ID Buzz

[sidepod]

The EV and electric world in general is a marketing dream. We will all pay through the nose.

I’ve watched it for around 2 years now in the eMtb world. Slowly each and every cycle component has been rebranded as Ebike specific. Genious.

What’s more comical is the fact punters lap it up.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Oh we have EV specific tyres too? Marketing department are earning their keep!

Because of the additional weight etc..

Good marketing but seems to make sense:

Electric vehicle tyres – Everything you need to know | Continental tyres

Electric mobility is driving sustainable transport. Find out more about the high-tech tires that keep e-cars rolling into an emission-free future.

www.continental-tyres.co.uk

 

[sidepod]

Because of the additional weight.

Behave.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Well looking at it from the side of the manufacturer, with only 20 moving parts in a typical EV vs 2000 in ICE, there will be less opportunity to gouge the consumer on the backend with exorbitant servicing and maintenance/parts charges.

+ live software updates over your home WIFI.

No need to waste your time waiting to get booked into the dealership, then more time wasted on round trip to / from the dealer.

Hopefully VW will offer live updates, rather than just relying on the experts in their service department to load an update.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I’ve watched it for around 2 years now in the eMtb world. Slowly each and every cycle component has been rebranded as Ebike specific. Genious.

What’s more comical is the fact punters lap it up.

I’m still trying to figure out eMtb pricing.
It’s as if they pick a number from thin air…

 

[Wildcamper]

Question.
What proportion of the oil actually pumped from the ground is refined and used to actually power IC vehicles?

Use of oil - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

The types and amounts of petroleum products consumed annually in the United States, and a list of the top 5 gasoline consuming states.

www.eia.gov

 

[ive_california]

+ live software updates over your home WIFI.

No need to waste your time waiting to get booked into the dealership, then more time wasted on round trip to / from the dealer.

Hopefully VW will offer live updates, rather than just relying on the experts in their service department to load an update.

Life software updates over your home wifi? No sir, vw won't do that and you really don't want it.

It would enable nerds like me to easily hack your vehicle, lock the doors and disable the brakes.

Software security will become a major topic for cars.

I have owned and / or still own electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles. One of the reasons I have bought a California recently is to own a vehicle which lasts forever and isn't all electronic.

I have first hand experience with the 'quirks and features' of an electric vehicle. It's great, but it certainly isn't for everyone.

Before buying an electric vehicle, you should definitely work out how you will charge it. Preferably at home. If that is possible : great, you will probably become a happy owner. If not, you should seriously consider buying another type of vehicle.

Also, I really don't understand how you could make an electric version of the California work. Range will be all over the place (from 150 km up to max 400 km for the 77 kw version). Doing a big trip through Europe will be a huge challenge.

I can go on and on, but electric driving will remain a challenge for people who can't charge at home. That's a fact.


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[Corradobrit]

Life software updates over your home wifi? No sir, vw won't do that and you really don't want it.

It would enable nerds like me to easily hack your vehicle, lock the doors and disable the brakes.

Software security will become a major topic for cars.

I have owned and / or still own electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles. One of the reasons I have bought a California recently is to own a vehicle which lasts forever and isn't all electronic.

I have first hand experience with the 'quirks and features' of an electric vehicle. It's great, but it certainly isn't for everyone.

Before buying an electric vehicle, you should definitely work out how you will charge it. Preferably at home. If that is possible : great, you will probably become a happy owner. If not, you should seriously consider buying another type of vehicle.

Also, I really don't understand how you could make an electric version of the California work. Range will be all over the place (from 150 km up to max 400 km for the 77 kw version). Doing a big trip through Europe will be a huge challenge.

I can go on and on, but electric driving will remain a challenge for people who can't charge at home. That's a fact.


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A camper version will be built on a longer range battery like the 110kW which is the only iteration of the Buzz being exported to the USA.

Funny you mention the quirks of modern electric cars. My Dad who lives in the UK just replaced a hybrid Hyundai with a plugin hybrid Audi. So far he has had no end of issues with the 12 month old Audi. Like not holding a charge on the main battery, electrical gremlins preventing the car from starting etc. It is currently undergoing diagnostics to determine the cause. He's 84, lives in a rural village and doesn't need these hassles in his life, just a reliable conveyance that starts and goes when he needs to use it.

