Coronavirus Impact

[T6 CFO]

Maybe the police who escort him to his second home will slap the £60 fine on him, reduced to £30 if he pays promptly.

I’ve been reading reports that the PM’s mishandling of the situation has been so poor that Britain may have more deaths than any other European country.

If true, will he be held to account for the unnecessary loss of life?

You didn’t disappoint which is good as it’s Easter and I already didn’t get my Easter egg.


Mike

 

[Jodalo]

Boris has been discharged.

Evidently off to Chequers to recuperate.

So who’s going to grumble about him going to a second home?


Mike

Does it really matter where he goes now? I thought once you’ve had covid 19 you cannot get it again or transmit it to others. Or have I misunderstood the situation?

 

[T6 CFO]

Does it really matter where he goes now? I thought once you’ve had covid 19 you cannot get it again or transmit it to others. Or have I misunderstood the situation?

It was humour.


Mike

 

[Jay gas]

Does it really matter where he goes now? I thought once you’ve had covid 19 you cannot get it again or transmit it to others. Or have I misunderstood the situation?

Not according to the 91 people in Daegu South Korea who have been tested for covid 19 and have apparently caught it a second time

 

[T6 CFO]

Not according to the 91 people in Daegu South Korea who have been tested for covid 19 and have apparently caught it a second time

Yes apparently or were never rid of the original. Early days in this epidemic yet I’m afraid.


Mike

 

[Jodalo]

Oh, sorry. Chortle.

 

[Amarillo]

No. He’ll just mess his hair up a bit, bluster some old nonsense, get his media to bury all the bad news as usual and say something populist to appease the idiots who support him. They’ll then just say “Ah good old Boris“

Sad, but probably true. Idolising populist leaders rarely or never has a good outcome.

 

[Moakesy]

What really gets me in all of this is the constant search for blame, ‘gotcha’ questions and the concept that someone (anyone) else could have automatically done better.

who is to say that another administration would have made better decisions. Do you blame Boris, or Corbyn for not being a better opposition? Does it matter a flying fluff right here or right now?

Why is it assumed that anything less than coming first (or lowest) in the league table is simply unacceptable? (A question which in itself leaves a bad taste in the mouth, implying that Britain must be superior to the rest of the world)

Whilst some seek to make political capital, the virus will continue to do its work. No amount of hindsight based ‘I told you so’ from politicians will change the reality (especially when they didn’t).

 

[GrannyJen]

What really gets me in all of this is the constant search for blame, ‘gotcha’ questions and the concept that someone (anyone) else could have automatically done better.

who is to say that another administration would have made better decisions. Do you blame Boris, or Corbyn for not being a better opposition? Does it matter a flying fluff right here or right now?

Why is it assumed that anything less than coming first (or lowest) in the league table is simply unacceptable? (A question which in itself leaves a bad taste in the mouth, implying that Britain must be superior to the rest of the world)

Whilst some seek to make political capital, the virus will continue to do its work. No amount of hindsight based ‘I told you so’ from politicians will change the reality (especially when they didn’t).

I have to agree with you. The sad banging of old drums and the tedious rehashing of old diatribe is totally irrelevant.

Until the public review takes place in the cold light of day after the event none of us frankly have got a clue as to what went wrong, what went right or what could have been done better.

 

[Digger]

One death is one too many. I would like to think we as sensible people would rather we helped to stop the spread and kept to the rules. No politics, no blame, just a desire to do what is right. This awful virus is the guilty one and sod all to do with Boris who is doing his best with what was available to him.

 

[Amarillo]

who is to say that another administration would have made better decisions. Do you blame Boris, or Corbyn for not being a better opposition? Does it matter a flying fluff right here or right now?

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing.

In this case, the Government had the benefit of hindsight. They could see the results South Korea and to a lesser extent, Germany had from extensive testing, and the disaster coming out from Italy and to a lesser extent Spain, yet decided to follow Italy's disastrous path not Korea's - and all the time experts from the WHO were advising against the path we were being taken on.

The fact that the US and Sweden are likely to fare even worse is no consolation.

The advice on PPE was even more stark. Another three nurses and two porters were reported dead from CV-19 yesterday, it would be tragic if confirmed that their deaths were the direct (or indirect) result of a lack of PPE. I have some sympathy with the PM barking up the wrong tree with the pregnancy style antibody test. It is not entirely his fault that the tests are unreliable, but he should not have placed all his eggs in one basket.

 

[WelshGas]

Now who was it that left that letter in the Treasury 10 yrs ago? You know, the one that led to all those years of austerity, reduction in Police, underfunding of Social Care and the NHS while the country struggled to balance the books and get the economy going?
Ahh, its just come to me. Thank goodness they weren't in power or we would have been well and truly screwed by the virus.

