Is 4 motion really necessary?

[briwy]

Are we suddenly part of the US.
I always thought tires was spelt with a y. Have we all got trunks and fenders as well

 

[Bellcrew]

Are we suddenly part of the US.
I always thought tires was spelt with a y. Have we all got trunks and fenders as well

I have an American daughter in law and she is a one women language changer, we poop, change diapers, wear pantyhose and pop trunks, just lie back and accept it.

 

[Borris]

I have an American daughter in law and she is a one women language changer, we poop, change diapers, wear pantyhose and pop trunks, just lie back and accept it.

Never.
We used to have railway stations but now they are train stations, lifts are now elevators. My grand children now refer to sweets as candy and why is everything awesome? BTW I don't wear pantyhose either.

 

[ArunAlec]

Are we suddenly part of the US.
I always thought tires was spelt with a y. Have we all got trunks and fenders as well

Noticed a few Mom’s appearing too!

 

[soulstyledevon]

Most Americans wish they were British, or at least sounded British. Obviously not Black Country British, but you know what I mean

 

[clarinetbcn]

Most Americans wish they were British, or at least sounded British. Obviously not Black Country British, but you know what I mean

The second classicist statement almost outshines the first chauvinistic one, I think in your heart you are really French!

 

[Velma's Dad]

Reminds me of the three categories of people as recognised by a Yorkshireman:
1. Other Yorkshiremen.
2. Folk as would like to be Yorkshiremen.
3. Them as has no bloody ambition at all.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Reminds me of the three categories of people as recognised by a Yorkshireman:
1. Other Yorkshiremen.
2. Folk as would like to be Yorkshiremen.
3. Them as has no bloody ambition at all.

You forgot the fourth option,

4. The lucky, intelligent and blessed ones that managed to escape...
My wife thankfully falls into category four

 

[WelshGas]

To get back on Topic.

YES.

There is much more to 4Motion than dealing with snow, mud or wet grass.

The correct tyres will deal with those occasional occurrences but 4Motion adds to the driving experience.

 

[andyinluton]

4Motion adds to the driving experience.

I'm at a loss to know how it adds to the driving experience - other than allowing more frequent visits to the petrol station.

At the end of the day its a 3 tonne brick not a sports car.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I'm at a loss to know how it adds to the driving experience - other than allowing more frequent visits to the petrol station.

At the end of the day its a 3 tonne brick not a sports car.

This debate will run and run. It's the same with any car/vehicle that has 2WD and 4WD options: some folks like the idea of having 4WD/AWD as they feel it makes the vehicle better to drive. You hear things like "it feels more sure-footed" or "planted". I don't really know what those things mean, TBH. But they're entitled to their opinion and how they spend their cash.

We have both 4WD and 2WD vehicles in the family 'fleet' at the moment but like most of us I'm never going to get to do a back-to-back test drives between different options of the exact same vehicle. A 4WD/AWD system is heavier for a start, so the thing is bound to feel more 'planted' I suppose.

But in normal conditions, ie not in snow, mud or on a race track, when driving a vehicle with selectable 4WD I've never been able to tell whether it's switched on or off.

 

[WelshGas]

I'm at a loss to know how it adds to the driving experience - other than allowing more frequent visits to the petrol station.

At the end of the day its a 3 tonne brick not a sports car.

Depends where you drive

 

[WelshGas]

This debate will run and run. It's the same with any car/vehicle that has 2WD and 4WD options: some folks like the idea of having 4WD/AWD as they feel it makes the vehicle better to drive. You hear things like "it feels more sure-footed" or "planted". I don't really know what those things mean, TBH. But they're entitled to their opinion and how they spend their cash.

We have both 4WD and 2WD vehicles in the family 'fleet' at the moment but like most of us I'm never going to get to do a back-to-back test drives between different options of the exact same vehicle. A 4WD/AWD system is heavier for a start, so the thing is bound to feel more 'planted' I suppose.

But in normal conditions, ie not in snow, mud or on a race track, when driving a vehicle with selectable 4WD I've never been able to tell whether it's switched on or off.

Then maybe you should undertake a back to back comparison of the same vehicle with a 4Motion system or FWD only and then you’ll understand the difference.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Then maybe you should undertake a back to back comparison of the same vehicle with a 4Motion system or FWD only and then you’ll understand the difference.

Have you then? I mean the EXACT same vehicle, with the 2WD one loaded with 70kg of sandbags (or whatever the weight of the 4Mo drivetrain is)?

Double-blind test, mind..

 

[WelshGas]

Have you then? I mean the EXACT same vehicle, with the 2WD one loaded with 70kg of sandbags (or whatever the weight of the 4Mo drivetrain is)?

Double-blind test, mind..

