Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[markbrown83]

So we think all is ok?

It’s raining tonight and overnight. Just showers so going to leave the pop top up. I need to access it sooner rather later.

Tomorrow will be judgement day.

 

[California T2023]

So if the latest 4S post 9/11 is still not a fix then what next? I still have 2.5 years left on warranty so some peace of mind that eventually they will get it sorted. The issue is water ingress through the lower window seams because the open mesh windows on outside are allowing water through them and this then sits on the Seam so is the weak point, maybe a complete new design is needed to eventually fix it. I’m thinking an Outer cover/flap that covers the windows only would do the job. Might even look into inventing my own solution.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

... maybe a complete new design is needed to eventually fix it. I’m thinking an Outer cover/flap that covers the windows only would do the job. Might even look into inventing my own solution.

Then why were all the previous bellows fine over 20 years? They are a similar if not identical pattern, only the fabric (and possibly the stitching technique) has changed.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Then why were all the previous bellows fine over 20 years? They are a similar if not identical pattern, only the fabric (and possibly the stitching technique) has changed.

Single skin fabric on T5.1. Totally different design / material, less windows hence less seams to fail.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Not according to the law. Please see my post above.

Within 30 days there is no need for an attempt to fix and it's a full refund.

Beyond 30 days, you have to allow the dealer 1 attempt to fix so that's already adding to the confusion. I know Eurovans have accepted at least one 30 day rejection but beyond that it gets really difficult because you also need to agree a fair usage charge which starts around 70p per mile.

You're correct about the law but if the dealer doesn't play ball then your only real recourse is the courts but that could take 2 years to happen and you may pay some hefty up front costs. Bear in mind that agreeing a "fair" refund value after 2 years with an uncooperative dealer will be another challenge.

In theory also, if you report the problem within 30 days but the dealer doesn't accept the problem until after 30 days you are still bound by the 30 day rule. Ditto the 6 months rule.

And presumably if a high turnover dealer faced a lot of these issues you may find some clever messing around with company ownership etc...

 

[Viktorgeorge]

Single skin fabric on T5.1. Totally different design / material, less windows hence less seams to fail.

Can't speak for a T.5, but I recall other postings tht the bellows have hardly changed. I agree the later T6.1 added the panoramic front window on Ocean models and an option on others.

But my MY23 single skin - that does not leak - looks an identical pattern to the MY23 & MY24 twin skin which do. Same seams and windows. I agree the new bellows are a different material, that was my point.

The new material seems a sponge which the the older is not. The water retention of the former being perhaps the main problem. I was responding to a poster who suggested using another fabric entirely, and I replied that reverting to the previous tried and tested material might make more sense.

The lighter interior and thermal improvement on the new bellows are nice (from photos) but not as a trade for leaks.

 

[Kev56]

This thread really is depressing. £70k+ vehicles, and the issues just go on. My OS3 leaks a tad, but following this thread I just don’t know what to do. Love the van other than this. Aaaaaaaah.

 

[Nimrod]

Just picked up our new Cali yesterday.

Have been following this thread for weeks with some concern. However, now that we have it, we couldn't be happier. The upgrades from our T6 more than outweigh having to use a roof topper on occasion, which we usually did anyway if it was cold and likely wet!

This is our 3rd Cali and I can honestly say that it is by far the best. The drive is amazing and the all new interior is far superior.

Absolutely stoked!!!

 

[Nimrod]

Laine and the team at SMG Tonbridge have done an amazing job on the build. Absolutely love it

 

[markbrown83]

Another Cali on the campsite. Tempted to knock on and ask if their pop top is ok

 

[Viktorgeorge]

… following this thread I just don’t know what to do. Love the van other than this. Aaaaaaaah.

I know what I would try to do, even if a long shot.

Given that production of the T6.1 California is about to end, I would at least try, through all forums, to encourage those who don’t want to keep the new bellows (I am sure there are some who do) politely to ask through dealers for the previous bellows fabric/spec to be revived.

