Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[lohr500]

@OxonCalifornia

Great result in getting written confirmation that it was OK to use Aquatex

I couldn't get a simple YES/NO answer from Adrian at the Exec Office, only a verbal response saying that so long as the proofer didn't damage the zips or material, it shouldn't be a problem.

Keep that written approval safe, just in case!!

Having said that Aquatex has worked perfectly on my 04S bellows so and i have no plans to request a bellows change unless they start leaking badly and further applications of Aquatex fail to stop it leaking.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

@OxonCalifornia

Great result in getting written confirmation that it was OK to use Aquatex

I couldn't get a simple YES/NO answer from Adrian at the Exec Office, only a verbal response saying that so long as the proofer didn't damage the zips or material, it shouldn't be a problem.

Keep that written approval safe, just in case!!

Having said that Aquatex has worked perfectly on my 04S bellows so and i have no plans to request a bellows change unless they start leaking badly and further applications of Aquatex fail to stop it leaking.

I have logged with VWEO but am only at the stage of a generic response asking for details that I gave them initially but it did come from Rhiannon.
After all the issues people have had in the past it was quite liberating to use a £10 can of a quality product to sort the problem out in an instant which kept the integrity of the warranty and not having to take van to VW to prove what I already knew. It was just so easy to use too which you will be aware of with no marking whatsoever. I do believe that the whole stance from VW has increased an acceptance of the issue and it’s just now all a bit more relaxed? Perhaps now it stops with O5S and a waterproofer is accepted to fix any dribbles in the future?. I have to say the whole thing looks better quality than my O2S on my previous van with a more premium feel. But it was good to get the acceptance formally that if another version comes along this can be swapped if I want to, but like you have said in a previous post @lohr500 , if you can be in a position to retain the factory fit that has to be a bonus without the stress of numerous replacements for van or customer! It will be interesting to see if others have a positive experience with VW as we move forward, or is it just my dealer excellence? I’m off to a music festival with the van in Cornwall this week so at least I can be a happy relaxed contented customer as we pop the roof under a grey sky - not like those customers on this thread with new vans who just suffered and felt pain & anguish at the start of all this fiasco. At least it will give confidence with anyone still purchasing new vans out there, who are still waiting for delivery or looking at used 22-24.. which will all be under warranty with a fix in place.

 

[Lakes5]

We had a proper full on Lake District test last night. 6 hours of very heavy and persistent rain. O5s A untreated yet.
After about 2 hours we started to get drips forming. It was on both fronts seams in similar place to @OxonCalifornia result. It wasn't bad and didn't get worse. But it did leak. I was checking the seams with a torch every 30mins in the evening but I would have missed it if I didn't know where to look.
There was maybe about 6 drops each side over the whole evening so at least I am not concerned going out for the day leaving the roof up. I wasn't worried about it overnight and kitchen paper left out was barely even damp this morning.
I will log it with VW as well so they have a record and see what they say.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

We had a proper full on Lake District test last night. 6 hours of very heavy and persistent rain. O5s A untreated yet.
After about 2 hours we started to get drips forming. It was on both fronts seams in similar place to @OxonCalifornia result. It wasn't bad and didn't get worse. But it did leak. I was checking the seams with a torch every 30mins in the evening but I would have missed it if I didn't know where to look.
There was maybe about 6 drops each side over the whole evening so at least I am not concerned going out for the day leaving the roof up. I wasn't worried about it overnight and kitchen paper left out was barely even damp this morning.
I will log it with VW as well so they have a record and see what they say.

View attachment 126683

Spot on…exactly the same as my test experience in the rain on my drive last week… even the drip has a family resemblance !, .same corner seams which are not taped…perhaps it’s more difficult on corners? Although I have proofed the whole roof inside and out at least you can be confident that a minimum application of Aquatex inside and out on those seams taking about 5 mins will sort your problem. I feel like one of the disiples! Enjoy rest of your home camping with confidence, @Lakes5 knowing we are all with you in the bellowsgate self help group!

