Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[stationmaster]

Should i weather my bellows/tent?

Article from Vango site about tent fabrics and weathering?:

Should I weather my tent?

There are two different types of materials that are commonly used with today's tents, they are; polyester and polycotton. Polyester is a fabric woven/ knitted from a polyester thread and is normally backed by some form of PU (...

vangosupport.vango.co.uk

 

[stationmaster]

'There are two different types of materials that are commonly used with today's tents, they are; polyester and polycotton.



Polyester is a fabric woven/ knitted from a polyester thread and is normally backed by some form of PU (polyurethane) coating and treated with a DWR (Durable Water Repellent) coating, finally, the seams are then taped with waterproof tape. This material is incredibly waterproof and can hold many metres of water pressure on the surface of the fabric before you experience any type of water ingress. This fabric will stay waterproof for a long period of time, however, it is advisable that you reproof your tent every so often to maintain the materials water repellency.(Link Below)



Polycotton, on the other hand, is a blend of woven cotton and polyester thread - the details of this blend is usually in the product description of the tent - this fabric is also treated with a DWR coating.However, unlike polyester, it cannot receive an adhesive coating to the fabric without this the seams cannot be taped and the needle holes from where the seams where sewn may be visible and can let water in if the tent is not weathered beforehand.



Weathering basically means wetting the fabric, and this process lets the cotton in the fabric soak up any moisture and expand. Thus closing the needle holes and any other small holes in the fabric. Once this has been done, you should dry out the tent and then there should be no need to do this again.'

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

'There are two different types of materials that are commonly used with today's tents, they are; polyester and polycotton.



Polyester is a fabric woven/ knitted from a polyester thread and is normally backed by some form of PU (polyurethane) coating and treated with a DWR (Durable Water Repellent) coating, finally, the seams are then taped with waterproof tape. This material is incredibly waterproof and can hold many metres of water pressure on the surface of the fabric before you experience any type of water ingress. This fabric will stay waterproof for a long period of time, however, it is advisable that you reproof your tent every so often to maintain the materials water repellency.(Link Below)



Polycotton, on the other hand, is a blend of woven cotton and polyester thread - the details of this blend is usually in the product description of the tent - this fabric is also treated with a DWR coating.However, unlike polyester, it cannot receive an adhesive coating to the fabric without this the seams cannot be taped and the needle holes from where the seams where sewn may be visible and can let water in if the tent is not weathered beforehand.



Weathering basically means wetting the fabric, and this process lets the cotton in the fabric soak up any moisture and expand. Thus closing the needle holes and any other small holes in the fabric. Once this has been done, you should dry out the tent and then there should be no need to do this again.'

And which one is ours!!!!

 

[stationmaster]

And which one is ours!!!!

P600BOO has suggested it is polyester cotton.

 

[stationmaster]

P600BOO has suggested it is polyester cotton.

Likely he is correct. As the seams are not taped (we can see the pin holes to indicate no tape).

No tape means it is likely to be polyester cotton,

 

[stationmaster]

Likely he is correct. As the seams are not taped (we can see the pin holes to indicate no tape).

No tape means it is likely to be polyester cotton,

Also, if it is polyester cotton, this explains the O4S revision of the non glued black flexible tape we have observed.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Also, if it is polyester cotton, this explains the O4S revision of the non glued black flexible tape we have observed.

So that would also suggest repeated wet dry cycles could improve the situation??

 

[stationmaster]

Vango also have advice (there is a link at the bottom of the article) on how to reproof your tent...and say this may need to be done after the weathering has been completed

They suggest the use of Fabsil or similar!!!

 

[stationmaster]

So that would also suggest repeated wet dry cycles could improve the situation??

You got it in one

 

[P600BOO]

P600BOO has suggested it is polyester cotton.

I think the sewing thread is Poly/ Cotton. Not sure what the actual bellows are made from but it does not feel and look like Polyester or Nylon.

 

[stationmaster]

Vango article on reproofing your tent:

How do I reproof my tent ?

After several uses in rain or sunshine your tents water repellent coating may wear off, this will cause your tent material to "wet out" (absorb water) instead of it beading up and rolling off. If you experience any "wetting ou...

amggroup.freshdesk.com

 

[stationmaster]

Vango article on reproofing your tent:

How do I reproof my tent ?

After several uses in rain or sunshine your tents water repellent coating may wear off, this will cause your tent material to "wet out" (absorb water) instead of it beading up and rolling off. If you experience any "wetting ou...

amggroup.freshdesk.com

In out case - all the photos i have seen posted on here, and also from observing my van, there is no 'wetting out' and the bellows water repellent coating is working just as expected. No problem there to my knowledge...

...but i am no expert in this field or any other

 

[stationmaster]

I think the sewing thread is Poly/ Cotton. Not sure what the actual bellows are made from but it does not feel and look like Polyester or Nylon.

...from what i understand, the problem for us is mainly the thread/thread holes - would you agree?

 

[mikefixex]

I am quite new to this and don't have a Cali yet but picking up in a few months hopefully.

What are VW actually working on to fix this and has there been an attempt to log this with the Motor Ombudsman, surely with hundreds of problem vas in existence it might make them hurry with the fix.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

I think the sewing thread is Poly/ Cotton. Not sure what the actual bellows are made from but it does not feel and look like Polyester or Nylon.

I would agree with you that it doesn’t appear to be Polyester. We have a number of Outwell and Vango tents, which all have taped seams, and having checked their specs. they are all Polyester - feel very different to our bellows material.

 

[stationmaster]

I would agree with you that it doesn’t appear to be Polyester. We have a number of Outwell and Vango tents, which all have taped seams, and having checked their specs. they are all Polyester - feel very different to our bellows material.

Polyester cotton ?