Yes, back in 2014, 2 180 SEs one a 4 Motion. 48 hrs back to back same roads and same milage in mid-Wales. And before you ask, same tyres and similar mileages.
That convinced me that a 3 ton brick needed drive front and back.

And no, I didn’t load the FWD with 70 Kgm of sand. The additional weight of the 4Motion may well help the planted feel as did the lack of wheel spin and the positive steering and feedback on windy wet roads. It can rain a lot in Wales.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Okay fair dos. Although still not a blind test.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against 4WD on a campervan and it would have got me out of a bit of faffing on muddy ground a couple of times. But there's just such a lot of non-specific BS about 4WD in cars generally. It's often like automotive homeopathy and worse because it encourages some people to drive around like tw@ts thinking it will magically keep them on the road or stop faster.

I lived in S Wales as a teenager and learnt to drive around the Valleys so I know how much it rains there. But I stick by my point that under 'normal' road conditions you won't notice any difference. In Peru this year I drove a couple of thousand miles in an expeditionised Hilux and one day forgot to drop back into 2WD for an on- road section but didn't notice a jot of difference in the way it handled until a bit of tyre squeal gave the game away. (Okay I know that's 4WD not AWD, yada yada).

On the Cali it adds about £3k which is I guess reasonable compared to some of the options (I mean £1,600 for LED lights, come on...!).

Probably still wouldn't have it on the next Cali, although you never know.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I'm at a loss to know how it adds to the driving experience - other than allowing more frequent visits to the petrol station.

At the end of the day its a 3 tonne brick not a sports car.

It’s sounds like a load of nonsense to me too.

I can see the benefits on 1500kg, 300 bhp hot hatch like the Golf R.
A van, hmmm...???

To be fair, I think 4 motion would be advantageous on the 204 van, but purely for standing start traction. After that, I don’t think 4 motion contributes much to the rest of the drive.

 

[westfalia]

It’s sounds like a load of nonsense to me too.

I can see the benefits on 1500kg, 300 bhp hot hatch like the Golf R.
A van, hmmm...???

To be fair, I think 4 motion would be advantageous on the 204 van, but purely for standing start traction. After that, I don’t think 4 motion contributes much to the rest of the drive.

Good for some people though.
@Skewif springs to mind.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Good for some people though.
@Skewif springs to mind.

Yeah but that's the point, most people don't take their Calis off road over mountains, through bogs etc. We're talking here about normal driving, on normal roads.

 

[Legin]

Yeah but that's the point, most people don't take their Calis off road over mountains, through bogs etc. We're talking here about normal driving, on normal roads.

Loads better traction in rain on normal roads.

 

[westfalia]

We're talking here about normal driving, on normal roads.

Well, if that's what your talking then its a waste of time and money
and probably emmisions
My view only.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Well, if that's what your talking then its a waste of time and money
and probably emmisions
My view only.

I'm getting to the age when unwanted emissions are less of a problem than they used to be.

 

[Borris]

I owned a T5 180 SE 4motion with mech diff lock at the same time as a T6 Beach. The 4motion felt more like a fully loaded van to drive. It was heavier so IMO it's almost certainly that which accounts for the frequent references to it being "well planted" on the road. The fwd Beach felt lighter but not much different in terms if performance or handling.

Regarding the 4motion over fwd argument, personally I can't say that I've ever noticed much if any advantage from having 4motion. I'm not usually an aggressive driver so don't spin the tyres or drive vehicles like I stole them. To me the California is primarily a leisure vehicle and I generally drive it accordingly. Yes, of course 4motion will give you more traction to get you going and help you maintain progress on loose or slippery surfaces but beyond that I can't see how you would gain from having it on a campervan. It certainly won't help you stop any quicker. In fact it could be argued that its extra weight will make it more difficult to stop. I also fail to see how it will offer any more grip in the corners. Grip is almost entirely a function of the tyres therefore providing the vehicle is in good condition in all other respects, staying on the road through the corners is down to the type and condition of the tyres. So it's the small contact patch between tyre and road surface that matters. If youv'e lost grip on a bend you'll almost certainly end up in the same location as a fwd Cali.

Clearly, for anyone regularly going offroad or needing extra grip to keep moving in areas where the weather is often bad then 4motion in combination with a set of good appropriate tyres is a boon. However for everyone else I would suggest that it's never going to repay the initial outlay. Therefore IMO, for most Cali owners it's a waste of money. If it's muddy campsites that people are worried about then on the very rare occasion that this might happen it's only going to cost you a few quid at most to get towed out as opposed to several thousand pounds for this option and remember it also costs to have it serviced.

 

[WelshGas]

Glad to see we’re now back on topic.

 

[Borris]

Since this thread is really about grip or the lack there of, going of at a tangent doesn't seem to be out if place.