative is possibly a rusty van then problems, problems, problems! Once rust sets in it is almost impossible to irradicate?

However if you treat a new or newish seal with no signs of rust you reduce the chance of rust considerably

Yes, clear is the best and if you use waxoyl? You might have to thin it down a little with thinners!

I have been used waxoyl but I use Lanogaurd now.
You can use Lanogaurd as it is and spray in the recess with the gun supplied!

I have used it on my two Cali's just the one application and didn't have any problems for the 2-3 yrs I owned the vans. I also applied a good coating of quality hard wax to the area under the seal before refitting the seal.
I inspected the seal every year! No signs of rust

Best of luck to you all

Thanks for that, @HIGGINS.

Lanoguard looks a good alternative, it specifically says it is safe to use on rubber (unlike Hammerite Waxoyl).

Lanoguard | Rust Protection Product for Vehicles, Boats, and Machine

Lanoguard offers a variety of rust prevention solutions. Sourced and produced in the UK by a family run business. Trusted by thousands of customers. Easy to apply, minimal prep providing long lasting protection.

www.lanoguard.co.uk

I haven’t contacted them yet but they claim to have telephone technical support.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

Following my posts #80 & #112 above, I have been asked today to bring my California into VW Ipswich for an inspection by a service manager and his warranty colleague w/c 19.6.2023, who are then going to refer things to the VW paint and body team ......

I feel I am going to have to be need to be patient - unless I just buy a seal myself, and replace with anti-corrosion treatment as others describe above.

Apparently 'Workshop Action 75A1' is not applicable to my vehicle (although the information is "very similar" to the issue with my van).

I will update this string as things develop and I am given more information (for example the correct current Workshop Action reference , if there is one).

Although I live in a seafront location, in the 6 months of ownership from new my California spent much of the winter in Portugal, garaged, and the rest of winter garaged here, and has been very regularly washed and does not stand on the street. My point being, in summary, that if I have this problem after 7 months chances are other new California do too.

 

[Perfectos]

Following my posts #80 & #112 above, I have been asked today to bring my California into VW Ipswich for an inspection by a service manager and his warranty colleague w/c 19.6.2023, who are then going to refer things to the VW paint and body team ......

I feel I am going to have to be need to be patient - unless I just buy a seal myself, and replace with anti-corrosion treatment as others describe above.

Apparently 'Workshop Action 75A1' is not applicable to my vehicle (although the information is very similar to the issue with my van).

I will update this string as things develop and I am given more information (for example the correct current Workshop Action reference , if there is one).

Although I live in a seafront location, in the 6 months of ownership from new my California spent much of the winter in Portugal, garaged, and the rest of winter garaged here, and has been very regularly washed and does not stand on the street. My point being, in summary, that if I have this problem after 7 months chances are other new California do too.

FFS, if the dealer can’t diagnose this or has no experience of it previously I would be getting another dealer.
The workshop action was a clear admission by VW that the roof seal is know you be a poor design that has the potential to cause roof corrosio, the instructions from VW for ALL dealers was to replace faulty seal.
Sounds like tge dealer is referring your roof for remedial paint due to corrosion, the paint will be fine once the rusty seal is replaced.
It gets on my T*#s that dealers don’t have a scooby despite this being an open and shut case of the most simple order.
I would ring the dealer and sound them out as far as what they know and why they need to refer it to VW for the paint, If they tell you a load of cock&Bull go elsewhere ASAP.

Edit: the roof seal is rusty it must be replaced under warranty. Rust on a new part is not normal therefore it is a warranty replacement !

