Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[markbrown83]

Actually the new bellows appeared 9/22. Us poor folks on the Continent only get 2 years, so time is even more of the essence. I can see some owners not figuring out a problem exists within the warranty period assuming they are fair weather campers and don't subscribe to forums like this.

Exactly. For a lot of people these vans are leisure vehicles and used in nice weather. I bet there are a lot of people that don’t actually find out about the leaking problem in the first place.

It’ll be an issue for owners who buy them in the used market when they are traded in / sold in a few years.

I wonder if VW will honour a pop top replacement out of warranty. They should. I think they probably would.

 

[Corradobrit]

I wonder if VW will honour a pop top replacement out of warranty.

Kidding, right? Not a chance VW would replace the bellows on their dime, out of warranty. Their publicity and paperwork on the subject says 'some' not 'all' 03S are affected giving them a Get Out of Jail Free card.

 

[Julesverne2000]

Well. Everyone who bought a van in the last three years has a 3 year warranty. 5 if you paid for the upgrade, or got as part of an offer.

Given the new bellows came in only last year anyone with failing bellows still has around 2.5 years warranty left. More if they upgraded.

This has been the point all along to everyones ire on this topic.

It’s been pants and VW screwed up but they were always going to put it right eventually and everyone affected get their van fixed for free on request.

If only it were on request and not after testing at the dealership.

 

[dspuk]

Actually the new bellows appeared 9/22. Us poor folks on the Continent only get 2 years, so time is even more of the essence. I can see some owners not figuring out a problem exists within the warranty period assuming they are fair weather campers and don't subscribe to forums like this.

Yes, my mistake - added an edit.

 

[markbrown83]

View attachment 118567

Kidding, right? Not a chance VW would replace the bellows on their dime, out of warranty. Their publicity and paperwork on the subject says 'some' not 'all' 03S are affected giving them a Get Out of Jail Free card.

If it’s a recall issue or eventually is one they may not have a choice.

 

[Corradobrit]

If it’s a recall issue or eventually is one they may not have a choice.

99.99% sure that will never happen either as it's not a safety issue.

 

[dspuk]

If it’s a recall issue or eventually is one they may not have a choice.

It will never be a recall. Recalls are a legal mandatory item requiring registering with the authorities and tracking of repairs. Nearly always a safety issue. It will always be a change by customer request or at an outside chance change at service.

 

[dspuk]

If only it were on request and not after testing at the dealership.

I guess it depends on the actual fail rate of the new old bellows. There are some people here who have had no issues vs a vocal “majority” who have. Being vocal through does not give an actual fail rate and nearly always skews it.

IF the fail rate is actually lower then made out to be on this thread then I would not say it’s beyond the pale to test it.

If as high as made out, given most owners with the issue have had 12 months of pain, VW should just change on all models in the vin range affected on service plus some sort of goodwill offer (free 3 years service etc).

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

I think I'll keep the bellows tag in a safe place. I will need it as proof they are 04S when it comes to selling it. You can't prove anything with the part number!

I would think the VW system would have the job on file but I got no paperwork saying they were swapped.

 

[Corradobrit]

I think I'll keep the bellows tag in a safe place. I will need it as proof they are 04S when it comes to selling it. You can't prove anything with the part number!

I would think the VW system would have the job on file but I got no paperwork saying they were swapped.

Yet another check off item for the PPI. Have hosepipe, will test.

 

[stationmaster]

You’ll have a job getting VW to replace a product under warranty that isn’t faulty just because it isn’t the most recent version of it. It wouldn’t be reasonable at all.

I guess that depends upon how much of a fault there is with the model of bellows you have on your van - the fact that VW saw the need for a subsequent revision to the model you have, gestures towards the fact that it was required to fix an issue.

Reasonable has a lot to do with your perspective and the way you use your van - in my view? It is reasonable. In your view, it is not reasonable. Both of us correct to some degree most likely

Anyway, in the case you have the 03S bellows, i am saying it makes sense to wait for the final revision/fix to have them replaced.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I guess that depends upon how much of a fault there is with the model of bellows you have on your van - the fact that VW saw the need for a subsequent revision to the model you have, gestures towards the fact that it was required to fix an issue.

Reasonable has a lot to do with your perspective and the way you use your van - in my view? It is reasonable. In your view, it is not reasonable. Both of us correct to some degree most likely

Anyway, in the case you have the 03S bellows, i am saying it makes sense to wait for the final revision/fix to have them replaced.

It doesn’t matter what I think. It’s VW who have to think it’s reasonable to get a warranty claim approved.

 

[stationmaster]

I guess that depends upon how much of a fault there is with the model of bellows you have on your van - the fact that VW saw the need for a subsequent revision to the model you have, gestures towards the fact that it was required to fix an issue.

