Coronavirus Impact

[Digger]

Me, I’d like to see our so called nuclear deterrent scrapped, let’s face it, we will never use it
That would save a bob or two

Like it or not that is the actual only effective defence we have. Having been based at Neptune in the distant past I know the reality. This deterent is something Macron also recognises as essential to Europes safety. Our military has been downsized to a perilous state.
Raising taxes to help the poorer souls be they elderly, young or unfortunate seems the right thing to do and as for some 'earning' millions that is so wrong and they should be hit hard. We also have to build up the essential public services NHS. Police. Fire. Education.which have been hit hard by cutbacks (and sort out their management at the same time).

 

[docbob1]

Ah, the mainstream media, a couple of quotes from 2018 when we had a very low rate of virulent flu.

The BBC reported [1]:


"There were around 50,100 excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017-18 - the highest since the winter of 1975-76, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.


"The increase is thought to be down to the flu, the ineffectiveness of the flu vaccine in older people and spells of very cold weather last winter."


The Daily Mail reported [2]:


"More than 50,000 excess deaths were recorded across England and Wales last winter, official figures show.


"Excess deaths refer to the amount of patients that died unexpectedly, calculated by comparing the mortality rate from winter months to the rest of the year.


"The shocking figures have been partially blamed on the deadly strains of flu that swept the nations over the colder months of December to March. "

How the media can change its tune depending on what is to be acheived! The above figures quoted were totally inaccurate for that year. In 2010 swine flu only 47000 excess deaths!

The point I try to make is why all the 'smoke and mirrors', propaganda statements which are easily undermined etc etc. Boris, bless his socks, in intensive care but in 'good spirits', nobody I ever saw there was concious and 2 days later taking a couple of short walks. If there was a dire medical emergency about to kill off the world one would not need such nonsense.
Amazing how the whole world went into lockdown, South Africa the day before us and they hadn't even had a recorded death. I see that WHO, the biggest private funders, as I have said previously, being Gates and pharmaceutical companies' are the only body to be able to state a 'pandemic' is occuring and their dictum overides any countries laws. Powerful stuff for a non-independant body, not democratically elected, not accountable to anyone but highly corrupt, see my earlier message regarding Tamiflu scandal in 2010.

 

[andyinluton]

I’m tired of yawning..

what exactly is your point?

 

[HB19]

Ah, the mainstream media, a couple of quotes from 2018 when we had a very low rate of virulent flu.

The BBC reported [1]:


"There were around 50,100 excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017-18 - the highest since the winter of 1975-76, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.


"The increase is thought to be down to the flu, the ineffectiveness of the flu vaccine in older people and spells of very cold weather last winter."


The Daily Mail reported [2]:


"More than 50,000 excess deaths were recorded across England and Wales last winter, official figures show.


"Excess deaths refer to the amount of patients that died unexpectedly, calculated by comparing the mortality rate from winter months to the rest of the year.


"The shocking figures have been partially blamed on the deadly strains of flu that swept the nations over the colder months of December to March. "

How the media can change its tune depending on what is to be acheived! The above figures quoted were totally inaccurate for that year. In 2010 swine flu only 47000 excess deaths!

The point I try to make is why all the 'smoke and mirrors', propaganda statements which are easily undermined etc etc. Boris, bless his socks, in intensive care but in 'good spirits', nobody I ever saw there was concious and 2 days later taking a couple of short walks. If there was a dire medical emergency about to kill off the world one would not need such nonsense.
Amazing how the whole world went into lockdown, South Africa the day before us and they hadn't even had a recorded death. I see that WHO, the biggest private funders, as I have said previously, being Gates and pharmaceutical companies' are the only body to be able to state a 'pandemic' is occuring and their dictum overides any countries laws. Powerful stuff for a non-independant body, not democratically elected, not accountable to anyone but highly corrupt, see my earlier message regarding Tamiflu scandal in 2010.

What utter rubbish you spout.
As has been said before ...yawn ..yawn .. yawn ..

 

[T6 CFO]

Ah, the mainstream media, a couple of quotes from 2018 when we had a very low rate of virulent flu.