 

[sidepod]

Is there any obvious/easy way to ID which bellows are fitted? I was told 05had been fitted but I’m not convinced. No labels anywhere.

 

[Maxi_Cali]

I posted on here ages ago about my leaky 04S bellows, they were replaced with 04S bellows again which to begin with I wasn’t all too pleased with but we’ve just been in the van for a week in Dartmoor and have had two separate days of heavy rain, in excess of 10 hours each day and everything stayed dry as a bone, no leaks at all, I’m fairly content that I’m now lucky and have a non leaky set….

 

[P600BOO]

After last weeks little drips development on my new O5S Bellows , result this morning and great customer service from Breeze + Poole. I’m off on hols for a week in the van and got written authorisation to use Aquatex today without affecting VW warranty and following on from my photo / video evidence the invite to exchange for O6S if the bellows are revised again …result …meanwhile dry top bunk and enjoy the van without the Dealer too & fro hassle with hosepipe test etc…with the promise of an upgrade if one becomes available …what’s not to like about that?
Anyway..3 cans of Aquatex inside and out & 30 mins later…not a mark or residue on fabric…as if invisible…Job done .. Simples!
Photos…post application.

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View attachment 126677

Good to hear that VW / Breeze have given you permission to use Aquatex.
It shows that they read these forums and have at last taken note that Aquatex stops the water ingress. I think I was the 1st to use it and todate my poptop has not leaked 1 drop of water.
AQUATEX drys clear, my zip still work, fabric has not rotted.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Now a feature of my garage store cupboard

 

[lohr500]

It does seem strange that they have made no attempt to use a sealing strip on the corner seams.
Many of the reported 04S leaks, including mine, were associated with those long vertical joints.

Perhaps it is tricky to use a sealing strip on such a narrow joint.

 

[SusiBus]

I'm registering with dealer today and also have a video to see if they will accept as evidence so dont have to return for their hosepipe test and then can aquatex afterwards whilst waiting for O6S if ever i wanted / needed to go down that route - or if ever their will be an O6S?.VW may just as well give those horizontal corner seams a waterproofing spray and job done.
Does anyone have the VWEO email for Rhiannon as Id like to log this with her today too.?
The more that is flagged the greater the need for VW to progress.

Has anyone given you Rhiannon email address, because l need it, as I've been informed by SMG that I should log the fact that our roof leaked with VW?

 

[myvanrodney]

Has anyone given you Rhiannon email address, because l need it, as I've been informed by SMG that I should log the fact that our roof leaked with VW?

executive.office@vwcv.co.uk

 

[SGTVWOCEANMY23]

We’re your old bellows O5S too or previous generations?

No previous ones were 03S

 

[Fish111111111.]

I have logged with VWEO but am only at the stage of a generic response asking for details that I gave them initially but it did come from Rhiannon.
After all the issues people have had in the past it was quite liberating to use a £10 can of a quality product to sort the problem out in an instant which kept the integrity of the warranty and not having to take van to VW to prove what I already knew. It was just so easy to use too which you will be aware of with no marking whatsoever. I do believe that the whole stance from VW has increased an acceptance of the issue and it’s just now all a bit more relaxed? Perhaps now it stops with O5S and a waterproofer is accepted to fix any dribbles in the future?. I have to say the whole thing looks better quality than my O2S on my previous van with a more premium feel. But it was good to get the acceptance formally that if another version comes along this can be swapped if I want to, but like you have said in a previous post @lohr500 , if you can be in a position to retain the factory fit that has to be a bonus without the stress of numerous replacements for van or customer! It will be interesting to see if others have a positive experience with VW as we move forward, or is it just my dealer excellence? I’m off to a music festival with the van in Cornwall this week so at least I can be a happy relaxed contented customer as we pop the roof under a grey sky - not like those customers on this thread with new vans who just suffered and felt pain & anguish at the start of all this fiasco. At least it will give confidence with anyone still purchasing new vans out there, who are still waiting for delivery or looking at used 22-24.. which will all be under warranty with a fix in place.

