Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Just out of interest how long do we have to reject the vehicle if we choose to?

I’m not an expert, please check the law, but my understanding it within 30 days if it’s faulty with no other conditions. After 30 days and before 6 months if it’s faulty but dealer has one chance to fix it first. After 6 months (up to 12 months possibly?) the same applies but you need to be able to prove the defect was there from new. Essentially it gets progressively more difficult the longer you leave it.

 

[stationmaster]

Just out of interest how long do we have to reject the vehicle if we choose to?

Pretty sure it is 30 days

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Just out of interest how long do we have to reject the vehicle if we choose to?

30 days. Some reasonable dealers like Breeze have let customers do it after that but you’ve got absolutely no chance if you bought it from Eurovans, they never even responded to my rejection letters and the EO just say it’s the dealer’s decision.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

30 days. Some reasonable dealers like Breeze have let customers do it after that but you’ve got absolutely no chance if you bought it from Eurovans, they never even responded to my rejection letters and the EO just say it’s the dealer’s decision.

Not according to the law. Please see my post above.

 

[Corradobrit]

One other thing I noticed, what do you think to this see through patch - am I already starting off with a faulty Poptop regardless of leaking issues.It looks like the fabric is stretched / thin.

View attachment 120455

What you're seeing is light leakage through the protective edge on the outer surface. Look at this photo from the German forum. If water is channeling down that flap and ending up inside it could be the access point I see on my zipper. I need to take a closer look but it's not easy without a ladder.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Pretty sure it is 30 days

See post above, it’s more than 30 days but the conditions change.

 

[stationmaster]

I’m not an expert, please check the law, but my understanding it within 30 days if it’s faulty with no other conditions. After 30 days and before 6 months if it’s faulty but dealer has one chance to fix it first. After 6 months (up to 12 months possibly?) the same applies but you need to be able to prove the defect was there from new. Essentially it gets progressively more difficult the longer you leave it.

Good and correct explanation.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

See post above, it’s more than 30 days but the conditions change.

I think it's fair to say it's lot easier to reject within 30 days, you can after that but you're fighting an uphill battle.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I think it's fair to say it's lot easier to reject within 30 days, you can after that but you're fighting an uphill battle.

There may be resistance but if you follow the law to the letter it shouldn’t be difficult. Some carefully worded letters will help.

 

[markbrown83]

That’s where the flap covering the zip on the outside isn’t flush against the zip so light is shining through. Mine does that but then it disappears under tension once the roof is fully up.

My roof is fully up. If I run my finger up it the light bleed move with the finger. So looks like it’s all around that zip. Prob not an issue.

Now that the sun has moved it has gone.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Not according to the law. Please see my post above.

The problem is, without the other party playing ball the law needs to be enforced by someone; that’s either through court action which can take well over a year or through the Ombudsman which will likely take just as long. In the meantime you’re stuck with the problem and all its stress.

I won’t go in to my history with Eurovans again, was all covered early on, but it’s exactly what happened to me. If you bought from them and want to return after 30 days you’ll need to have the appetite to go all the way. My son was 8 months old at the time and my mental health was taking a complete battering over it (to the detriment of my family life), so I didn’t.

Edit: one thing I will say is that I’ve had it 8 months now and they’ve already had a repair shot, fitting a new 03S canvas in November which didn’t leak on initial tests. I suspect they applied Fabsil to it to avoid the rejection but I cannot prove it and I could of course be wrong. If it leaks again then it’ll be very interesting now the right to repair has been used.

 

[stationmaster]

My roof is fully up. If I run my finger up it the light bleed move with the finger. So looks like it’s all around that zip. Prob not an issue.

Now that the sun has moved it has gone.

My guess it is a non issue, probably just where the different layers of fabric end to accommodate the zip to be stitched in. That said, any join, edge, stitching line... is always going to be a weak area that needs a designed solution to stop a potential leak i suppose?

 

[markbrown83]

My guess it is a non issue, probably just where the different layers of fabric end to accommodate the zip to be stitched in. That said, any join, edge, stitching line... is always going to be a weak area that needs a designed solution to stop a potential leak i suppose?