 

[westfalia]

Someone needs to start a Boris
This is about corona.

 

[GrannyJen]

So when one of the government’s own scientific advisors says that it looks like we will have the worst record for deaths in Europe and a Prime Minister who proudly ignored medical advice by insisting on shaking hands with infected patients, who’s government failed to participate in a European procurement initiative for ventilators, but awarded contracts to Conservative party supporting companies who have never made them, we should stand by and clap our support for their ineptitude?
Those in charge have to be challenged, otherwise they will not up their game l- regardless of good times or bad.
Whatever your political beliefs, the government is not a football team who should be blindly supported however well or badly they perform.
For me this is not about wanting the UK to be number one, but saving as many people’s lives as possible. Other countries are doing this by locking down as soon as possible, while ours dithered and gave out mixed messages.
I apologise if my views are annoying to some - GrannyJen - you seem a wonderful person, who otherwise is someone I admire, but for me, I find the unstinting support of someone who has let down his people equally tedious.
Love to ALL - and stay safe.

Good grief . I cannot believe anyone who may have read my pre-CV comments regarding Boris Johnson would call me an unstinting supporter!

I am an unstinting supporter of solidarity in the face of a crisis, we should get behind the leaders and that means allowing informed criticism to come forward, and the new leader of the Labour Party is showing just that sort of constructive restraint, preferring to talk to the experts and gather information before issuing judgement. However criticism based on largely political allegiance and nowt else is what I find tedious, why it was so refreshing to find the new opposition leader relating his intention in this crisis not to make political points for points sake.

I am sure many mistakes will have been made, inevitable in a fast moving and novel situation, certainly the IPPS will be shown to have been deeply flawed, the reluctance of ministers in 2017 to listen to advice that the strategy will fail, the shortcomings in the centralised Health system that failed to reach out to the private sector - something that has worked so well in Germany's favour, the failure of ministers, particularly the one at the top, to question the soundness of the scientific advice they listened to at the beginning, the failure to finance the NHS properly .... yes, all these issues and many more will come out of the independent review that will take place after this emergency is over, all I say is for now lets try and stop being divisive when none of us are in a position to form a truly informed opinion.

 

[Amarillo]

Now who was it that left that letter in the Treasury 10 yrs ago? You know, the one that led to all those years of austerity, reduction in Police, underfunding of Social Care and the NHS while the country struggled to balance the books and get the economy going?
Ahh, its just come to me. Thank goodness they weren't in power or we would have been well and truly screwed by the virus.

That letter was a silly act. But ten years on, it has absolutely nothing to do with the current pandemic or the current PM’s handling of it.

 

[GrannyJen]

Sorry Jen - I didn’t intend to imply that you were an ‘unstinting supporter’.
You are right though. Let’s not let this fuel our appetites for divisiveness - as if we need another brexit.
Anyway, here’s a nice picture to bring this down a degree or two.View attachment 57419

Beautiful xx

and yes, I think you have touched on something, I am not so much bruised, but wary by what happened in the Brexit discussions, how quickly it became polarised between "us and them", and if my desire to keep nudging towards a central ground has come over as supporting the current regime in number 10, then I can understand how it can be seen as such.

On a political level, I don't think Mr Johnson and myself could be further apart

 

[RodCouncil]

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The fact that the US and Sweden are likely to fare even worse is no consolation.

The fact that the US and Sweden are likely to fare even worse is no consolation.

Quite a crystal ball, nothing in the statistics suggest this, we are at 89 deaths per million whereas the UK is 145.

I wish neither to be true but in reality we just don’t know how the situation will develop in these countries with any decent precision, all three are not comparable.

 

[andyinluton]

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing.

In this case, the Government had the benefit of hindsight. They could see the results South Korea and to a lesser extent, Germany had from extensive testing, and the disaster coming out from Italy and to a lesser extent Spain, yet decided to follow Italy's disastrous path not Korea's - and all the time experts from the WHO were advising against the path we were being taken on.

The fact that the US and Sweden are likely to fare even worse is no consolation.

The advice on PPE was even more stark. Another three nurses and two porters were reported dead from CV-19 yesterday, it would be tragic if confirmed that their deaths were the direct (or indirect) result of a lack of PPE. I have some sympathy with the PM barking up the wrong tree with the pregnancy style antibody test. It is not entirely his fault that the tests are unreliable, but he should not have placed all his eggs in one basket.

So what would you have done?
Testing everyone is great if you’ve got the tests available.
PPE is a brilliant idea let’s just magic some up from nowhere.
If we had locked down 3 weeks earlier we would still have the same number of tests and same amount of PPE available today.
As the hospitals have not been overwhelmed what would be the point in reducing the number of cases? Don’t forget the rest of the country is some way behind London so in effect they have locked down earlier.
The only things that may have been sensible to do would be screening incoming people from abroad and cancelling large sports events earlier.

