Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[RockinNRollin]

Short term solution requiring regular treatments. The stretchy material will continuously develop leaks due to the stresses at the seams.

Perhaps - if you're right, that suggests unless a totally different method of joining the fabric components is used, the new material isn't workable?

 

[Corradobrit]

Perhaps - if you're right, that suggests unless a totally different method of joining the fabric components is used, the new material isn't workable?

Well VW went for a triple skinned bellows material for the Multivan Concept. I would suggest the same fabric might be needed for the T6.1 as that additional layer might be used for sealing purposes. I can't think of another reason for the need for that extra layer. Also the seam construction and stitching appear a lot more robust on the MV.

 

[CallsignCalifornia]

Mine is being replaced at the start of October, I will report back here whether that achieves a fix or not.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Yes mine is due to be replaced in the first week of October too. I'm not optimistic . . .

 

[NickE]

Can anybody explain why bellows are being replaced at significant cost in labour and parts to VW when apparently there has been no change to said bellows?

Is it simply that dealers want the work? Is it some doomed throw of the dice hoping that somehow by magic the problem will go away?

We all know that the problem is so fundamental that only a design-manufacturing change will fix leaks that occur all over the bellows. But the change that needs to happen first is for VW to move from a corporate culture of denial-based bureaucracy to one where customers come first. Is anybody at VW out there listening?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hi Apologises for the delay in replying.

There will be some dealers that know more than others, there could be a number of different factors for the reasoning why. How many they sell for instance? Or how far they report it to Volkswagen when there is an issue.

The other thing could be down to that not all Van Centres are a California centre so your local dealership might be none the wiser if they don’t sell California from New.

Us at Breeze as a dealership our dealing directly with the head of service and product for Volkswagen Uk and this is who we are reporting too and getting information from.

Thanks Tom.

 

[Jabberwocky]

came via the Forum and the Hi when they mean monitoring I’m guessing the amount of cases of the replacements being faulty.

The part number for what is fitted when a vehicle leaves the factory is on an internal system ETKA I believe it’s called. This will list every part number when it left the factory. If replacements have been fitted the only people that could tell you would be the dealer that ordered the parts.

Hope that makes sense?

During my own investigation into this Bellows saga I have been given three differing part numbers for the new Ocean Bellows. They are below.

1: 7LA 875 059 7 MH
2: 7LA 875 059 C7 MH
3: W7LA 875 059 C7 MH

Am I correct that part numbers 2: and 3: are correct?

(sorry to trouble you Tom)

 

[RockinNRollin]

Can anybody explain why bellows are being replaced at significant cost in labour and parts to VW when apparently there has been no change to said bellows?

Is it simply that dealers want the work? Is it some doomed throw of the dice hoping that somehow by magic the problem will go away?

We all know that the problem is so fundamental that only a design-manufacturing change will fix leaks that occur all over the bellows. But the change that needs to happen first is for VW to move from a corporate culture of denial-based bureaucracy to one where customers come first. Is anybody at VW out there listening?

The dealerships have to obtain authorisation from VW to replace the bellows - they simply report the symptoms and VW's process with dictate what happens next. I doubt it's a work thing - the van centres I know of are massively struggling with workload in the service department. My guess is VW (either UK or Germany) are of the view only a proportion of bellows are affected, so replace and it's likely the replacement will perform. There could be an element of truth to this as of the "leakers" on here, it's not consistent - some seem to leak more than others (which could be down to conditions of course). It's therefore entirely possible there are people out there who are happy too(and we're less likely to see them on here as forums are generally for enthusiasts and those with problems).

The bottom line is I think VW's perspective is "we're seeing some failures" but not a universal failure. Therefore deduce it's probably manufacturing that's the problem, therefore replacements hopefully will make the problem go away. That's fine until you get a high proportion of the replacements failing; I think we're just on the start of that journey, and I think reports going back to VW of failing replacements will make a lot more noise than the original fitted bellows leaking.

Watch this space . . .

 

[Kayleigh]

Can anybody explain why bellows are being replaced at significant cost in labour and parts to VW when apparently there has been no change to said bellows?