The BBC reported [1]:


"There were around 50,100 excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017-18 - the highest since the winter of 1975-76, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.


"The increase is thought to be down to the flu, the ineffectiveness of the flu vaccine in older people and spells of very cold weather last winter."


The Daily Mail reported [2]:


"More than 50,000 excess deaths were recorded across England and Wales last winter, official figures show.


"Excess deaths refer to the amount of patients that died unexpectedly, calculated by comparing the mortality rate from winter months to the rest of the year.


"The shocking figures have been partially blamed on the deadly strains of flu that swept the nations over the colder months of December to March. "

How the media can change its tune depending on what is to be acheived! The above figures quoted were totally inaccurate for that year. In 2010 swine flu only 47000 excess deaths!

The point I try to make is why all the 'smoke and mirrors', propaganda statements which are easily undermined etc etc. Boris, bless his socks, in intensive care but in 'good spirits', nobody I ever saw there was concious and 2 days later taking a couple of short walks. If there was a dire medical emergency about to kill off the world one would not need such nonsense.
Amazing how the whole world went into lockdown, South Africa the day before us and they hadn't even had a recorded death. I see that WHO, the biggest private funders, as I have said previously, being Gates and pharmaceutical companies' are the only body to be able to state a 'pandemic' is occuring and their dictum overides any countries laws. Powerful stuff for a non-independant body, not democratically elected, not accountable to anyone but highly corrupt, see my earlier message regarding Tamiflu scandal in 2010.

So basically a load of cut & paste from gawd knows where, a theory that Boris is in a conspiracy with Bill Gates and big pharmaceutical and South Africa should really have waited until a few hundred had died before they did anything.

Is that your point?


Mike

 

[Lightning]

BBC Radio 4 news this morning:

A 14% slump in the economy is expected over the next 3 months.

The impact of the lockdown on on death rates as a result of this may turn out to be higher than the virus itself.

Maybe DocBob has a point.

 

[Joker 1299]

BBC Radio 4 news this morning:

A 14% slump in the economy is expected over the next 3 months.

The impact of the lockdown on on death rates as a result of this may turn out to be higher than the virus itself.

Maybe DocBob has a point.

I’m sure he does, but he’s keeping it well hidden.

 

[Amarillo]

A 14% slump in the economy is expected over the next 3 months.

I think that is the lower end of the forecast. It is likely to be a much bigger slump than that. It may well rebound significantly during the quarter after that.

 

[HB19]

BBC Radio 4 news this morning:

A 14% slump in the economy is expected over the next 3 months.

The impact of the lockdown on on death rates as a result of this may turn out to be higher than the virus itself.

Maybe DocBob has a point.

Lightening . I am with you on this.
Surely a massive slump in the economy is exactly what we are all expecting !!
Surely we already understand that if operations and treatments are cancelled or postponed then people will suffer and some will die as a result !!
Surely we already understand that for some people this will be absolutely devastating and lives will be permanently marred !!
And we can all see that the young will be paying for this tragedy for many decades to come .. in all sorts of ways .. financially, emotionally .. !!
None of this is rocket science !!!!

However, CV19 is not an alien conspiracy !! .. or an American, Chinese, S African one .. It is a genuine global health emergency of unprecedented proportions. Has it been expected/predicted? Yes, of course it has, but the precise years, months weren’t forecast and any planning for this form of emergency has turned out to pretty inadequate in most countries.

One of the key things that sets this virus apart from other epidemics/pandemics is the speed of travel. This means that the numbers of very unwell patients overwhelms our health services in a way we have never seen before.

Left to its own devices .. ie., without intervention/lockdown .. it won’t be “just” the old and the vulnerable who die .. there will be a great many young and fit on that list.

So .. there are very few choices and as lockdowns are lifted and reapplied in the coming weeks and months more and more people will die but the speed of those deaths will be controlled. With that control the otherwise fit and healthy will have their best chance of survival .. and these people will be the ones we need to revive the economy.

Sadly, there are no good choices to be made and so governments throughout the world are choosing the options that show the most humanity .. trying to save as many people as they cans that there is some degree of control. No one really knows yet how this will all end .. it depends on progress with vaccine and tracing development .. but it won’t be normal again anytime soon .. and many, many more people will die.

