Disaster at sea

[larrylamb]

not really,if it was an ice fire, it doesn't change anything regarding ev fires. how about this scenario. an ice fire starts next to an ev. once the ev is alight the fire brigade is stuffed.

but it's the ICE to blame for the fire.

 

[Corradobrit]

but it's the ICE to blame for the fire.

But the EV is inherently problematic. It may not be the initator but will make a bad situation, catastrophic. There are effective ways to deal with fossil fuel fires, but Li is a completely different kettle of fish.
Fire service are saying no sprinklers were installed in the carpark.

 

[ArunAlec]

EV or ICE, hope the owner of the fire starter has protected NCB! Could be a lot of claims against them + rebuild of car park + airlines claims.

 

[andyinluton]

EV or ICE, hope the owner of the fire starter has protected NCB! Could be a lot of claims against them + rebuild of car park + airlines claims.

No, it's down to your own insurance unless the there is negligence involved.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

As more EV fires get reported the knock on effects will accelerate. One Norwegian ferry company has already banned EVs for safety reasons. What if other ferry companies and the Shuttle follow suit? Every UK EV owner would be unable to travel to Europe.

 

[larrylamb]

I think the fire service are saying wind from the open sides fed the fire, regardless of car type once a couple of cars alight it probably spread very quickly and beyond the fire services capability. Wasn't there a similar huge car park fire at a Liverpool concert venue recently?

 

[andyinluton]

Chief fire officer says a the source was a car that arrived before the fire started - I wonder how many years of training it takes to be able to come to that sort of conclusion.

 

[andyinluton]

I think the fire service are saying wind from the open sides fed the fire,

If it didn't have open sides they wouldn't have been able to get as many water jets on it as they did. Also allowed them to wet the other cars to try & stop the further spread. Also gives excellent visibility as to where the fire is & allows the firefighters to try and deal with it without having to be inside the building so a lot safer.

 

[Borris]

Given the intensity and speed at which it spread my bet is on a Li battery failure. I'm guessing there is no sprinkler system installed in such an open air design. That wouldn't help extinguish a Li fire but would have extinguished a different source of ignition.
Occurrences like this are going to be be increasingly prevalent and is going to be a huge headache anywhere Li battery containing vehicles are stored.
I see a mandate for LiFePO4 battery tech in vehicles purely on safety grounds.

Has anyone said that the initial fire involved a BEV? Yes, it could have been but lets be clear, any car fire has the potential to escalate rapidly. Perhaps, not quite so spactacularly as some of the BEV fire videos have shown but never the less, rapid fire escalation in ICE vehicles is not uncommon. If that car fire is situated in a crowded open sided carpark then it could spread rapidly once the initial fire has taken hold. Having seen the photos, clearly there would have been no shortage of O2 or fuel so all it needed was for the fire to grow to a point where sufficient heat had been produced to involve the vehicles on either side thereby starting a chain reaction. The emergency services wouldn't have been in attendance immediately and when they did arrive they would be playing catch up.

Only time will tell if any fire suppression system was installed and if it operated? However, cars have roofs, bonnets and boots to repel the rain and keep the vehicle dry inside. Sprinklers would therefore only ever supress the fire and buy time for the Fire Service to react.

As for the structure, unprotected bare steel elements lose half of their structural strength between 600 and 650 degrees centigrade. Protected structural elements would have retained their integrity for longer. So partial collapse is always a possibility in such structures.

 

[larrylamb]

Diesel car is thought to be the likely cause.

 

[Corradobrit]

Diesel car is thought to be the likely cause.

with "lots of electric vehicles potentially involved quite early on".

 

[larrylamb]

Some interesting observations in this report from the Liverpool car park fire re diesel burning properties, modern car manufacturing and tightly packed car park spaces.

Liverpool Car Park Fire note

Liverpool Car Park Fire - What Happened?

anbeal.co.uk

 

[flying banana]

Diesel car is thought to be the likely cause.

possibly,maybe the car 12v battery ? diesel itself will not ignite at ambient temperatures as its combustible,not flammable. however in intense fire already burning it will burn slowly

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Diesel car is thought to be the likely cause.

Diesel fuel doesn’t ignite does it?

 

[flying banana]

Diesel fuel doesn’t ignite does it?

Has a high flash point. If you chuck a match in diesel it qont ignite,no.

 

[Wildcamper]

If the diesel is warm it will.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82368279.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiu84jb7-2BAxXZ_rsIHXiEAZYQFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3NtnojADhomgeYQXO9iNSn

 

[Corradobrit]

Not unheard of. VW Group had a recall several years ago for fire hazard.

VW recalls 17,000 vehicles due to fire risk

Starter motor fault affects nine models including the Golf, Passat and Tiguan

www.whatcar.com

 

[Corradobrit]

And another

Volkswagen Recalls 91,000 Diesel-Engine Passats Over Fire Concerns

Volkswagen’s diesel-engine vehicles haven’t exactly had a great few months, what with federal regulators finding that 500,000 of the vehicles contain “defeat devices” that cheat emissio…

consumerist.com

 

[oliver100]

Do we need to start thinking about banning diesel cars from multi-storey car parks

 

[flying banana]

both those stories are elctrical fires.nothing to do with the fact they were diesels, most stationary cars that catch fire will be down to electrics and battery starting the blaze

 

[Ch1pbutty]

. What if other ferry companies and the Shuttle follow suit? Every UK EV owner would be unable to travel to Europe.

They would just take their Cali instead

 

[ArunAlec]

No, it's down to your own insurance unless the there is negligence involved.

Comment was tongue in cheek

 

[vmaxkiddy]

The picture I’ve seen of the supposed offending diesel vehicle shows the fire to be on its left side. If I remember correctly the motive battery on some models of MHEV/PHEV Range Rovers is on the left side of the floor pan. So it could well be a diesel but also a partial EV.

 

[Calimili]

Have you guys read the accident of a bus near Venice little more than a week ago ?
Spanking new electric bus, 20 dead. Most deaths and injuries from burns rather than from the 15metres fall. The chassis , being full batteries, crashed the bus structures whn overturned, trapping some people inside a fire that the fire brigade couldn't put out.
Would have been diferent in a diesel bus ? Hard to tell, but a lot of development has gone into making diesel (or petrol for that matter) tank safe in case of accidents. The bus would have not weighted as much...
It looks to me that all these fires of EVs that can't be put out, is a reason to rethink if at least some type of battery should be used in vehicles or not. Of course the safest type is the heaviest and the more expensive.
Did the Co2 emission calculation of EV during the cycle take into account the CO2 emitted during a fire times the probability of such fire happening ?

 

[Borris]

Why not wait until the investigation report is made public. That fires occur in vehicles, is a fact. The motive power source isn't that important as fires can and do occur in vehicles with all types for a variety of reasons. Once established and involving other vehicles, the fire will spread very quickly regardless of what caused it.