Reasonable has a lot to do with your perspective and the way you use your van - in my view? It is reasonable. In your view, it is not reasonable. Both of us correct to some degree most likely

Anyway, in the case you have the 03S bellows, i am saying it makes sense to wait for the final revision/fix to have them replaced.

And...my views are always well considered and reasonable.

 

[stationmaster]

It doesn’t matter what I think. It’s VW who have to think it’s reasonable to get a warranty claim approved.

You are correct on that one.

 

[Paul Mckay 1965]

Spoke to Adrian at VW California 6.1 Customer Care today. Confirmed still waiting for the replacement bellows. The delivery date is still not known.
Clarified that any gesture of goodwill will be with the dealer I purchased the Cali from.
This saga just continues.
Ombudsman have confirmed that my complaint is still in the queue.
Waiting for Trading Standards to respond to my query.
I’ve had some interest from the media outlets I’ve contacted but as yet no one looks interested in running an article.
MP has acknowledged my email but no response yet.

 

[andyinluton]

Ombudsman have confirmed that my complaint is still in the queue.
Waiting for Trading Standards to respond to my query.
I’ve had some interest from the media outlets I’ve contacted but as yet no one looks interested in running an article.
MP has acknowledged my email but no response yet.

What do you hope to achieve from contacting any of the above?

Ombadsman may assist with rejection of the van, is that what you are after?
Trading standards - not really their remit.
Media - not exactly a huge story is it, some T6.1 roofs leak, VW has a fix, end of story.
MP - unless he's looking to buy one, why should they be interested?

Just keep annoying both your VW dealer & VW customer services, at the end of the day they are the ones that have the ability to fix the problem.

 

[Paul Mckay 1965]

Ombudsman to investigate
Trading Standards they have powers under legislation.
Media - to bring attention to what’s happening
MP again to assist and get answers
Dealer isn’t interested

 

[CampervanFlattie]

Spoke to Adrian at VW California 6.1 Customer Care today. Confirmed still waiting for the replacement bellows. The delivery date is still not known.
Clarified that any gesture of goodwill will be with the dealer I purchased the Cali from.
This saga just continues.
Ombudsman have confirmed that my complaint is still in the queue.
Waiting for Trading Standards to respond to my query.
I’ve had some interest from the media outlets I’ve contacted but as yet no one looks interested in running an article.
MP has acknowledged my email but no response yet.

Not sure on the holdup as my dealer ordered the bellows yesterday and there were 13 available Of the released upgraded ones at VW. I have, of course, sought confirmation that before they fit them they confirm to me they have the latest/final version (if indeed anyone really knows).

 

[Cumbrian Cali]

Got the chance to do a quick first test today - 15 mins of constant rain-like spray and glad to see no drips coming through, where it would have been dripping internally with the original bellows.

Will need to repeat it a few more times with gradually increasing water pressure to be fully confident.

I’m still waiting on a response from the dealer and VW CV Exec Office as the manufacturing date is still a big concern.

Hello, we got our bellows finally replaced 2 weeks ago, they weren't the latest version..despite us trying to insist! Our local van centre said they were told they had to install them by vw and if it leaks we were still under warranty. Unfortunately the van centre removed the tag so I'm thinking they were 3s. Anyway..had the van out today in the rain (c 1-2ml constant light rain) and as the bellows got saturated after about 4 hours a leak appeared...from the corner of the side window (our drive is on a slant).. it went from 1 drip to 5 drips as the day went on and also leaked along the front between the rubber and van. It is a marked improvement from our other bellows that would have flooded the inside in this weather, but still not good enough! The only reason I'm posting is we put the van up at 7 and the leak started about half 11...so I doubt it would have showed up in a hose test and apparantly the replacment bellows past the van centres water test. Dry day tomorrow so we can get the bellows dry x

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Hello, we got our bellows finally replaced 2 weeks ago, they weren't the latest version..despite us trying to insist! Our local van centre said they were told they had to install them by vw and if it leaks we were still under warranty. Unfortunately the van centre removed the tag so I'm thinking they were 3s. Anyway..had the van out today in the rain (c 1-2ml constant light rain) and as the bellows got saturated after about 4 hours a leak appeared...from the corner of the side window (our drive is on a slant).. it went from 1 drip to 5 drips as the day went on and also leaked along the front between the rubber and van. It is a marked improvement from our other bellows that would have flooded the inside in this weather, but still not good enough! The only reason I'm posting is we put the van up at 7 and the leak started about half 11...so I doubt it would have showed up in a hose test and apparantly the replacment bellows past the van centres water test. Dry day tomorrow so we can get the bellows dry x

What a waste of labour.

