New Engine?

[Perfectos]

That's useful information. I wonder if that's because they know it helps from some in-depth understanding of the problem or because they know that customers want to see that when they sell it. Did they test the compression (bored) before trading it and giving you the money or after at their own risk ?

I can see You’re new to this vw thang ? deny everything !

 

[kave]

So, as always on forums feelings are mixed up with facts, there are certain issues with a specific range of years where VW admits there was a production issue. All engines can break, you are not 100% safe in a 140 or a lesser engine at all. By neighbor bought a Transporter, 2014 T5 with 140HP engine with 200.000km, on the way home from the private seller engine started to sound bad. He visited the authorized VW garage with it, engine needed replacement. Ge ended up getting a second hand engine from a small garage.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

So, as always on forums feelings are mixed up with facts, there are certain issues with a specific range of years where VW admits there was a production issue. All engines can break, you are not 100% safe in a 140 or a lesser engine at all. By neighbor bought a Transporter, 2014 T5 with 140HP engine with 200.000km, on the way home from the private seller engine started to sound bad. He visited the authorized VW garage with it, engine needed replacement. Ge ended up getting a second hand engine from a small garage.

There are good and bad with all vehicles. If you take the most reliable vehicle as say the Toyota Yaris. There will be some owner who has had nothing but trouble and would never buy another.
Generally though we know from this and other forums that the 180 of certain years has had a higher number of engine failures than other models. Certain components in the 180 that weren’t fitted to other models had a much higher risk of failure, not all but quite a few.
The higher the mileage the more chances of failure regardless of service history. Engines will wear regardless of how often they are serviced. But won’t last very long at all if not serviced. 200k KLM’s is a fair distance and if not serviced failure is inevitable.

 

[sidepod]

Interesting reading.
It seems high chlorine levels in the air are to blame along with high level of gas condensate.
I’m no chemist but that sounds to me like too many short trips?

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:550799/FULLTEXT01.pdf

 

[sbmcd]

Interesting reading.
It seems high chlorine levels in the air are to blame along with high level of gas condensate.
I’m no chemist but that sounds to me like too many short trips?

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:550799/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Interesting, I believe patterns of use have a big impact on the EGR issue. in general Diesels with ERG's and DPF's don't like short journeys where they don't get up to full operating temperature.

 

[kave]

I would say no engines like spending their life with short trips. Neighbors driving kids 3 mins to kinderg. Off for 10 mins, then 2 min drive to scool, off for 8 mins, then a 15 min drive to work. In the end of the day it repeats in reverse, great for excessive wear.

 

[andyinluton]

I would say no engines like spending their life with short trips. Neighbors driving kids 3 mins to kinderg. Off for 10 mins, then 2 min drive to scool, off for 8 mins, then a 15 min drive to work. In the end of the day it repeats in reverse, great for excessive wear.

That’s the problem with using the van as a main vehicle, sometimes short journeys cannot be avoided.

 

[sidepod]

Reading the paper linked above it suggests soot build up on the surface of the aluminium helps to accelerate the breakdown of corrosion resistance.

 

[clarinetbcn]

I’m 67, the Cali is my only vehicle, and all short trips under 30 km are done by walking, bicycle or public transportation. In the 21st century, due to past past environmental decisions, there are consequences for where you choose to live. If you have to drive to buy food or go to work, rough times are coming. Short trips in a van will have difficult results, especially if you work in local delivery. VW is certainly not planning to support owners who use their vans for short trips. Their plan to evade owner backlash is to claim they're going electric, and you should have seen this coming, so they're off the hook.

 

[2into1]

So blanking off the egr is a non starter for MOT reasons but what about separating the cooler/heat exchanger bit and junking the cooler etc. Would that still keep the ECU happy?

Many are blanking the existing egr cooler and using a (think it's called) tafmet emulator, which convinces the engine management system (and therefore an mot tester) that the engine hasn't been tampered with. It's a much cheaper route than a £1500 (?) swap to a /D, and removes any worry that the /D cooler still might be vulnerable.