 

[Corradobrit]

+ live software updates over your home WIFI.

No need to waste your time waiting to get booked into the dealership, then more time wasted on round trip to / from the dealer.

Hopefully VW will offer live updates, rather than just relying on the experts in their service department to load an update.

I see fee-based software upgrades as being a revenue source for manufacturers. (not unlike BMW trying to charge a subscription to turn on certain features like the heated seats). I'm not liking where this could be going.

 

[WelshGas]

Use of oil - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

The types and amounts of petroleum products consumed annually in the United States, and a list of the top 5 gasoline consuming states.

www.eia.gov

Interesting?

What is the outlook for U.S. petroleum consumption?​

In the Annual Energy Outlook 2022 Reference case, the U.S. Energy Information Administration projects U.S. total consumption of petroleum and other liquids to increase in most years through 2050. Total consumption levels of petroleum and other liquids are projected to be about 14% greater in 2050 than in 2021. Liquid fuels will account for about 36% to 38% of total annual U.S. energy consumption through 2050.

 

[soulstyledevon]

A camper version will be built on a longer range battery like the 110kW which is the only iteration of the Buzz being exported to the USA.

Funny you mention the quirks of modern electric cars. My Dad who lives in the UK just replaced a hybrid Hyundai with a plugin hybrid Audi. So far he has had no end of issues with the 12 month old Audi. Like not holding a charge on the main battery, electrical gremlins preventing the car from starting etc. It is currently undergoing diagnostics to determine the cause. He's 84, lives in a rural village and doesn't need these hassles in his life, just a reliable conveyance that starts and goes when he needs to use it.

Don’t let him buy a Mercedes GLA.
One of my work colleagues has one, it’s spent six and a half months of its 9 month life in a Merc dealership. Problem after problem after problem.
That’s just a standard petrol model too…

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I see fee-based software upgrades as being a revenue source for manufacturers. (not unlike BMW trying to charge a subscription to turn on certain features like the heated seats). I'm not liking where this could be going.

Not much different for charging £ for options at source.

Manufacturer can build one model to make manufacturing faster, and then just activate the features / options that the buyer has paid for. If you decide you want an extra after delivery, just pay to have it switched on.

 

[chockswahay]

Not much different for charging £ for options at source.

Manufacturer can build one model to make manufacturing faster, and then just activate the features / options that the buyer has paid for. If you decide you want an extra after delivery, just pay to have it switched on.

That’s true, just think how many cars have had the same wiring loom at build yet you have to pay extra for some of the goodies……often easily enabled by an after market OBD type of device…….. so not really much different

 

[sidepod]

I’m still trying to figure out eMtb pricing.
It’s as if they pick a number from thin air…

I was admiring a new Trek last week…….£14k!! WTAF?

 

[clarinetbcn]

Well looking at it from the side of the manufacturer, with only 20 moving parts in a typical EV vs 2000 in ICE, there will be less opportunity to gouge the consumer on the backend with exorbitant servicing and maintenance/parts charges.

VW has announced that switching to EVs will result in the company laying off 30% of their workforce, since they are so much simpler to assemble. And they can sell them at a premium above ICEs. That's why VW and other manufacturers are going all in.

 

[Corradobrit]

VW has announced that switching to EVs will result in the company laying off 30% of their workforce, since they are so much simpler to assemble. And they can sell them at a premium above ICEs. That's why VW and other manufacturers are going all in.

Its also self preservation. Come 2030 they won't be able to sell any of their primary products running diesel and petrol in the UK. And 2035 in the rest of Europe. The death knell tolls for dinosaur juice ICE.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Its also self preservation. Come 2030 they won't be able to sell any of their primary products running diesel and petrol in the UK. And 2035 in the rest of Europe. The death knell tolls for dinosaur juice ICE.

ICE Cali is a future classic!

 

[Corradobrit]

ICE Cali is a future classic!

I see it going the way of the last air-cooled Porsche, the 993. Sold mine in 2020 for double what I paid in 2010. The ICE Cali will be an accruing asset, mark my words.