 

[WelshGas]

That letter was a silly act. But ten years on, it has absolutely nothing to do with the current pandemic or the current PM’s handling of it.

Beg to differ.

 

[Mickyb123]

Just wonder 10 years ago, had any govt, whatever colour, said tell you what we will do, we will pre plan for something we don’t know that’s going to happen. Tell you what let’s spends millions on Face Masks, gloves, apron, tell you what let’s order 1000s f ventilators that we don’t need at the moment but we are going to buy them anyway and keep them in storage! Just in case.
Yep now everybody would have been saying what brilliant foresight.
10 years ago though when that decision was being discussed there would have been uproar! Why spend money on stuff that you may never use, spend it on something we need now!
let’s stop knocking the Govt and Govts all over the world for doing what they had to do at the time they did it.
Their is a vid of George Bush as president saying preparations and planning for a viral pandemic should be considered, the current global finances at the time had other priorities.
This sort of thing has happened in the past, things will happen in the future, its impossible to predict what and if it’s going to happen, nature is a sneaky beast. So its always going to be a case of react after it happens and catch up.

 

[Lightning]

Just wonder 10 years ago, had any govt, whatever colour, said tell you what we will do, we will pre plan for something we don’t know that’s going to happen. Tell you what let’s spends millions on Face Masks, gloves, apron, tell you what let’s order 1000s f ventilators that we don’t need at the moment but we are going to buy them anyway and keep them in storage! Just in case.
Yep now everybody would have been saying what brilliant foresight.
10 years ago though when that decision was being discussed there would have been uproar! Why spend money on stuff that you may never use, spend it on something we need now!
let’s stop knocking the Govt and Govts all over the world for doing what they had to do at the time they did it.
Their is a vid of George Bush as president saying preparations and planning for a viral pandemic should be considered, the current global finances at the time had other priorities.
This sort of thing has happened in the past, things will happen in the future, its impossible to predict what and if it’s going to happen, nature is a sneaky beast. So its always going to be a case of react after it happens and catch up.

Finland is prepared.

Finland, ‘Prepper Nation of the Nordics,’ Isn’t Worried About Masks (Published 2020)

Unlike their neighbors, the Finns never stopped stockpiling after the Cold War. Now Finland sits on an enviable supply of medical and survival gear in the Covid-19 era.

www.nytimes.com

 

[SimonC]

Maybe the police who escort him to his second home will slap the £60 fine on him, reduced to £30 if he pays promptly.

I’ve been reading reports that the PM’s mishandling of the situation has been so poor that Britain may have more deaths than any other European country.

If true, will he be held to account for the unnecessary loss of life?

I haven’t seen a report with the words ‘may have more deaths’. But that is quite likely as we have the second highest population in Europe.

Admittedly Boris might have made a disproportionate contribution to the population size - but I don’t think we can blame him for all 67,809,271 (approximately).

 

[WelshGas]

The figures bandied about must be viewed in relation to Populations.

European Countries by Population (2024) - Worldometer

List of countries in Europe ranked by population, from the most populous. Growth rate, median age, fertility rate, area, density, population density, urbanization, urban population, share of world population.

www.worldometers.info

 

[Mickyb123]

Finland was prepared for Cold War invasion and possible chemical fall out from any conflict , not for a viral outbreak. So they got lucky they can now use those stocks.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Just wonder 10 years ago, had any govt, whatever colour, said tell you what we will do, we will pre plan for something we don’t know that’s going to happen. Tell you what let’s spends millions on Face Masks, gloves, apron, tell you what let’s order 1000s f ventilators that we don’t need at the moment but we are going to buy them anyway and keep them in storage! Just in case.

Isn't that why we spend £35 billion every year on defence? We buy billions' worth of stuff that we don't need at the moment, against the possibility of an assessed threat crystallising.

A viral pandemic was number one on the government's risks matrix for many years. It was deemed to be the most highly likely type of major threat to materialise AND to have the highest potential impact. The need for high volume diagnostic testing, PPE (of the right type, not just surgical masks and aprons), ventilators et al was entirely predictable under those scenarios.

It has been argued that the "military-industrial complex" (a massive component of the US political economy, but in our case not forgetting that the UK is the world's second largest defence exporter) perpetuates the disproportionate 'investment' in defence, rather than other public goods like health protection.

The optimist in me hopes that at some point we will become the world's second largest exporter - and potential consumer - of excellent biotech and healthcare products and services that protect our population from deadly threats to their health and well-being.