Goodbye Brussels, hello Burnley.

[motacyclist]

Nice idea, but unfortunately little chance when we end up with an unelected OUT supporter as PM.

I'm getting the feeling that he hasn't a clue what to do next. He should have listened to his Dad!

 

[WelshGas]

From another Forum, but sums up what we should all be doing.

 

[Amarillo]

I trust you will be the one to treat the injured, bury the dead and pay for the damage.

1. Conservative MPs (the majority of whom support remain) need to select a leader who is prepared to formally invoke article 50, or there needs to be a general election and the leader of the winning political party is prepared to invoke article 50.
2. Scotland must be denied a second referendum, or, if allowed a second referendum, must vote to remain in the UK a second time.

If Scotland is allowed a second referendum, and votes to leave the UK, the UK will no longer exist and so cannot leave the European Union.

 

[motacyclist]

This just appeared on my Facebook feed:-

From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.


The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

 

[Sp0_0k]

but sums up what we should all be doing.

Looks pretty ironical on a forum where 99% goods discussed aren't from UK

 

[Geezso]

To say buy British is easy. But what is British these days? Pork, bacon, chicken and such generally from Holland if not greater EU.
Nissan cars are built here as Japans route to market. As they have an alliance with Renault they may move to France, Portugal, Spain etc.
Building materials are mostly imported, paper too.
What British made electricals are there? Norfrost? They make good tv's . Our utilities are foreign owned, as are our football clubs.
I could attempt to go on, but buying British, although I would love to, would be very difficult.

 

[kave]

I guess Buy British and stay at home sums up the leave woters pretty well. We dont want to go abroad and we dont want forreigners in the uk etc.
The leave marketing has circulated in swedish press, disgusting images of queing people in romania is used to scare people off. Never thought UK would drop as low as USA.
I wonder if the UK rebate on the EU fee will be cancelled the next two years.

 

[WelshGas]

Exactly - and who sells it to us - and do they want to lose that market?

 

[aileron346]

To say buy British is easy. But what is British these days? Pork, bacon, chicken and such generally from Holland if not greater EU.
Nissan cars are built here as Japans route to market. As they have an alliance with Renault they may move to France, Portugal, Spain etc.
Building materials are mostly imported, paper too.
What British made electricals are there? Norfrost? They make good tv's . Our utilities are foreign owned, as are our football clubs.
I could attempt to go on, but buying British, although I would love to, would be very difficult.

Precisely. With a few honourable exceptions (Bilbo, Jerba??) look at camper conversions and, even more so, caravans.


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[Annik]

Reading in the paper today about what Brexit could do to car imports over the next few years, especially anything manafactured in the EU(outside of the UK). We could be looking at a 12% price increase which would make the California silly money. They might even stop selling it in the UK? Sad times

 

[Geezso]

Exactly - and who sells it to us - and do they want to lose that market?

They will lose the market if we buy British, so they wont be able to do anything.
In a global economy it seems ridiculous to retreat into our cave and cry self sufficiency.
I really hope this goes as bad as possible for the tories to end them once and for all. Then we can rebuild.

It makes as much sense as a vegan shopping in the butchers.

 

[GrannyJen]

Precisely. With a few honourable exceptions (Bilbo, Jerba??) look at camper conversions and, even more so, caravans.


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All built on VW Transporter base vehicles,

or all the motorhomes built on Fiat, Merc or Peugeot base vehicles.

Does anyone really think "buy British" will ever happen? We heard that all through the 60's when we were begging to join the EU and De Gaulle was saying "NON"....

The buy British fizzled out for me when I was employed by British Leyland making people redundant as everyone was buying "foreign cars". I sat and watched that woman from the fruit growers association on Television bleating about the influx of EC "Golden Delicious" apples making poor Kent growers struggle, and then after her interview she got into her Peugeot and drove off.

 

[aileron346]

I'm certainly not a Tory but I do think the kind of one-nation moderate Tory party of old does have a place on British political life. The recent lurch to the more extreme right is worrying just as an extreme left regime would be worrying. Surely The U.K. Is a happier place broadly united in the moderate centre-ish of politics?