Is it simply that dealers want the work? Is it some doomed throw of the dice hoping that somehow by magic the problem will go away?

We all know that the problem is so fundamental that only a design-manufacturing change will fix leaks that occur all over the bellows. But the change that needs to happen first is for VW to move from a corporate culture of denial-based bureaucracy to one where customers come first. Is anybody at VW out there listening?

Yes, but what if VW release a statement that authorises the use of seam sealant to resolve the problem (which may indeed fix the issue). If you were thinking of rejecting based on the bellows issue, would that nullify the possibility?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Well, some updates from today.

First of all I'm eating humble pie because the dealer Master tech did indeed find the part number and the serial number matches that of the little white QC tag. (Location pictures attached).

The old part number is: 7LA8750597MH
The new part number is: 7LA875059C7MH

Looks like I'm going to get version 'C'. Whilst there may be some concerns if this is also watertight, I'm a bit more confident VW are taking it seriously by at least double-checking part numbers. So I hope they'll be all over it if version 'C' is problematical.

***

Today, I also had a call from VW Customer Care apologising for the troubles I've had with the Pop-top. Whilst Shahid is out of the office atm, the guy today said Shahid is now handling and co-ordinating my case. So another step in the right direction.

Pop top still not deploying properly so dealer has escalated that problem to VW too.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Can anybody explain why bellows are being replaced at significant cost in labour and parts to VW when apparently there has been no change to said bellows?

Is it simply that dealers want the work? Is it some doomed throw of the dice hoping that somehow by magic the problem will go away?

We all know that the problem is so fundamental that only a design-manufacturing change will fix leaks that occur all over the bellows. But the change that needs to happen first is for VW to move from a corporate culture of denial-based bureaucracy to one where customers come first. Is anybody at VW out there listening?

I guess because there has been a change to version 'C' and maybe there just aren't enough stats out there as to whether version 'C' fixes the problem or not. Or maybe some Version C replacements weren't really version 'C' which might explain why they pulled mine apart.

Our dealer has said that the cases of leaking pop-tops has dried-up (forgive the pun). I hope he's correct but I think VW accepting the issue is the main take-out from this. So long as they accept a problem exists, they should be able to fix it - given some time...

 

[Corradobrit]

I guess because there has been a change to version 'C' and maybe there just aren't enough stats out there as to whether version 'C' fixes the problem or not. Or maybe some Version C replacements weren't really version 'C' which might explain why they pulled mine apart.

Our dealer has said that the cases of leaking pop-tops has dried-up (forgive the pun). I hope he's correct but I think VW accepting the issue is the main take-out from this. So long as they accept a problem exists, they should be able to fix it - given some time...

Several German owners have had the 'C' version installed and they also leaked.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Several German owners have had the 'C' version installed and they also leaked.

Are we certain they’re “C” or just recent?

 

[Corradobrit]

Are we certain they’re “C” or just recent?

They had the letter 'C' in the part number.

 

[I feel camping]

Well, some updates from today.

First of all I'm eating humble pie because the dealer Master tech did indeed find the part number and the serial number matches that of the little white QC tag. (Location pictures attached).

The old part number is: 7LA8750597MH
The new part number is: 7LA875059C7MH

Looks like I'm going to get version 'C'. Whilst there may be some concerns if this is also watertight, I'm a bit more confident VW are taking it seriously by at least double-checking part numbers. So I hope they'll be all over it if version 'C' is problematical.

***

Today, I also had a call from VW Customer Care apologising for the troubles I've had with the Pop-top. Whilst Shahid is out of the office atm, the guy today said Shahid is now handling and co-ordinating my case. So another step in the right direction.

Pop top still not deploying properly so dealer has escalated that problem to VW too.

View attachment 114904

View attachment 114905

Hi, can you please be more exact where the part number is. Is in on the insite of the bellows, can be seen with bellows mounted?

 

[Corradobrit]

Hi, can you please be more exact where the part number is. Is in on the insite of the bellows, can be seen with bellows mounted?