Yeah non issue I’d say.

That’s not where the canvas was wet though. It is along the bottom and in the front corners.

 

[stationmaster]

The problem is, without the other party playing ball the law needs to be enforced by someone; that’s either through court action which can take well over a year or through the Ombudsman which will likely take just as long. In the meantime you’re stuck with the problem and all its stress.

I won’t go in to my history with Eurovans again, was all covered early on, but it’s exactly what happened to me. If you bought from them and want to return after 30 days you’ll need to have the appetite to go all the way. My son was 8 months old at the time and my mental health was taking a complete battering over it (to the detriment of my family life), so I didn’t.

Agree. Admiral that you recognised that there are sometimes more important things to life - good call.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Agree. Admiral that you recognised that there are sometimes more important things to life - good call.

I wouldn’t call it admirable, feel a little bit like they’ve walked all over me to be honest. But at that stage my eldest was only 2 and she and my wife needed me just as much as my newborn son. I was spending so much time on this thread and ongoing correspondence that I was neglecting all of them at such an important time. Something had to give.

Sad story really!

 

[stationmaster]

Yeah non issue I’d say.

That’s not where the canvas was wet though. It is along the bottom and in the front corners.

As others have observed: The water gets through the first layer, as you say usually this is where it builds up on the outside (where it meets a natural resting point, a seal or zip), then it saturates the outer layer and goes through it (it may of course also enter stitching holes and other weaker areas), then the water sits between the layers (as the next layers have some degree of resistance), when there is enough pressure (or when the roof is lowered) it all comes through at once. I also think the inner layers of fabric actually create a problem by touching the outer layer and creating a capillary action (in the same way as happens when you touch the inside of a tent in the rain).

 

[stationmaster]

I wouldn’t call it admirable, feel a little bit like they’ve walked all over me to be honest. But at that stage my eldest was only 2 and she and my wife needed me just as much as my newborn son. I was spending so much time on this thread that I was neglecting all of them at such an important time. Sad story really!

 

[stationmaster]

I think you made the right call for your circumstances at the time. It is a strength to recognise where we need to concentrate our personal resources.

 

[Sheffield10]

Just out of interest how long do we have to reject the vehicle if we choose to?

Some light reading for you;
https://www.businesscompanion.info/...bligations-under-consumer-rights-act-2015-cra (written by Trading Standards)
And some even lighter reading;

Consumer Rights Act 2015

An Act to amend the law relating to the rights of consumers and protection of their interests; to make provision about investigatory powers for enforcing the regulation of traders; to make provision about private actions in competition law and the Competition Appeal Tribunal; and for connected...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Knowing what I know now, I would avoid allowing the dealer a chance to remedy the fault, considerable time will pass (nearly 6 months in my case), and there is no certainty you will end up with a fit for purpose camper, depending on your use case, expectations etc. etc. You may also get less of cash back once they start trying to make deductions for use.

One point to be aware of that works in your favour, the 30 days to reject is paused once you notify the dealer of the fault (provided you can give them compelling and verifiable proof). If you didn't make the mistake of buying your van from Eurovans, maybe your dealer will recognise your consumer rights and work with you, but whatever you agree with them, I'd get it in writing.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I think you made the right call for your circumstances at the time. It is a strength to recognise where we need to concentrate our personal resources.

Thank you mate, I appreciate it. And that’s where I got to mentally…I could save a few thousand by fighting it and getting all my money back vs just selling it at a loss but at what cost? Doesn’t make it any easier to swallow though and I certainly wouldn’t recommend Eurovans to my worst enemy.

 

[stationmaster]

Some light reading for you;
https://www.businesscompanion.info/...bligations-under-consumer-rights-act-2015-cra (written by Trading Standards)
And some even lighter reading;

Consumer Rights Act 2015

An Act to amend the law relating to the rights of consumers and protection of their interests; to make provision about investigatory powers for enforcing the regulation of traders; to make provision about private actions in competition law and the Competition Appeal Tribunal; and for connected...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Knowing what I know now, I would avoid allowing the dealer a chance to remedy the fault, considerable time will pass (nearly 6 months in my case), and there is no certainty you will end up with a fit for purpose camper, depending on your use case, expectations etc. etc. You may also get less of cash back once they start trying to make deductions for use.

