Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[stationmaster]

I understood 04s revision was a black flexible strip sewn into some seams? Not the usual bonded seam tape, as is common on jackets and tents, but a sewn in strip, I assumed to seal pin holes?

I'm often wrong though

 

[stationmaster]

Take a look at the bottom corners of the windows...maybe the black tape is there? On mine it looks like it maybe?

Hope that's helpful.

 

[RockinNRollin]

It's definitely held into the seam and I therefore assume intended to swell around stitch holes/seams, rather than be a "encapsulating" barrier like taped seams on a waterproof jacket are. This again points towards the properties of the bellows being more akin to a canvas type fabric.

 

[stationmaster]

Agree. On most all photos I have seen, the issue is the stitching holes, so what the designers have added makes sense?

 

[P600BOO]

I understood 04s revision was a black flexible strip sewn into some seams? Not the usual bonded seam tape, as is common on jackets and tents, but a sewn in strip, I assumed to seal pin holes?

I'm often wrong though

The 2 side seams are a pocket with 2 pieces of stiff plastic product in them. When the pop top is lowered these bend inwards in their pocket to help make the fabric fold inside and not go outside.
At the bottom of the large front zip is a reinforced area using black fabric

 

[stationmaster]

The 2 side seams are a pocket with 2 pieces of stiff plastic product in them. When the pop top is lowered these bend inwards in their pocket to help make the fabric fold inside and not go outside.
At the bottom of the large front zip is a reinforced area using black fabric

View attachment 121757

View attachment 121758

View attachment 121759

Thanks.

The tape i think has been added is here:

The workmanship is so neat it hardly shows!

 

[stationmaster]

Thanks.

The tape i think has been added is here:

The workmanship is so neat it hardly shows!View attachment 121762

As i recall, Adrian mentioned it to me, and others on the forum appear to be aware of the revision too.

Do you think it is significant to your adoption of your Aqua Tex?

 

[stationmaster]

That is not tape, it's the mosquito netting.
I Have had a good look at my fabric today and the front zip has a film laminated to the back of it.

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Yeah, my bad. I was lazy and took pictures of what was visible when the roof was down, i think your right, it may be the insect netting...

or a special fabric in a grid design akin to netting that stops capillary action??? What do i know

 

[mikefixex]

I spoke to Adrian today before I am due to pick up my van next week. To be honest I think the approach is the correct one although it’s slow . He was explaining there was still an ongoing investigation with 04S bellows to determine if the leaks were due to quality issues with some or a design issue with all. He explained this would take some time to conclude given the potential consequences of not getting it right.

There is also full commitment this issue will be resolved and that he was currently waiting on confirmation that waterproofing could be used as an interim solution for affected vans.

I’ve made the descision to go ahead with my collection. If I was going to reject the van I’m sure VW would reimburse the cost of a cover as an alternative option until they get the long term fix sorted rather than the hassle of a rejected van.

 

[NGC]

I don’t agree. If everybody sits quietly and buys pop top covers then as far as VW are concerned there isn’t a widespread issue. We should all be making warranty claims because the bellows are faulty. Where’s the logic in having a faulty vehicle that you don’t seek a repair or rectification on? Inaction could be seen as acceptance.

I agree with the sentiment of a warranty claim but are they just going to replace like with like and it will leak again! I think the only fix is a good sealant like you would on a tent if it was leaking

 

[Corradobrit]

I agree with the sentiment of a warranty claim but are they just going to replace like with like and it will leak again! I think the only fix is a good sealant like you would on a tent if it was leaking

Personally I think the 2 layer bellows is a failed design. VW should bite the bullet and come up with a T6.1 version of the triple layer bellows going into the MV Cali Concept. Although I'm curious to know what performance advantage the extra layer offers, its seams looked to be a step up from those on the T6.1, which is where our problems start and end.

 

[Kayleigh]

“I spoke to Adrian today …

There is also full commitment this issue will be resolved …”

I feel a song coming on…

“Stop me, oh, stop me
Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before
Nothing's changed…..”

 

[mikefixex]

I feel a song coming on…

“Stop me, oh, stop me
Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before
Nothing's changed…..”

I feel a song coming on…

“Stop me, oh, stop me
Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before
Nothing's changed…..”

What has your experience been? Should I not trust Adrian?

 

[Corradobrit]

What has your experience been? Should I not trust Adrian?

VW have been singing that tune for well over a year. We still have leaking *revised* bellows. The skepticism is valid.

 

[ParachuteMan]

What has your experience been? Should I not trust Adrian?

I think Adrian is honourable and has our best interests at heart. But I thInk his executive ability to change things in VW is low. And he retires in the Summer. Read what you want in this …

 

[lohr500]

There is also full commitment this issue will be resolved and that he was currently waiting on confirmation that waterproofing could be used as an interim solution for affected vans.

That sounds promising. Hopefully they are taking on board my feedback and the same request from other affected owners seriously.

We do need this interim fix to be approved so we can use our vans over the next few months until VW reach a conclusion.

 

[mikefixex]

VW have been singing that tune for well over a year. We still have leaking *revised* bellows. The skepticism is valid.

I think it takes time to investigate and figure out a solution?

 

[myvanrodney]

That sounds promising. Hopefully they are taking on board my feedback and the same request from other affected owners seriously.

We do need this interim fix to be approved so we can use our vans over the next few months until VW reach a conclusion.

Just be careful, they may take the opportunity to issue this as the permanent fix?

 

[lohr500]

Just be careful, they may take the opportunity to issue this as the permanent fix?

I guess there may be a danger of that happening.

What we don't know at this stage is how effective the Aqua Tex/Fabsil waterproofing is in the long term.

Short term it seems to work very well.

To be honest, if it gave say a year of leak free regular usage and just needed a quick annual top up each Spring, then that wouldn't be a problem for me. I know we should expect better, but reproofing wet weather gear is not unheard of. I use Nikwax on my Paramo coats every now and then. The oldest one is at least 15 years old now and still doesn't leak.

 

[flying banana]

3 days of heavy non stop lake district wind and rain. 1 side of van bellows has had enough. I think the bungee is partly to blame as was wicking through the fabric. I'm.removing that ASAP for tonight at wasdale. BUT, tooK 3 days OF punishment before giving in a bit.

 

[Kayleigh]

3 days of heavy non stop lake district wind and rain. 1 side of van bellows has had enough. I think the bungee is partly to blame as was wicking through the fabric. I'm.removing that ASAP for tonight at wasdale. BUT, tooK 3 days OF punishment before giving in a bit.

View attachment 121793

Ah, that’ll be the good old 02S bellows

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Where would we stand if we apply a chemical sealing agent and then can’t prove our bellows leaked?

 

[RockinNRollin]

Ah, that’ll be the good old 02S bellows

That's not an 02S, wrong colour.

@flying banana is yours an 03S or an 04S? Looks a fair bit of water there - had it accumulated gradually or fairly suddenly?

 

[tjeffery1]

Where would we stand if we apply a chemical sealing agent and then can’t prove our bellows leaked?

I received an email back from Breeze today to say my issue has been logged with VW and EO.
And I replied just then asking the same question you did. Will keep you posted but I suspect I won’t get a straight answer

 

[Kayleigh]

That's not an 02S, wrong colour.

@flying banana is yours an 03S or an 04S? Looks a fair bit of water there - had it accumulated gradually or fairly suddenly?

No 03S on a “T6 Ocean 204ps manual“.