 

[Lightning]

Lightening . I am with you on this.
Surely a massive slump in the economy is exactly what we are all expecting !!
Surely we already understand that if operations and treatments are cancelled or postponed then people will suffer and some will die as a result !!
Surely we already understand that for some people this will be absolutely devastating and lives will be permanently marred !!
And we can all see that the young will be paying for this tragedy for many decades to come .. in all sorts of ways .. financially, emotionally .. !!
None of this is rocket science !!!!

However, CV19 is not an alien conspiracy !! .. or an American, Chinese, S African one .. It is a genuine global health emergency of unprecedented proportions. Has it been expected/predicted? Yes, of course it has, but the precise years, months weren’t forecast and any planning for this form of emergency has turned out to pretty inadequate in most countries.

One of the key things that sets this virus apart from other epidemics/pandemics is the speed of travel. This means that the numbers of very unwell patients overwhelms our health services in a way we have never seen before.

Left to its own devices .. ie., without intervention/lockdown .. it won’t be “just” the old and the vulnerable who die .. there will be a great many young and fit on that list.

So .. there are very few choices and as lockdowns are lifted and reapplied in the coming weeks and months more and more people will die but the speed of those deaths will be controlled. With that control the otherwise fit and healthy will have their best chance of survival .. and these people will be the ones we need to revive the economy.

Sadly, there are no good choices to be made and so governments throughout the world are choosing the options that show the most humanity .. trying to save as many people as they cans that there is some degree of control. No one really knows yet how this will all end .. it depends on progress with vaccine and tracing development .. but it won’t be normal again anytime soon .. and many, many more people will die.

I only repeated what was said on the R4 news, which was along the lines of that the consequences of the solution being followed in the U.K. may have worse consequences than that the disease itself.
As Sweden seem to be following an alternative path, I suppose we will only find out in time.
I don’t know the answer, that’s for sure.

 

[LemonDrop]

I thought this was an interesting article (for me more interesting as you go on) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...lockdown-nature-bounces-back-but-for-how-long

It includes this:
"Hopes that the pandemic will accelerate the transition to a cleaner world are already running into a political wall: the “shock doctrine” of disaster capitalism outlined by the author and activist Naomi Klein. In her book of the same name, the Canadian writer describes how a powerful global elite exploits national crises to push through unpopular and extreme measures on the environment and labour rights.

This is what is happening in the United States and elsewhere. Oil company executives have lobbied Donald Trump for a bailout. Under the cover of the crisis, the White House has rolled back fuel-economy standards for the car industry, the Environmental Protection Agency has stopped enforcing environmental laws, three states have criminalised fossil fuel protesters and construction has resumed on the KXL oil pipeline. The US government’s massive economic stimulus bill also included a $50bn bailout for aviation companies. Environmental groups are urging the UK and European Union not to do the same."

Is that what you are talking about @docbob1?

 

[Velma's Dad]

Amazing how the whole world went into lockdown, South Africa the day before us and they hadn't even had a recorded death. I see that WHO, the biggest private funders, as I have said previously, being Gates and pharmaceutical companies' are the only body to be able to state a 'pandemic' is occuring and their dictum overides any countries laws. Powerful stuff for a non-independant body, not democratically elected, not accountable to anyone but highly corrupt, see my earlier message regarding Tamiflu scandal in 2010.

And international coordination in response a global infectious disease emergency is a bad thing because...???

As someone else said (but I wish I'd said it), having some countries in lockdown and others not in lockdown is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.

By the way, implying that the WHO has some kind of ability to override the sovereign government of any state is just nuts. I suggest you maybe go and read the WHO constitution.

[EDIT] And by the way (2): saying big pharma funds the WHO is also untrue. The WHO cannot accept donations from pharmaceutical companies.

 

[EddieEagle]

As someone else said (but I wish I'd said it), having some countries in lockdown and others not in lockdown is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.

Ah, now I understand why I was thrown out of the swimming baths !!

 

[Scoobz1]

BBC Radio 4 news this morning:

A 14% slump in the economy is expected over the next 3 months.