 

[clarinetbcn]

This is why I find the ID Buzz a disappointment, poor use of space in order to share a platform with the ID 4. Everything forward of the front door frame has no practical use, adds weight and restricts forward vision. It's a stick on chunk of weight intended to disguise its lack of space efficiency. T5/6 owners would not accept the long hood, but does VW think we're too dumb to see what they've done? It's a fake, intended to evoke a classic, and that puts me off.

I was on board for the reduction of interior space when the over the axle front seats of the T1/2/3 were moved behind the front axle on the T4 for safety reasons, and to move the engine up front without having it intrude in the cabin. This model throws away the advantage of having an electric motor up front in 4WD versions which is a fraction of the size of an ICE. I find no use for this further reduction of space, other than VW saving money by using a car platform. I don't like being patronized by VW saying this is the return of the classic van while actually putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Interesting?

What is the outlook for U.S. petroleum consumption?​

In the Annual Energy Outlook 2022 Reference case, the U.S. Energy Information Administration projects U.S. total consumption of petroleum and other liquids to increase in most years through 2050. Total consumption levels of petroleum and other liquids are projected to be about 14% greater in 2050 than in 2021. Liquid fuels will account for about 36% to 38% of total annual U.S. energy consumption through 2050.

When oil is refined does petrol and diesel still have to be part of the process when all the other products are produced ? If so, what will happen to all that fuel produced as a by product?

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Another fact of EV life is the recommended battery charge state of 10-80% to prolong battery life, quoted ranges however are for a fully charged battery. So the 200 miles in the brochure for example, is really only 140 miles. Not that first owners will care what happens after the lease has finished and it’s off to the second hand market.

 

[sidepod]

This is why I find the ID Buzz a disappointment, poor use of space in order to share a platform with the ID 4. Everything forward of the front door frame has no practical use, adds weight and restricts forward vision. It's a stick on chunk of weight intended to disguise its lack of space efficiency. T5/6 owners would not accept the long hood, but does VW think we're too dumb to see what they've done? It's a fake, intended to evoke a classic, and that puts me off.

I was on board for the reduction of interior space when the over the axle front seats of the T1/2/3 were moved behind the front axle on the T4 for safety reasons, and to move the engine up front without having it intrude in the cabin. This model throws away the advantage of having an electric motor up front in 4WD versions which is a fraction of the size of an ICE. I find no use for this further reduction of space, other than VW saving money by using a car platform. I don't like being patronized by VW saying this is the return of the classic van while actually putting lipstick on a pig.

View attachment 103030View attachment 103032

I’ve worked on the design of several EVs in the last couple of years and it does amaze me just how much stuff is in there despite the removal of the IC unit/tranny. A big chunk of the bonnet volume will be the inverter and cooling.
All very disappointing really.

 

[sidepod]

Another fact of EV life is the recommended battery charge state of 10-80% to prolong battery life, quoted ranges however are for a fully charged battery. So the 200 miles in the brochure for example, is really only 140 miles. Not that first owners will care what happens after the lease has finished and it’s off to the second hand market.

There seems to be a strong “flip it and take the cash “ undercurrent in this thread so, bin your principles and get rich. Just the kind of attitude that’s helped get the planet in the state it’s in.

Just an observation.

 

[ive_california]

I see it going the way of the last air-cooled Porsche, the 993. Sold mine in 2020 for double what I paid in 2010. The ICE Cali will be an accruing asset, mark my words.

Cali has retained its value remarkably well. It will probably become more valuable going forward. We have bought our 6.1 to keep long-term. It has already become a part of the family, it has personality!

One of my issues with the whole EV-thing is the limited lifetime such a vehicle has. Similar to a mobile phone, the performance of the battery will worsen by using it. Besides, what happens to the car you sell when you buy an EV? It will keep riding and polluting, isn't it?

That is why I will keep the Cali 6.1 long-term and probably combine it with a small EV once the technology has settled.

I currently have a passat gte and really love that car as it gives much more car for the money than eg an ID 4.


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[ive_california]

There seems to be a strong “flip it and take the cash “ undercurrent in this thread so, bin your principles and get rich. Just the kind of attitude that’s helped get the planet in the state it’s in.

Just an observation.

For me, the high residual value simply allows us to properly maintain the vehicle long-term. It makes financial sense.


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