 

[2into1]

I don't want to sound like a nay-sayer, I am just trying to keep an open mind until some facts come along, I hate it when people jump on something made up or guessed that they read on another forum, then treat it as factual information when telling others. It's just misleading.

Steve. Your full reply (replies) is all over the place and smacks of denial and false optimism. (I know you were responding to other's points).

This issue has been discussed and monitored for a good 7 years before you joined, so be careful not to rubbish the experience of those who've followed it in detail for much longer.

The only reason things get heated is the continuing denial of the risk / severity of the issue by a couple of well known (and well respected members) who try and smother the issue. This is a forum for sharing experience but it feels that this type of sharing isn't welcomed.

No one is claiming it impacts all 180s. Enough worldwide evidence though has been presented (photos of opened coolers, bore wear, chemical analysis) for the theory to be shared without being rubbished just because some personal threshold of evidence quality hasn't been reached.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

There are good and bad with all vehicles. If you take the most reliable vehicle as say the Toyota Yaris. There will be some owner who has had nothing but trouble and would never buy another.
Generally though we know from this and other forums that the 180 of certain years has had a higher number of engine failures than other models. Certain components in the 180 that weren’t fitted to other models had a much higher risk of failure, not all but quite a few.
The higher the mileage the more chances of failure regardless of service history. Engines will wear regardless of how often they are serviced. But won’t last very long at all if not serviced. 200k KLM’s is a fair distance and if not serviced failure is inevitable.

If you have ever owned a certain BMW, then might have heard of the swirl flap issue. Similar issue to the vw 180 in that the engine is excellent, but can be killed with one design flaw which results in metal particles dropping into the engine, once this has happened the damage is done.

What are diesel BMW swirl flaps? Let us explain

Removing BMW's factory fitted swirl flaps are a necessity for all BMW diesel owners with affected engines. Let us explain further.

bmwspecialistreading.co.uk

Anyone owning a VW 180 can easily take steps early on to minimise the risk if there has not already been any metal particles deposited into the engine. Ie Swap the fragile EGR for the new design, or, have the exsiting one blanked + programmed out. If the DPF is damaged, you can get the internal bits removed and retain the original casing, or, fit a new hollow DPF which still looks like the original to an MOT tester - also need to get software adjusted to program out the sensor. Your van will also see a heaithey gain in BHP as a result....Yes you will be breaking emissions 'laws' but you will have peace of mind, healthy wallet & driveable van. Just buy some carbon credits to 'offset' your additional emissions if you feel bad about it, many large companies do it every day!

If the damage has already been then done then no amount of oil changes or oil testing will rectify the damage, you are just fooling yourself. You either need to invest in a new engine (+ associated parts) or sell it to WBAC, as a quick test drive round the carpark is unlikely to detect the issue!

 

[clarinetbcn]

Interesting reading.
It seems high chlorine levels in the air are to blame along with high level of gas condensate.
I’m no chemist but that sounds to me like too many short trips?

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:550799/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Finally! A study which compares the resistance of EGR coolers made of stainless steel (140) and aluminum (180) to the to the corrosive effects of exhaust gas condensate. I'm now curious to know whether the EGR cooler of the 140, which has not had this issue, is duplex stainless steel. Very interesting that the coatings applied to aluminum EGR coolers were ineffective.

 

[Steve1]

I already said I like to hear both sides above, so I don't rubbish anyone's posts.
I have also read all of the old back posts and the same in many other forums, so I do know the back story. (I didn't go as far as joining the Facebook page though !)
I also welcome the theories you mention as long as people say they are that, rather than pretend they are facts, which is what very often happens.
The whole point of a theory, is that you then try to prove it if you can, until then it remains a theory not fact. Still can be useful as long as it goes with that truth.
The only thing I don't welcome is pages of personal insults, it's annoying, but you know ... I'll get over it

 

[Steve1]

.

Steve. Your full reply (replies) is all over the place and smacks of denial and false optimism. (I know you were responding to other's points).

This issue has been discussed and monitored for a good 7 years before you joined, so be careful not to rubbish the experience of those who've followed it in detail for much longer.

The only reason things get heated is the continuing denial of the risk / severity of the issue by a couple of well known (and well respected members) who try and smother the issue. This is a forum for sharing experience but it feels that this type of sharing isn't welcomed.