The impact of the lockdown on on death rates as a result of this may turn out to be higher than the virus itself.

Maybe DocBob has a point.

Do they really think it will only be 14% - EU and Britain - could be well over 50% if not you would wonder what all the people do at work when they are not sitting at home !

 

[T6 CFO]

What matters is that the majority will be short term whatever the numbers say.


Mike

 

[Digger]

The impact I would like to see is when this is over our country wakes up and recognises that it has to get back to being a manufacturing nation. China is back selling and making massive profits while we have sold off or closed our industrial heritage. This is not a political statement just a wish to see something positive come out of this disaster.

 

[westfalia]

The impact I would like to see is when this is over our country wakes up and recognises that it has to get back to being a manufacturing nation.

In your dreams bro,
wasn't there before so why would it all start again after the virus.

 

[Digger]

Just because we have little left does not mean we cannot achieve. I solve problems and do not believe anything is impossible given the will to succeed. We think of Germany as a manufacturing nation but they had to start from scratch a while back.
Nothing is impossible if you want to succeed.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Just because we have little left does not mean we cannot achieve. I solve problems and do not believe anything is impossible given the will to succeed. We think of Germany as a manufacturing nation but they had to start from scratch a while back.
Nothing is impossible if you want to succeed.

I would put all of that effort first into repairing the damaging cuts to the health care system, which we have all seen is basic to survival, and then to other goals like local manufacture.

 

[Jodalo]

I would put all of that effort first into repairing the damaging cuts to the health care system, which we have all seen is basic to survival, and then to other goals like local manufacture.

Not to mention the cuts to the Police, Fire service, Military, HMRC, Probation service, Social services, etc etc.

 

[HB19]

In a little while we might be wishing that we produced more of our own food. We currently import c40% of the food we eat and imports might start to get a bit tricky in the next few weeks and months. We have stocks but the ‘just in time’ system of imports means that stocks are not huge.

 

[WelshGas]

In a little while we might be wishing that we produced more of our own food. We currently import c40% of the food we eat and imports might start to get a bit tricky in the next few weeks and months. We have stocks but the ‘just in time’ system of imports means that stocks are not huge.

That works both ways though. The countries that manufacture that 40% need to sell it to someone or let it rot in the ground.

 

[HB19]

That works both ways though. The countries that manufacture that 40% need to sell it to someone or let it rot in the ground.

Yes, you are right. Food is a global commodity. But the raw product has got to be harvested, processed and then transported. This might be pretty difficult this year. The same principle applies to our food exports of course.
Most countries throughout the world rely on imported seasonal labour for harvesting and without the movement of people, this is going to be pretty tricky until quarantines are deemed unnecessary. Accommodation for these workers will also be more complex this year. The 2m rule won’t work well in a dormitory! .. so it’ll be much simpler if local labour is available.
Food processing is already struggling. So many people are self quarantining that everything works more slowly .. and each part of the chain is totally inter-dependent so the whole thing slows down and does less.
Also, with fewer lorries, trains, planes, ships zooming about the place to transport the food around the world, food choices will be restricted and haphazard.
I think food supply is going to be headline news throughout the summer. Thankfully, people are volunteering for the UK Land Army scheme and they are beginning to get allotted working roles, so that’ll be helpful for asparagus growers. The Land Army workers will be paid roles (rather than volunteers) and the government is working on ways in which furloughed workers can also work in agriculture for a period of time.
On a lighter note .. I hear that since the collapse of the food service industry there is a glut of fillet steak heading for frozen storage, but an expected shortage of UK chicken due to difficulties in processing and packing - as a result of labour shortages.

 

[T6 CFO]

Boris has been discharged.

Evidently off to Chequers to recuperate.

So who’s going to grumble about him going to a second home?


Mike

 

[Amarillo]

Boris has been discharged.

Evidently off to Chequers to recuperate.

So who’s going to grumble about him going to a second home?

Maybe the police who escort him to his second home will slap the £60 fine on him, reduced to £30 if he pays promptly.

I’ve been reading reports that the PM’s mishandling of the situation has been so poor that Britain may have more deaths than any other European country.

If true, will he be held to account for the unnecessary loss of life?