One point to be aware of that works in your favour, the 30 days to reject is paused once you notify the dealer of the fault (provided you can give them compelling and verifiable proof). If you didn't make the mistake of buying your van from Eurovans, maybe your dealer will recognise your consumer rights and work with you, but whatever you agree with them, I'd get it in writing.

..."maybe you dealer will recognise your consumer rights and work with you..."

This should be your goal, and the choice of sensible people. A pragmatic/amicable solution is always best.

In this case the responsibility for the problem with the roof sits firmly with VW, it is not the fault of the dealerships.

 

[stationmaster]

Thank you mate, I appreciate it. And that’s where I got to mentally…I could save a few thousand by fighting it and getting all my money back vs just selling it at a loss but at what cost? Doesn’t make it any easier to swallow though and I certainly wouldn’t recommend Eurovans to my worst enemy.

100% the right call

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Thank you mate, I appreciate it. And that’s where I got to mentally…I could save a few thousand by fighting it and getting all my money back vs just selling it at a loss but at what cost? Doesn’t make it any easier to swallow though and I certainly wouldn’t recommend Eurovans to my worst enemy.

I'll concur entirely here with James, when I collected mine it reminded me Arthur Dailies car dealers with a VW logo on the front. Just old fashioned hard sell of additional add on insurances.

They even called me when I responded to a mailshot about an offer they had selling brand new vehicles at £1 over trade. They said they'd follow it up and I never heard from them again!

This is a horrible cloud that hangs over anyone who has the affected bellows and an unsympathetic dealer adds insult to injury...

 

[Nik_campervan]

Hmmm. So not much rain overnight apart from a heavy shower later evening.

In the pop top at the back around the ceiling where the metal is exposed it’s wet but that’s probably condensation. There are water droplets towards the bottom but again probably condensation.

At the front running along the bottom I ran my hand along to see if wet. Corners seemed to be damp. Then along the entire front bottom. Could have caused the wick effect by running fingers along it though.

Went outside and noticed there were droplets of water on the front and rear of the pop top. I also noticed where the rubber rim runs around the bottom of the pop top the water seems to sit on that. Possibly why after a down fall you get so much water ingress. See photo.

I don’t know if what I’m seeing inside at the rear is just condensation or not.

And at the front whether I caused it by running my fingers. But as I sat there was a slight heavy patch of rain late last night but nothing else that I’m aware of.

Don’t hold much hope for a prolonged downpour. They’ll be worse than useless.

As you can see from the photo water sits on the black seal just below the canvas bottom but it also sits along that canvas bottom... which is what I think saturate it around the bottom edges of the inner canvas. As the rain become long and heavier it just gets saturated and has only one way to go... IN!

View attachment 120454

Water droplets sitting the outside are normal and to be expected on any tent. Water sitting on the black strip is also normal as my T5 does the same. After several hours of heavy rain hitting the canvas my 2011 canvas wets out at the lower edge but does not leak inside.
The only time the fabric has leaked was when front drains were blocked and prolonged heavy rain overtopped the drain channel and it leaked into van.
The water your seeing on the outside is to be expected.
Once we get a warm dry day ill be applying fabsil to my T5 canvas to see if it stops/reduces it wetting out in really bad weather.

 

[stationmaster]

Water droplets sitting the outside are normal and to be expected on any tent. Water sitting on the black strip is also normal as my T5 does the same. After several hours of heavy rain hitting the canvas my 2011 canvas wets out at the lower edge but does not leak inside.
The only time the fabric has leaked was when front drains were blocked and prolonged heavy rain overtopped the drain channel and it leaked into van.
The water your seeing on the outside is to be expected.
Once we get a warm dry day ill be applying fabsil to my T5 canvas to see if it stops/reduces it wetting out in really bad weather.

Agree. The problems arise when you add in the inner layers. See my attempt at an explanation for why, in my earlier post