Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[flying banana]

I’m in the same boat as you…ordered last week but I already have a 2022 Cali with perfectly functional and fit for purpose bellows - am I mad or am I able to see the bigger picture?

Your mad

 

[Barry Chuckle]

If it leaks, can’t you go down the rejection process?

As @Jimmylondon07 mentioned in an earlier post, if you want to do this you have to be prepared for a very long legal battle likely over a year as the dealer will fight me every step of the way. I'd rather cut my loses and move onto something different.

 

[Elmo3]

As @Jimmylondon07 mentioned in an earlier post, if you want to do this you have to be prepared for a very long legal battle likely over a year as the dealer will fight me every step of the way. I'd rather cut my loses and move onto something different.

That’s absurd. If it leaks, when previous models haven’t, it’s defective and not fit for purpose.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

To be fair I was told on ordering last week that the issue had been fixed because that is what was known at the time but from everyone’s experiences this weekend with the evidence provided that’s now clearly not the case so I just need to consider my next step…although I did go and purchase a Cali topper out of panic yesterday before there’s some panic buying for them … I do have a thermal Purcer wrap around which would also act as a shield for chillier moments. May just have to wait for that ultimate OS5 fix as I’m sure I will end up with an OS4. My experience so far with my current Cali though is that it’s a fab van!

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

That’s absurd. If it leaks, when previous models haven’t, it’s defective and not fit for purpose.

Yes that's the consumer law but to enforce it you need to lawyer up and head to court which I think takes 1 to 2 years.

You'll probably win but it's not guaranteed...

 

[Jimmylondon07]

That’s absurd. If it leaks, when previous models haven’t, it’s defective and not fit for purpose.

That’s the Eurovans touch for you. Didn’t even bother responding to my rejection letters! Haven’t to this day.

 

[markbrown83]

To be fair I was told on ordering last week that the issue had been fixed because that is what was known at the time but from everyone’s experiences this weekend with the evidence provided that’s now clearly not the case so I just need to consider my next step…although I did go and purchase a Cali topper out of panic yesterday before there’s some panic buying for them … I do have a thermal Purcer wrap around which would also act as a shield for chillier moments. May just have to wait for that ultimate OS5 fix as I’m sure I will end up with an OS4. My experience so far with my current Cali though is that it’s a fab van!

Then why not just keep your current one?

 

[Elmo3]

That’s the Eurovans touch for you. Didn’t even bother responding to my rejection letters! Haven’t to this day.

Think I’d be camped outside their showroom. With a topper on…

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I’m in the same boat as you…ordered last week but I already have a 2022 Cali with perfectly functional and fit for purpose bellows - am I mad or am I able to see the bigger picture?

You already know the answer to your own question.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Then why not just keep your current one?

Due to VW offers and improving my spec from my original which has turned out to be a no cost to me improvement I actually thought I’d be mad not to upgrade to a 2024 build for the same money to me after the 5 year offer. Perhaps it’s all been too good to be true? TBH I haven’t even got a build date yet so all options are still on the table.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Due to VW offers and improving my spec from my original which has turned out to be a no cost to me improvement I actually thought I’d be mad not to upgrade to a 2024 build for the same money to me after the 5 year offer. Perhaps it’s all been too good to be true? TBH I haven’t even got a build date yet so all options are still on the table.

If you gave them your deposit over the phone, you've a lot of protection under the distance selling rules so you can pretty much expect your deposit to be refunded if you wish.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

If you gave them your deposit over the phone, you've a lot of protection under the distance selling rules so you can pretty much expect your deposit to be refunded if you wish.

Didn’t have to give a deposit as the current Vw offer with 0% finance VW pay your initial £1k deposit for you so no loss to me ..in fact they are giving me back over £30k my bank account with ox on collection and handover and at the moment that’s getting on for at least 3 months into the future so lots of time to think it through with some considered rationale.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Didn’t have to give a deposit as the current Vw offer with 0% finance VW pay your initial £1k deposit for you so no loss to me ..in fact they are giving me back over £30k my bank account with ox on collection and handover and at the moment that’s getting on for at least 3 months into the future so lots of time to think it through with some considered rationale.

I bet there would be a queue of people with 23/24 models who'd swap for your 2022 model with stress free bellows !!!!!