 

[lohr500]

I have no idea what thread has been used and to a large extent I'm not really interested!!

All I do know is that after three or four wetting and drying cycles, I was still seeing the same wicking/capillary effect through the vertical, horizontal and curved seams/stitching. And at pretty much at the same rate.

If the thread is polyester cotton and it is supposed to expand and seal after a few wetting cycles, then in my case it didn't work

Also, if the stitching was designed to work like that, wouldn't the stock answer by now from VW be to "give it time to bed in"? At no point in my discussion with Adrian at the VW Exec Office has this been put forward as a possible remedy.

At the risk of tempting fate, all I do know is that since applying the Aqua Tex, there have been zero leaks. Not a drop.

And this is with the bellows being raised several times in persistent rain with winds blowing the rain onto the bellows. To supplement the rainfall today I had the hose pipe drizzling a rain effect on the front face for a good five minutes and still no leaks. When testing previously with the hose pipe, the rate of wicking/capillary action increased significantly a few minutes after the bellows were saturated.

Throughout all the testing I have never seen any leakage through the bellows material itself. So touch wood, I think the manufacturer has at least got the material waterproofing sorted.

I will be leaving the roof up for another few days as more rain is forecast and I am very interested to see if the Aqua Tex treatment continues to be effective.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Polyester cotton ?

The tents all just say Polyester in their specs. The VW bellows are a much thicker gauge of material and feel quite different, but as to whether that’s polly cotton or some other variant I don’t know. Have tried googling at some length but no mention anywhere that I can find.

Noted that the VW sales brochure refers to them as “canvas bellows” - Google suggests that canvas is usually made of cotton. So maybe that does mean they are Polly Cotton. Guess the bigger question though is what is the thread made of, which for the reasons @P600BOO mentions that does seemingly need to be an expanding type if used in conjunction with polly cotton.

 

[ChrisTravel]

The tents all just say Polyester in their specs. The VW bellows are a much thicker gauge of material and feel quite different, but as to whether that’s polly cotton or some other variant I don’t know. Have tried googling at some length but no mention anywhere that I can find.

Thank you for all your contributions and experience hopefully we will get there one way or another soon

 

[stationmaster]

The tents all just say Polyester in their specs. The VW bellows are a much thicker gauge of material and feel quite different, but as to whether that’s polly cotton or some other variant I don’t know. Have tried googling at some length but no mention anywhere that I can find.

Noted that the VW sales brochure refers to them as “canvas bellows” - Google suggests that canvas is usually made of cotton. So maybe that does mean they are Polly Cotton. Guess the bigger question though is what is the thread made of, which for the reasons @P600BOO mentions that does seemingly need to be an expanding type if used in conjunction with polly cotton.

Sounds logical to me...thanks for the input.

 

[stationmaster]

Three take away points i got from the Vango articles:

1) Polyester Cotton material does not have bonded seam tape and this leads to visible pin holes that can let water pass through the tent/bellows. I conclude that our bellows are Polyester Cotton as there are pin holes and no bonded seam tape.

2) Wet/dry cycles will improve the bellows as this will diminish the pin holes inherent in this type of material. For some reason this wet/dry cycling appears to be failing to close the pin holes - maybe the manufacturer has used the incorrect thread? I have been testing the wet/dry cycling - and at three cycles, it has NOT worked. I am going to do further cycles in the next week.

3) The application of Fabsil/similar is sometimes required periodically to reproof. I conclude that it might be fine to use a silicone treatment on the bellows - Vango seem to think it is ok

 

[stationmaster]

I have no idea what thread has been used and to a large extent I'm not really interested!!

All I do know is that after three or four wetting and drying cycles, I was still seeing the same wicking/capillary effect through the vertical, horizontal and curved seams/stitching. And at pretty much at the same rate.

If the thread is polyester cotton and it is supposed to expand and seal after a few wetting cycles, then in my case it didn't work

Also, if the stitching was designed to work like that, wouldn't the stock answer by now from VW be to "give it time to bed in"? At no point in my discussion with Adrian at the VW Exec Office has this been put forward as a possible remedy.

At the risk of tempting fate, all I do know is that since applying the Aqua Tex, there have been zero leaks. Not a drop.

And this is with the bellows being raised several times in persistent rain with winds blowing the rain onto the bellows. To supplement the rainfall today I had the hose pipe drizzling a rain effect on the front face for a good five minutes and still no leaks. When testing previously with the hose pipe, the rate of wicking/capillary action increased significantly a few minutes after the bellows were saturated.

Throughout all the testing I have never seen any leakage through the bellows material itself. So touch wood, I think the manufacturer has at least got the material waterproofing sorted.

I will be leaving the roof up for another few days as more rain is forecast and I am very interested to see if the Aqua Tex treatment continues to be effective.

Great to hear no leaks

 

[lohr500]

VW need to stop sitting on the fence on this one.

The person within VW who is discussing the bellows issues with the manufacturer needs to ask the manufacturer if it is OK to use Aqua Tex or Fabsil. They must surely be providing feedback on the rising numbers of failures on the latest 04S bellows and should also be aware that some of us have solved the problem (temporarily or permanently, but to early to say at this stage) using a waterproofing agent.

Again, how difficult can it be?

 

[Kev56]

VW need to stop sitting on the fence on this one.

The person within VW who is discussing the bellows issues with the manufacturer needs to ask the manufacturer if it is OK to use Aqua Tex or Fabsil. They must surely be providing feedback on the rising numbers of failures on the latest 04S bellows and should also be aware that some of us have solved the problem (temporarily or permanently, but to early to say at this stage) using a waterproofing agent.

Again, how difficult can it be?

All together now ' How difficult can it be?'

 

[Kev56]

New tax year, time to invest is Fabsil stock.