Looks to be stuck to right side plastic baton near the vent. My guess it will be hard to see with bellows installed without risk of damage.

 

[RockinNRollin]

So it begs the question, what’s different about the “C” version?

 

[Corradobrit]

So it begs the question, what’s different about the “C” version?

Nothing obvious.

 

[ParachuteMan]

Hi Tom, do all the VW Van Centers know about this product complaint to VWCV UK and its escalation to VWCV Group? I ask because I have the same trouble of a leaking pop top canvas that has been replaced under warranty and that replacement (last week) also leaks. I am now at a position of having to make a decision, keep the van and wait for a solution from VW or reject my purchase under the The Consumer Rights Act 2015. I just wanted to know how much information The Van Centers are likely to have about this problem as it seems some know/communicate more/less information that others.
Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.

 

[ParachuteMan]

Hi Tom, do all the VW Van Centers know about this product complaint to VWCV UK and its escalation to VWCV Group? I ask because I have the same trouble of a leaking pop top canvas that has been replaced under warranty and that replacement (last week) also leaks. I am now at a position of having to make a decision, keep the van and wait for a solution from VW or reject my purchase under the The Consumer Rights Act 2015. I just wanted to know how much information The Van Centers are likely to have about this problem as it seems some know/communicate more/less information that others.
Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.

Hi. I picked up my new Ocean yesterday’ from Manchester and mentioned Tom’s update above. They know about this and will support any recall. I’ve bought a topper cos I don’t want to be back and forth until it’s sorted

 

[ArunAlec]

The dealerships have to obtain authorisation from VW to replace the bellows - they simply report the symptoms and VW's process with dictate what happens next. I doubt it's a work thing - the van centres I know of are massively struggling with workload in the service department. My guess is VW (either UK or Germany) are of the view only a proportion of bellows are affected, so replace and it's likely the replacement will perform. There could be an element of truth to this as of the "leakers" on here, it's not consistent - some seem to leak more than others (which could be down to conditions of course). It's therefore entirely possible there are people out there who are happy too(and we're less likely to see them on here as forums are generally for enthusiasts and those with problems).

The bottom line is I think VW's perspective is "we're seeing some failures" but not a universal failure. Therefore deduce it's probably manufacturing that's the problem, therefore replacements hopefully will make the problem go away. That's fine until you get a high proportion of the replacements failing; I think we're just on the start of that journey, and I think reports going back to VW of failing replacements will make a lot more noise than the original fitted bellows leaking.

Watch this space . . .

Also, assuming that VW buy the canvas as a fully finished “tent” from a specialist supplier they probably simply bill the supplier for any faulty roofs. So VW don’t actually loose money just reputation, so no real urgency.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Also, assuming that VW buy the canvas as a fully finished “tent” from a specialist supplier they probably simply bill the supplier for any faulty roofs. So VW don’t actually loose money just reputation, so no real urgency.

Possibly although liability I expect would be limited to the value of the goods and not the labour and overheads which are probably similar.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Well, some updates from today.

First of all I'm eating humble pie because the dealer Master tech did indeed find the part number and the serial number matches that of the little white QC tag. (Location pictures attached).

The old part number is: 7LA8750597MH
The new part number is: 7LA875059C7MH

Looks like I'm going to get version 'C'. Whilst there may be some concerns if this is also watertight, I'm a bit more confident VW are taking it seriously by at least double-checking part numbers. So I hope they'll be all over it if version 'C' is problematical.

Hi, I had my leaking canvas bellows replaced last week with the new "C" version. Sadly I have to report that it leaked when it rained overnight on Saturday. Rain was light as was the wind. The leaks were centred around the seams and the stitching. Annoying to say the least!! Getting ready to reject the vehicle and request a refund.

 

[Cali Down Under]

What a shame Jabberwocky. Is it not worth requesting that they temporarily give you the previous bellows until VW have managed a real fix for this problem?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have a feeling that damage to the old bellows will have been inflicted by the removal process and the new bellows is now glued in place (corners) and undoing repair work could also damage the new bellows. I am speculating here of course but non the less it has a degree of logic about it.