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[GrannyJen]

My absolute (pipe) dream at this moment is that the totally ineffectual labour party front bench, or even just the leader, is replaced: the tory moderates replace Cameron and Kim Jong Osborne. Someone like Theresa May, a grudging eurosceptic "remain" forms a coalition government of national unity to extricate ourselves after filing for divorce, with a promise to hold a general election 6 months post divorce absolute.

 

[aileron346]

Yes. Agree with this. It would be great for national unity and acknowledge that in reality 52:48 is a split decision, albeit a narrow win. Moderates in all sides please come and rescue ...


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[Keith Smith]

It's unfortunate that many people who wish to leave the EU do so with an almost religious zeal and any then common sense, and compromise, goes out the window. Anyway Cameron, after making such a mess of it, has finally played a blinder and may have paved the way for us to stay, only time will tell.

 

[marshian70]

What frustrates me hugely in all this is not the OUT voters, who used their democratic right to vote, but the millions who did not vote at all. Can anyone hand on heart say this decision is truly that of the British people? Of the 72% that voted, OK, just, but given the narrowness of the result and that I suspect more who wanted OUT would have voted than those in favour of staying in. A lot of them are now probably regretting their complacency.
I hope the Scot's find a way to stop it.

 

[estresao]

All built on VW Transporter base vehicles,

or all the motorhomes built on Fiat, Merc or Peugeot base vehicles.

Does anyone really think "buy British" will ever happen? We heard that all through the 60's when we were begging to join the EU and De Gaulle was saying "NON"....

The buy British fizzled out for me when I was employed by British Leyland making people redundant as everyone was buying "foreign cars". I sat and watched that woman from the fruit growers association on Television bleating about the influx of EC "Golden Delicious" apples making poor Kent growers struggle, and then after her interview she got into her Peugeot and drove off.

You can convert a McLaren, that campervan should be Britsh enought..... will they sell McLaren California Beach or just SEs

 

[Geezso]

The McLaren Mercedes lol

 

[2into1]

Some interesting information in the link below on how the rest of the world manages to trade with the EU (in summary, rather well), and an argument that WTO tariffs (4%) would be cheaper than the cost of being a member (but that opens the £350m a week argument).
Plus, whatever the EU charge the UK in tariffs, will be more than offset by what we will charge them in retaliation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-can-leave-the-eu-and-have-access-to-the-sin/
As for Cali's : I can't see someone who is able to spend £60k on one being phased by 3% more. When vw raise prices, it's normally viewed as being "good for residuals".

 

[leightonjthomas]

All I can say is that, after three days of reflection, reading, listening and watching, my whole family are still deeply upset, even though the decision will harm other people far more than it will directly harm us. For the first time in my life I feel ashamed to be British and have no idea where we go from here, the latter feeling being probably the only emotion I will ever share with Johnson and Gove.

 

[GrannyJen]

My other (pip

You can convert a McLaren, that campervan should be Britsh enought..... will they sell McLaren California Beach or just SEs

I just can't wait to climb into a Jaguar XK pop top

 

[WelshGas]

All I can say is that, after three days of reflection, reading, listening and watching, my whole family are still deeply upset, even though the decision will harm other people far more than it will directly harm us. For the first time in my life I feel ashamed to be British and have no idea where we go from here, the latter feeling being probably the only emotion I will ever share with Johnson and Gove.

If you are so ashamed of being British and not prepared to accept the Democratic will of the People then you only have one decision to make , which EU country to emigrate to!
Of course, if the vote had gone your way then I very much doubt if you would be posting anything at all. It's done, Live with it. I'm afraid life's like that. We don't always get what we want in life.

 

[leightonjthomas]

Thanks for disagreeing Welshgas but I can't quite work out whether you disagree that my family are upset, or that the decision will harm others more than ourselves, or that I feel ashamed to be British (or Welsh for that matter) or just that I have nothing in common with Johnson and Gove?

 

[leightonjthomas]

Thanks. You've just explained exactly why, at this moment, I feel ashamed to be British, or Welsh. In time I will, no doubt, become proud again and, despite being a fellow countryman, thank God I do not share your selfish, arrogant conceited values.