No one is claiming it impacts all 180s. Enough worldwide evidence though has been presented (photos of opened coolers, bore wear, chemical analysis) for the theory to be shared without being rubbished just because some personal threshold of evidence quality hasn't been reached.

Sorry my last post was a reply to this, but didn't go back to you properly see above if you want to.

 

[787driver]

For what it’s worth I replaced my engine (180) due to significant oil loss issues and had the EGR blanked off. It’s been perfect since. 40+ mpg and flew through its MOT

 

[Corradobrit]

If you have ever owned a certain BMW, then might have heard of the swirl flap issue. Similar issue to the vw 180 in that the engine is excellent, but can be killed with one design flaw which results in metal particles dropping into the engine, once this has happened the damage is done.

What are diesel BMW swirl flaps? Let us explain

Removing BMW's factory fitted swirl flaps are a necessity for all BMW diesel owners with affected engines. Let us explain further.

bmwspecialistreading.co.uk

And not dissimilar to the Audi B7 2.0T cam follower failure. My 2007 threw the codes around 65kmiles luckily before the engine was toast. Remedial work covered by the extended 10 year 120k warranty that Audi were obliged(forced) to implement to fix this poor design. Amazing how such a seemingly minor component can cause so much damage.
447 × 336

 

[Steve1]

Interesting reading.
It seems high chlorine levels in the air are to blame along with high level of gas condensate.
I’m no chemist but that sounds to me like too many short trips?

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:550799/FULLTEXT01.pdf

That's a cool paper, well done for finding that !

 

[kurienp]

I didn't go as far as joining the Facebook page though !

Good. If you do, you may just lose the will to live! #headbang

 

[Perfectos]

Finally! A study which compares the resistance of EGR coolers made of stainless steel (140) and aluminum (180) to the to the corrosive effects of exhaust gas condensate. I'm now curious to know whether the EGR cooler of the 140, which has not had this issue, is duplex stainless steel. Very interesting that the coatings applied to aluminum EGR coolers were ineffective.

Excellent find - can you post a copy in the forum resources for future ease of reference (rather than trying to find this thread )

 

[Corradobrit]

And if there is a full on move towards the use of biodiesel either completely or as a percentage ala ethanol in petrol, then things could get worse.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/15567036.2019.1623346?needAccess=true

 

[Perfectos]

Tale of woe

2016 180 Bi turbo CFCA engine failure is the EGR valve corrosion the cause of the scored and worn out bores

Hi all Just stripped down and rebuilt the engine on a 2016 T6 180 bi-turbo CFCA engine after it failed on the A557 heading for Widnes originally had the van recovered to VW van center Liverpool for repair as I thought it was just a failed injector. After a couple of weeks, they said it had no...

www.t6forum.com

 

[clarinetbcn]

Excellent find - can you post a copy in the forum resources for future ease of reference (rather than trying to find this thread )

Hi @Perfectos, I was commenting on a post by @sidepod, who found the article. I just read your post on the T6 forum, sidepod should be credited, not me.

 

[Perfectos]

Hi @Perfectos, I was commenting on a post by @sidepod, who found the article. I just read your post on the T6 forum, sidepod should be credited, not me.

Thanks for the clarification, I will correct it now

edit : @sidepod noted in T6 forum (but not a member?)

its good info that’s highly relevant to both forums, so good on you @sidepod

 

[Steve1]

Tale of woe

2016 180 Bi turbo CFCA engine failure is the EGR valve corrosion the cause of the scored and worn out bores

Hi all Just stripped down and rebuilt the engine on a 2016 T6 180 bi-turbo CFCA engine after it failed on the A557 heading for Widnes originally had the van recovered to VW van center Liverpool for repair as I thought it was just a failed injector. After a couple of weeks, they said it had no...

www.t6forum.com

That's a good one, I haven't seen that one before. I would say that one is more evidence towards number 1 of @Velma's Dad post. Especially the bit about finding a bit of aluminium stuck in the piston top. Looks like it's big chunks in that case though rather than dust or whatever, might explain why it goes from bad to quick so fast.