It has to have ‘closure’ merit for VW, to offer either the old bellows or for owners to live with what they got.

The old bellows were after all a known product to VW - whether or not they come from a different manufacturer to the new ones.

Dealers must be getting pretty tired of this by now, and they will have considerable clout.

What is my interest? I want to know that I can change my bellows in the future if I need to and I most certainly would not want replacement with these current new bellows in their current leaking state.

 

[stationmaster]

Another Cali on the campsite. Tempted to knock on and ask if their pop top is ok

No harm in being friendly

 

[markbrown83]

No harm in being friendly

They have all their blinds closed. Standard leave me a long signal.

Started raining here now, although showers.

 

[Justinitus1972]

Another Cali on the campsite. Tempted to knock on and ask if their pop top is ok

There’s 2 Calis on the site we’re on (a 66 and 72 plate) plus a Vito conversion and 3 other VW Transporter campervans. I’m the only one with my pop-top down. And the most expensive vehicle of all to boot.

 

[markbrown83]

There’s 2 Calis on the site we’re on (a 66 and 72 plate) plus a Vito conversion and 3 other VW Transporter campervans. I’m the only one with my pop-top down. And the most expensive vehicle of all to boot.

Well, it’s just started raining heavy now. I still have pop top up…. Needs to be tested.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Well, it’s just started raining heavy now. I still have pop top up…. Needs to be tested.

Good effort. Yes got to be done at some point.

 

[stationmaster]

There’s 2 Calis on the site we’re on (a 66 and 72 plate) plus a Vito conversion and 3 other VW Transporter campervans. I’m the only one with my pop-top down. And the most expensive vehicle of all to boot.

EV owners have range anxiety...California owners, not to be outdone, roof anxiety

 

[ParachuteMan]

%21

So if the latest 4S post 9/11 is still not a fix then what next? I still have 2.5 years left on warranty so some peace of mind that eventually they will get it sorted. The issue is water ingress through the lower window seams because the open mesh windows on outside are allowing water through them and this then sits on the Seam so is the weak point, maybe a complete new design is needed to eventually fix it. I’m thinking an Outer cover/flap that covers the windows only would do the job. Might even look into inventing my own solution.

Your comment about covering the windows has inspired me ! I’ve been through the garage and loft for the bits and pieces I need, taken sewing advice from Mrs PM, done my design. Manufacture tomorrow …

 

[markbrown83]

First drips have appeared.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

First drips have appeared.

View attachment 120500

Well this is rather terrible news. How long did it take and how bad is the weather?

 

[markbrown83]

Well this is rather terrible news. How long did it take and how bad is the weather?

I’d say 2 hours.

 

[CalifornIAN]

First drips have appeared.

View attachment 120500

Oh no, not promising! Really sorry for all of you affected by this, it must take the shine off what should be a great vehicle and lifestyle. We had 90% decided to trade in our 2015 Cali SE for a new Ocean, got a decent deal and with the 5yr 0% and warranty etc. it seemed perfect but this really has made us stop and think. We’re sat in the Lake District with fairly heavy rain and have no thought or worry about the canvas leaking because it just does what it should, I imagine I would not be so relaxed in a new one. I hope VW sort out a proper fix for this pretty soon. Good luck to all of you affected.

 

[Capt_Stanley]

Mark I’m really sorry to hear that, it’s exactly like my 04S 121223 bellows that I tested on Monday (my photo is poor)

 

[Corradobrit]

VW half arsing it again.

 

[GreenMissile]

First drips have appeared.

View attachment 120500

So sorry to see this Mark Totally different to our experience this week, as it was the horizontal seam that leaked profusely and the vertical seam showed no sign of ingress at 3.5 hours of steady/heavy rain.
04S is not looking as the answer, alarming. More real world testing like this with fellow members will provide us with a definitive answer, but I think I know the outcome