Suggests a shortage of the new canvas; If the textile used comes from china/far east it will be taking longer to arrive at the moment

 

[RockinNRollin]

Hello, we got our bellows finally replaced 2 weeks ago, they weren't the latest version..despite us trying to insist! Our local van centre said they were told they had to install them by vw and if it leaks we were still under warranty. Unfortunately the van centre removed the tag so I'm thinking they were 3s. Anyway..had the van out today in the rain (c 1-2ml constant light rain) and as the bellows got saturated after about 4 hours a leak appeared...from the corner of the side window (our drive is on a slant).. it went from 1 drip to 5 drips as the day went on and also leaked along the front between the rubber and van. It is a marked improvement from our other bellows that would have flooded the inside in this weather, but still not good enough! The only reason I'm posting is we put the van up at 7 and the leak started about half 11...so I doubt it would have showed up in a hose test and apparantly the replacment bellows past the van centres water test. Dry day tomorrow so we can get the bellows dry x

If you take a photo looking at the seam at the bottom of the side window "half moon" from underneath looking up, there should be a visible black seal between the seam? Perhaps share that photo on here and we can try and assess?

Edit: photo from someone else earlier in the thread, the black sealing strip is visible in this photo as an outline on the bottom right of the seam in the close-up photo - yes there are water drops here (but the overall result seemed positive) but that black sealing strip definitely wasn't there on the 03S (which I've also attached a photo of).

 

[markbrown83]

If you take a photo looking at the seam at the bottom of the side window "half moon" from underneath looking up, there should be a visible black seal between the seam? Perhaps share that photo on here and we can try and assess?

Edit: photo from someone else earlier in the thread, the black sealing strip is visible in this photo as an outline on the bottom right of the seam in the close-up photo - yes there are water drops here (but the overall result seemed positive) but that black sealing strip definitely wasn't there on the 03S (which I've also attached a photo of).

View attachment 118613

View attachment 118614

Is the top photo 04S and bottom one 03S?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

If you take a photo looking at the seam at the bottom of the side window "half moon" from underneath looking up, there should be a visible black seal between the seam? Perhaps share that photo on here and we can try and assess?

Edit: photo from someone else earlier in the thread, the black sealing strip is visible in this photo as an outline on the bottom right of the seam in the close-up photo - yes there are water drops here (but the overall result seemed positive) but that black sealing strip definitely wasn't there on the 03S (which I've also attached a photo of).

View attachment 118613

View attachment 118614

Looks like the 04S bellows aren’t waterproof either then based on those photos.

 

[Corradobrit]

If you take a photo looking at the seam at the bottom of the side window "half moon" from underneath looking up, there should be a visible black seal between the seam? Perhaps share that photo on here and we can try and assess?

Edit: photo from someone else earlier in the thread, the black sealing strip is visible in this photo as an outline on the bottom right of the seam in the close-up photo - yes there are water drops here (but the overall result seemed positive) but that black sealing strip definitely wasn't there on the 03S (which I've also attached a photo of).

View attachment 118613

View attachment 118614

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier but are we talking about the new 04S or the new new 04S post 9/11? With or without the A sticker for completeness

 

[RockinNRollin]

Hi all. So I have hose tested my 04S bellows. I don’t know if the parameters are correct or enough of a test but I set them out below with pics.

My bellows are my 3rd set. 04S dated 23/10/23, so before the magic 9/11/23 manufacture date.

Conditions of test:
1. Duration 30 minutes checking inside of bellows every 5 mins.
2. Used garden hose
3. What I would call heavy rain. The type in which if you’re in the van and need a wee you’re holding it for a break in the weather.
4. Pointed hose at front and 1 side. Split time 60-40 front to side. Was careful not to hit the side vent.

Results:
1. One drip on side window after 15 mins. Got no worse
2. No other drops from any seams
3. Some moisture at the bottom of the front of bellows where fixed to van.
4. External bellows have definitely been treated. The water runs off like it’s a waxed surface.
5. External bellows soaked - colour change to dark grey
6. Internal fabric (excluding comments above) is bone dry.

I would consider this acceptable. I would still like to test in prolonged rain.

Any advice on further test parameters would be greatly received.


View attachment 117217View attachment 117218View attachment 117219View attachment 117220

This was the earlier post I was referencing. Top photo in my previous post is the 04S from this quoted post, second photo was my 03S. @From tent to van suggested a few drops and it didn't get any worse, there was subsequent discussion about less waxing of the threads and they might swell after a few wettings. I'm fairly sure @From tent to van hasn't had chance to do any subsequent testing so we don't know if that theory stands.

I think this was before the new part number that's apparently been available since the 17th January and the date of the 04S bellows in this case was prior to the magic date.

There are just too many unknowns at the moment. It's the wrong time of year (depending on how you look at it!) for testing the canvas unless you've got drying facilities or a known dry spell approaching. Until we get solid confirmation from VWEO or anyone else, I think it's just going to be a case of suck it and see.