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Duxdeluxe

Duxdeluxe

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Lets remember who the real winner was on that fateful night

It wasn’t democracy

Any one remember Cambridge Analytica ?

They proved that night that democracy could be circumnavigated by anyone with enough money

And people still believe democracy won !
 
flying banana

flying banana

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I'm sorry. I do understand and remember what was stated and promised back in the 70's.
I have Absolutely no intention of wasting my time reading your Remainer literature.
Roll on New Years Eve 2020.
they still fail to accept the result mate. it's incredible. piers morgan who voted remain accepts the result and says so on TV. it's a shame this whining still continues.
 
Duxdeluxe

Duxdeluxe

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they still fail to accept the result mate. it's incredible. piers morgan who voted remain accepts the result and says so on TV. it's a shame this whining still continues.
I am so glad Piers Morgan and myself don’t think the same, thank you for that
 
Bellcrew

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There's plenty of reasons why the 2016 referendum and its consequences was undemocratic — I thought at least that was accepted by Leave voters by now? Here are a few anyway...
  • Misinformation and lies throughout the campaign, following on from years of anti-migration and anti-EU narratives in the press made up on falsehoods.
  • The 2016 referendum was badly designed — Leave weren't required to offer an alternative, hence the multitude of versions of Brexit debated after the result (Single Market, EEA, Norway, Canada+ etc).
  • EU citizens who were UK residents couldn't vote (many who have lived here longer and contributed more to society than I have, and I did get a vote).
  • Vote Leave broke election laws, and there were no repercussions for overspending.
  • UK press and media, including the BBC, is not regulated enough to be forced to require facts to be balanced with facts and empirical evidence; emotion and ideology will do in this post-truth era.
I thought your comparison to a rugby match was interesting. Sport is flawed with bad decisions and injustices (that's often what makes it so compelling), and has a varied history of corruption.

To think democracy won is deeply misjudged, and simply naïve at best.

Hope this helps answer your question.
If you do not accept the results of referendums when you lose it is inevitable that faults in the system or even laughably in the voters are found to justify the childish stamping of metaphorical feet.
  • Both sides were mendacious, it is called politics, any lie you can do I can do better sort of thing

  • Impossible to ensure a fair vote on multiple questions, in or out option was the same as the 1975 vote

  • Practically a universal requirement to be a citizen of a country in order to vote, certainly in the EU.

  • Impossible to condemn the leave side after the governments brochure recommending remain was sent to every house in the UK at a cost of £9 million.

  • Almost every country where media and press are "forced" to conform to government regulations are authoritarian disasters. There is unfortunately no god like regulator who is always correct or fair.
Who knows how Brexit will work out in the medium term but given our history of being in and out of Europe in various roles for centuries it will likely not be as successful or catastrophic as most think, probably.
 
Amarillo

Amarillo

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Lets remember who the real winner was on that fateful night

It wasn’t democracy

Any one remember Cambridge Analytica ?

They proved that night that democracy could be circumnavigated by anyone with enough money

And people still believe democracy won !
The rules are the rules, and the law is the law. Either side could have manipulated the rules and broken the law to the same degree with similar sanctions. The fault of calling the referendum lies squarely on Cameron’s shoulders. Losing the referendum is mainly the fault of Corbyn’s lacklustre campaign for remain. Remainers such as Gina Millar gave remaining their best shot. A crippled government led by Boris Johnson should have been made into a puppet administration by the opposition but was instead awarded an election by the misguided Liberal Democrats and won a stunning election victory.

We cannot now dwell on the past. Let’s move on and look for the very best deal we can outside of the EU. Hold the powerful Johnson-Cummings administration to account as far as is possible. It’s unlikely we will have another General Election until May 2024. Much may have changed by then - but do not rule out a growing campaign to rejoin, but do not rule out a fragmentation of the UK either.
 
WelshGas

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The rules are the rules, and the law is the law. Either side could have manipulated the rules and broken the law to the same degree with similar sanctions. The fault of calling the referendum lies squarely on Cameron’s shoulders. Losing the referendum is mainly the fault of Corbyn’s lacklustre campaign for remain. Remainers such as Gina Millar gave remaining their best shot. A crippled government led by Boris Johnson should have been made into a puppet administration by the opposition but was instead awarded an election by the misguided Liberal Democrats and won a stunning election victory.

We cannot now dwell on the past. Let’s move on and look for the very best deal we can outside of the EU. Hold the powerful Johnson-Cummings administration to account as far as is possible. It’s unlikely we will have another General Election until May 2024. Much may have changed by then - but do not rule out a growing campaign to rejoin, but do not rule out a fragmentation of the UK either.
There may not be an EU to rejoin in 4 yrs time.;)
 
maxandcali

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If you do not accept the results of referendums when you lose it is inevitable that faults in the system or even laughably in the voters are found to justify the childish stamping of metaphorical feet.
  • Both sides were mendacious, it is called politics, any lie you can do I can do better sort of thing

  • Impossible to ensure a fair vote on multiple questions, in or out option was the same as the 1975 vote

  • Practically a universal requirement to be a citizen of a country in order to vote, certainly in the EU.

  • Impossible to condemn the leave side after the governments brochure recommending remain was sent to every house in the UK at a cost of £9 million.

  • Almost every country where media and press are "forced" to conform to government regulations are authoritarian disasters. There is unfortunately no god like regulator who is always correct or fair.
Who knows how Brexit will work out in the medium term but given our history of being in and out of Europe in various roles for centuries it will likely not be as successful or catastrophic as most think, probably.
Well yes, your points further counter the idea that “democracy won”, which was what was being discussed. I agree.
 
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Amarillo

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There may not be an EU to rejoin in 4 yrs time.;)
You sound almost gleeful at that thought! The success of the British economy is dependent of that of our biggest trading partner. Be careful with what you wish.

However, no EU in 2024 is something I would happily wager against. And a substantial wager with poor odds - willingly.
 
WelshGas

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You sound almost gleeful at that thought! The success of the British economy is dependent of that of our biggest trading partner. Be careful with what you wish.

However, no EU in 2024 is something I would happily wager against. And a substantial wager with poor odds - willingly.
We'll see. I don't think the EU of 2024 will be as it is now in 2020.
 
Amarillo

Amarillo

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We'll see. I don't think the EU of 2024 will be as it is now in 2020.
Well that's a sure bet. Stronger or weaker, smaller or enlarged, less popular or more popular. Those are harder calls. Serbia and Montenegro are not due to join until 2025, so enlarged by 2024 is perhaps unlikely.
 
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