Hi So we had a rain test at the weekend and yes it leaked only a couple of small drips in two hours of rain, similar to the yours. I had read your response siting your written approval to use Aquatex without any warranty implications from its application, followed by an option on next bellows interation. I thought this could be a good option as it was a minor leak in comparison to previous bellows and we could wait to a more suitable time if we so wished for the next version, we are on bellows No 3 and damage to the Van is always a risk.
We contacted Rhiannon to log the leak issue and suggested we take the same course of action as yourself, her reply was interesting. We only mentioned a customer of breeze and no other reference, her reply said she had contacted Breeze and confirms that none of their customers had been given permission written or otherwise to use Aquatex, she said we were free to choose to use it but it would be at our risk and if shown to of affected anything then the warranty claim would be refused. I would be really interested to see your written reply authorising the use of aquatex, if you feel that showing it on here is not the right thing for you, could we DM? For me the saga continues!

 

[P600BOO]

Hi So we had a rain test at the weekend and yes it leaked only a couple of small drips in two hours of rain, similar to the yours. I had read your response siting your written approval to use Aquatex without any warranty implications from its application, followed by an option on next bellows interation. I thought this could be a good option as it was a minor leak in comparison to previous bellows and we could wait to a more suitable time if we so wished for the next version, we are on bellows No 3 and damage to the Van is always a risk.
We contacted Rhiannon to log the leak issue and suggested we take the same course of action as yourself, her reply was interesting. We only mentioned a customer of breeze and no other reference, her reply said she had contacted Breeze and confirms that none of their customers had been given permission written or otherwise to use Aquatex, she said we were free to choose to use it but it would be at our risk and if shown to of affected anything then the warranty claim would be refused. I would be really interested to see your written reply authorising the use of aquatex, if you feel that showing it on here is not the right thing for you, could we DM? For me the saga continues!

I think we would all like conformation that it was received in writing from Breeze that it was OK to use Aquatex. Would be even better to see a copy of that letter.

 

[lohr500]

I think we would all like conformation that it was received in writing from Breeze that it was OK to use Aquatex. Would be even better to see a copy of that letter.

It would be a very handy document to have filed away for all of us who have used Aquatex, just in case there are any unforeseen issues in the longer term.

Personally I don't think there will be any problems with Aquatex as it is a well proven product supplied and recommended by arguably the best caravan awning manufacturer in the business.

All the feedback so far from everyone who has used it on their bellows is very positive. I can't recall a single post highlighting any issues after using it.

Given the back story and several failed attempts to rectify the situation themselves, I also think that VW wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court or with the Motor Ombudsman if they refused a warranty due to the application of Aquatex

 

[Nimrod]

I think we would all like conformation that it was received in writing from Breeze that it was OK to use Aquatex. Would be even better to see a copy of that letter.

Agreed!
I'd also appreciate seeing the written confirmation.

I'm getting the same kind of unhelpful messaging from Rhiannon, ie: VW won't accept my videos and photos as proof of leaking and a full leak test by the dealership is necessary for a warranty claim, even though the dealership fully accept and support my claim and agree the leak test is absolutely unnecessary.

I've tried to point out, that to request a new bellows, if you already have one which doesn't leak, is not logical and indeed idiotic given that non-leaking bellows are as rare as hens teeth!

We've raised an official complaint on this, and are currently awaiting to hear from Rhiannon, VW's response!!

So, I'm clearly very interested to know how @OxonCalifornia has managed to circumvent all of this frustrating red tape?

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

My 03S bellows (Sep 23), tested last night in the wild, 3 moderately rainy & windy (20 mph) showers in the evening, probably 45 minutes each. No leaks. I never tested in the rain, before using Aquatex inside and out. Pretty happy so far. Survived hose pipe test and now blown rain directly onto front.