 

[Kayleigh]

Can someone please confirm the warranty period for the roof on a T6. I read on here that it was extended to 6 years on T5s. Does that apply to T6?
I ask as my Beach is 3 years old later this month.
Thanks

 

[Viktorgeorge]

FFS, if the dealer can’t diagnose this or has no experience of it previously I would be getting another dealer.
The workshop action was a clear admission by VW that the roof seal is know you be a poor design that has the potential to cause roof corrosio, the instructions from VW for ALL dealers was to replace faulty seal.
Sounds like tge dealer is referring your roof for remedial paint due to corrosion, the paint will be fine once the rusty seal is replaced.
It gets on my T*#s that dealers don’t have a scooby despite this being an open and shut case of the most simple order.
I would ring the dealer and sound them out as far as what they know and why they need to refer it to VW for the paint, If they tell you a load of cock&Bull go elsewhere ASAP.

Edit: the roof seal is rusty it must be replaced under warranty. Rust on a new part is not normal therefore it is a warranty replacement !

Well, @Perfectos, many of your thoughts crossed my mind too, but I want to see what they come up with on the 19 June. It is a bit of a slow start so far, but my contact has been on 'half term' holiday.

What I can't yet judge from comments here and from the VW dealer response to date is how rare this currently is on new California. There clearly was an issue some years ago. If this is commonly occurring again now, then I agree they should be better briefed than they appear so far to be.

@Kayleigh , not sure what the roof warranty period is, probably varies (3 -12 years) depending on the exact point of claim (paint, corrosion, mechanical) but others will know better than me because mine are early days.

As I say, I will post all as this develops, in the meantime feedback from any other newish California owners would be appreciated: translation ... please consider checking your roof seal, on a warm day!

 

[WelshGas]

Can someone please confirm the warranty period for the roof on a T6. I read on here that it was extended to 6 years on T5s. Does that apply to T6?
I ask as my Beach is 3 years old later this month.
Thanks

The extended warranty was for the main panel above the windscreen and was for the T5.1. The alloy composition was changed, I gather for Model Year 2015 onwards.

 

[Perfectos]

There clearly was an issue some years ago. If this is commonly occurring again now, then I agree they should be better briefed than they appear so far to be.

The roof seal is exactly the same part as used on ALL calis since inception,
the roof seal is the weak link when it comes to roof (main panel corrosion).

not to be confused with the roof cap issue experienced on T5s.

VW are more than aware (but do not actively admit) of the issue with the roof since the T5, the introduction of the Tape, to three edges of the roof has been factory applied since 2017 (T6) & the work shop action to apply the tape retrospectively to those vans presented to a dealer Whom were not Applied at the factory.
Part of that workshop action and the ongoing workshop action was & still is to inspect the roof seal and replace at the first sign of splits Cracks of rust. (Under warranty)

 

[Perfectos]

how rare this currently is on new California.

It is probably as common on a new Cali as it is on an old Cali , the part has not changed (roof seal) thd tape has merely reduced the incidence of roof corrosion being noted by owners, it has not changed the fact the roof seal is still failing, but, and it a big but it relies on owners checking their roof seal to bring it to VWs attention before it causes proof corrosion, not the other way round !
which is far from ideal and highlights VW approach to the whole issue, stick a bit of tape on the roof edge to delay the inevitable roof corrosion caused by the seal failures long enough to be outside the three year warranty !

 

[Viktorgeorge]

It is probably as common on a new Cali as it is on an old Cali , the part has not changed (roof seal) thd tape has merely reduced the incidence of roof corrosion being noted by owners, it has not changed the fact the roof seal is still failing, but, and it a big but it relies on owners checking their roof seal to bring it to VWs attention before it causes proof corrosion, not the other way round !
which is far from ideal and highlights VW approach to the whole issue, stick a bit of tape on the roof edge to delay the inevitable roof corrosion caused by the seal failures long enough to be outside the three year warranty !

Helpful background, thanks. It puzzles me why nylon or similar non-ferrous stiffening has not been substituted within the seal by now.

 

[SusiBus]

A few years ago a member did locate an American manufacturer that produced seals without steel inserts. That information either did not reach VW, or was not taken up by them. I'm afraid this saga, appalling as it is, is not going to be remedied at this late stage.