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Didn’t have to give a deposit as the current Vw offer with 0% finance VW pay your initial £1k deposit for you so no loss to me ..in fact they are giving me back over £30k my bank account with ox on collection and handover and at the moment that’s getting on for at least 3 months into the future so lots of time to think it through with some considered rationale.

Check the small print terms and conditions of your order. I think you'll find if you break the contract and cancel, there may be circumstances under which the dealer can recover some of their costs in selling the vehicle which you ordered.

How often they do that, I don't know, but it is a small risk...

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Check the small print terms and conditions of your order. I think you'll find if you break the contract and cancel, there may be circumstances under which the dealer can recover some of their costs in selling the vehicle which you ordered.

How often they do that, I don't know, but it is a small risk...

From my experience it’s not worth their hassle .. they just sell it as a brand new vehicle without a lead time for someone … with my current Cali I had it in writing ( as I was a bit nervous of spending so much money in one go) and the dealership didn’t mind if I didn’t want it on the day of collection and I would receive my deposit back and they would just sell it on at full price probably making a bigger margin than selling it to me with discount. All good.

 

[GillianC]

Due to VW offers and improving my spec from my original which has turned out to be a no cost to me improvement I actually thought I’d be mad not to upgrade to a 2024 build for the same money to me after the 5 year offer. Perhaps it’s all been too good to be true? TBH I haven’t even got a build date yet so all options are still on the table.

Why are VW being so generous????
If you have a van with bellows that don’t leak and you like then in MHO you would be mad to change it for something that you know is likely to have a problem.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I bet there would be a queue of people with 23/24 models who'd swap for your 2022 model with stress free bellows !!!!!

Maybe, but I certainly wouldn’t be one of them. Our MY24 Cali is superb!

 

[Hawthorn37]

@markbrown83 - I’ve looked at your photo of drips next to the corner vertical seam. We have a single skin bellows, and have had water droplets running down in the same area. However we determined that the source was from the ventilation mesh, with rain being blown under the lip of the roof. Did you discount that source ?

 

[P600BOO]

I bet there would be a queue of people with 23/24 models who'd swap for your 2022 model with stress free bellows !!!!!

My April 2023 model does not leak and I have the grey outside and cream inside.

 

[markbrown83]

@markbrown83 - I’ve looked at your photo of drips next to the corner vertical seam. We have a single skin bellows, and have had water droplets running down in the same area. However we determined that the source was from the ventilation mesh, with rain being blown under the lip of the roof. Did you discount that source ?

Unfortunately not, it wasn’t coming from there.

It wasn’t running down from the mesh. It was coming out from the seam.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Unfortunately not, it wasn’t coming from there.

It wasn’t running down from the mesh. It was coming out from the seam.

With the two skin bellows, water can enter anywhere there is an edge and capillary attraction between the two layers can then "move" that water to a location where there's a break on the inner layer.

So yours may well be a seam issue but equally it could be wicking across from a panoramic mesh window, for example.

That's why certainly on the 03S they turned a dark grey as water filled the gap between the two layers and then bled out in lots of places. But the key indicator of that problem was the bellows becoming dark grey and saturated, holding lots of water so the process continued after closing the pop top.

 

[markbrown83]

It could be. But the amount of water that was coming in and pooling is unacceptable.

 

[markbrown83]

Another observation. Where we got the second seam leaking. Many stitch holes.

Could the bellows be pulled too tight?

 

[markbrown83]

We keep going back and forth wondering if we are being a bit premature rejecting the vehicle. Are we being to fussy? But we keep coming back to our use case which is in Ireland and Scotland during the winter. Do we (you) have confidence they'll hold up? I think the resounding conclusion is no?

Please tell me I'm not over reacting and in the same instance tell me if you think I am?

 

[Corradobrit]

Another observation. Where we got the second seam leaking. Many stitch holes.

Could the bellows be pulled too tight?

View attachment 120623

This was one of the contentions early on in this saga. The physical properties of the new bellows being a significant departure from the previous design. The new fabric has a stretchy neoprene like quality. And while some stretch in the main fabric is fine, stretch at the seams could be problematic as the stitch holes can enlarge. A non stretchy strengthening layer at the seam is needed. Perhaps this is what the 3rd layer in the new MV Cali Concept bellows achieves.