 

[SusiBus]

Our test, when our roof leaked UNDER the rubber seal, was done during an exceptionally hard down pour. Has any one else experienced this happening, not experiencing a heavy down pour, but under leaking?

 

[Nimrod]

Our test, when our roof leaked UNDER the rubber seal, was done during an exceptionally hard down pour. Has any one else experienced this happening, not experiencing a heavy down pour, but under leaking?

Yes, ours did the same. We had just had the bellows replaced by SMG with an 05S. Tested the next day/night. Initial leaking on front corner seams, then as the night progressed the front bottom rubber seal started to let in water too.

See my earlier post, number #3897

 

[SusiBus]

Soooo…update..been in van for last 3 hrs and for last two it’s been a constant deluge with a very light breeze allowing front of bellows to get wet and then saturate for a bit.

It’s nearly a perfect result but after an hour the drivers side ( offside)corner vertical seam only formed a small drip on inside just where it flares away at bottom. Throughout this steadily got larger over next hour but then stopped forming any more and did not drip off. Once the rain has stopped it wicked back into the material so didn’t fall.

All other 3 vertical corner seams are dry despite being very wet on outside.
No water on any of the inside canvas, zip stitching or horizontal seams

Bitter sweet really but one drip that didn’t fall I believe is a result if that’s as far as it goes and the journey everyone has been on.

Heavy rain again at 8pm going back out there for a a nightwatch! - now it will be interesting to see as it’s saturated now whether a second heavy consistent downpour will totally breach and I get more than one drip that retreated when rain stopped?



View attachment 126369

View attachment 126370

View attachment 126371

View attachment 126372

View attachment 126373

Last pic.
You can see the bottom rubber seal lifting in the corner where the bellows are very taut. This is the same on ours, and where it leaked the most, under the seal.

 

[SusiBus]

Yes, ours did the same. We had just had the bellows replaced by SMG with an 05S. Tested the next day/night. Initial leaking on front corner seams, then as the night progressed the front bottom rubber seal started to let in water too.

See my earlier post, number #3897

We are dealing with SMG Tonbridge, so they can't say they have never heard of the under leak before.

 

[Nimrod]

We are dealing with SMG Tonbridge, so they can't say they have never heard of the under leak before.

They're not saying that to us.

In fact SMG have been excellent and clearly share our frustration about the leaking.
If only VW would do more to help!

It's really unfair on the dealerships, who are having to take the brunt of all our collective frustrations with the new bellows design. Especially as their hands are as tied as ours!

 

[Kev56]

Had my van for 6 months now. Os3
And it leaks from day one. Talked to the powers that be and decided to leave it until it was sorted.
Honestly for a 70k van this really is a farkin joke. What did they fit on previous vans? This whole debacle isa joke. Trillion dollar company and we are talking about spraying tent sealant.

 

[sidepod]

Is this to do with too much tension on the bellows?
Makes sense if a stitched seam is stretched then those needle holes will elongate thus allowing water ingress.

I noticed when raising the roof on the Ocean, the motor whirs away but at the end of the travel it clearly starts to strain as it tensions the fabric.

Perhaps stopping the motor immediately it reaches full travel but before it tensions too much?

 

[Corradobrit]

Is this to do with too much tension on the bellows?
Makes sense if a stitched seam is stretched then those needle holes will elongate thus allowing water ingress.

I noticed when raising the roof on the Ocean, the motor whirs away but at the end of the travel it clearly starts to strain as it tensions the fabric.

Perhaps stopping the motor immediately it reaches full travel but before it tensions too much?

I would say definitely a contributing factor. Overtensioning and the stretchy nature of the fabric. That said I have manual bellows and my 03S still leak like a sieve. I would like to think there is less tension applied by the gas rams vs the active hydraulic system on the Ocean.