Oil Comsumption / Engine Problems with 2010/2011 Cali's

[AlanC]

Yes, I would agree, the main issue here is still the EGR problem... VW needs to get their act together on this; and issue formal guidance here in the UK... They should also issue more formal guidance if they think there may be other issues relating to service intervals...

They have done to some extent in the form of a TPI issued to all Commercial Vehicle dealers. But the decision to follow the TPI and thereby cover the costs involved comes down to the importer, in our case VWUK.

What needs to happen is that VW Germany should take control of this issue and recall all affected vehicles and replace the engine.

Unfortunately that won't happen unless a government decides to take them to court. Given oil consumption is not injurious to humans in the same way as emissions are, VW Germany will leave it to the local import company to respond.

My engine was replaced according to the latest TPI, but that was at my insistence and at my cost.

Alan

 

[Bobbybus]

When the EGR is changed, does the oil filter housing also need replacing? My local VW specialist quoted£1500 with the housing and 'about' £1000 without. He also says he has not heard of this problem with these engines.

 

[AlanC]

When the EGR is changed, does the oil filter housing also need replacing? My local VW specialist quoted£1500 with the housing and 'about' £1000 without. He also says he has not heard of this problem with these engines.

It is quite possible that a 'VW Specialist' has not heard of this issue as it only affects (as far as we know currently) 180bhp T5.1 BiTurbo engines. It will depend on how many 180s he has worked on.

If you talk to a VW Commercial Vehicle dealer they will know about this problem as all will have received the related TPIs and I would expect most if not all will have changed at least one 180bhp engine since 2010

As far as the oil filter housing is concerned, The label with the serial number, manufacture date and VW parts No. is stuck to the housing right beside the oil filter, so I doubt it comes in two parts.

I for one, would want the whole assembly to be changed.

Alan

 

[Bobbybus]

It is quite possible that a 'VW Specialist' has not heard of this issue as it only affects (as far as we know currently) 180bhp T5.1 BiTurbo engines. It will depend on how many 180s he has worked on.

If you talk to a VW Commercial Vehicle dealer they will know about this problem as all will have received the related TPIs and I would expect most if not all will have changed at least one 180bhp engine since 2010

As far as the oil filter housing is concerned, The label with the serial number, manufacture date and VW parts No. is stuck to the housing right beside the oil filter, so I doubt it comes in two parts.

I for one, would want the whole assembly to be changed.

Alan

Yes, you are right in that my specialist has not heard of the 'issue'. I am also of the belief that both 'parts' should be replaced.

 

[Bobbybus]

I have just had a lengthy conversation with VWCV Customer Care about this matter. The long and short of this conversation: The call taker had not heard of the problem; go to your local CV dealer and ask them about it; If there is a problem found, they will discuss the solution which will probably involve VW UK making a decision on the remedy/compensation regardless of when the problem occurs, if it occurs; your vehicle may not have a problem. I dont think she realised how ineffectual this 'solution' is.
Great. So now I have to make an appointment to have the van 'looked at' to see if there is a problem. How do they decide that then? Take the front of the vehicle off and many other parts to get access to the EGR so they can take it off and have a look inside? I don't think so. If they do an oil sample check and it is clear, it doesn't mean there wont be a problem in the future.
Come on VW, put our minds at rest! This matter affects peace of mind, residuals, monetary expense, time wasted, loss of future custom...

 

[AlanC]

B******S

Sorry, that is total nonsense. She may not have heard of the issue, but certainly the lady I spoke to at VWCV Customer Care a year ago did know about it.

I inadvertently also got the number for the dealers Customer Care number initially, and the guy there also knew about the oil consumption problems on the 180 to the point of telling me they know the batch numbers of faulty engines and the Vin No.s of the vans they were fitted in.

The fact that this oil problem has been traced back to the EGR Cooler corrosion has only been discovered by owners recently. I assume VWUK have known about it a lot longer, as they have published relevant TPI documents about it as recently as Oct 2016.

They will tell you to go to a dealer though, as it all hangs on the VW oil consumption test. The means having the oil drained, a new filter fitted, and being filled with a weighed amount of oil. You then drive for 1000kms, (about 621 miles) and take the van back. The remaining oil is drained and weighed and the engine refilled. If the drained and weighed oil is less than a certain figure, then you have the problem, and back to VWCV CS you go.

I have not heard of anyone getting their engine change paid for by VWUK since March last year. One dealer covered a used van towards the end of 2016, but that vehicle was under a resale warranty.

I ended up paying for a new engine myself last month (

Good luck

Alan

 

[Phil clark]

I read up on this lots yesterday and it all fits with what I have. VW did check the EGR first and found the gasket need replacing. How easy is it to check if I have a C or D version of the EGR as the corrosion from this is alleged to cause the excessive bore wear. Looks like the cost for new engine etc is £7k, so I wonder if anyone can recommend a good reconditioned engine supplier and fitter

 

[2into1]

How easy is it to check if I have a C or D version

It's on the part itself. If you join the facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/vwcfca/, there is a video showing all the details.

Most owners are going for new engines but through TPS (so a big discount) and getting them fitted an independent garages. Plus a new egr cooler - or blanking it off.

 

[reserves]

It's on the part itself. If you join the facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/vwcfca/, there is a video showing all the details.

Most owners are going for new engines but through TPS (so a big discount) and getting them fitted an independent garages. Plus a new egr cooler - or blanking it off.

What's TPS?

 

[Phil clark]

Thanks, will look into the TPS route, that sounds like a good option with all the horror stories I've seen about exchange engines. Unfortunately that facebook group is now closed, but I'll try and find something on youtube

 

[Phil clark]

Oops, not great with Facebook, my wife tells me closed means I have to join, not that it's closed down!! Have now joined and found the video. Also, got a quote of £4k from TPS for trade - does this mean the garage fitting it needs to buy it direct? Thanks again

 

[Andy]

When the EGR is changed, does the oil filter housing also need replacing? My local VW specialist quoted£1500 with the housing and 'about' £1000 without. He also says he has not heard of this problem with these engines.

I had egr valve replaced a year or so ago. The housing & egr valve are now all one part, is quite a lump.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[2into1]

does this mean the garage fitting it needs to buy it direct?

Phil I'm no expert, but my understanding is TPS will give the public a discount if you act a bit savvy, BUT if you know who you are going to ask to fit it, that garage will probably get a better deal.

What's TPS?

Trade Part Supplies https://tps.trade/ Genuine bits for VWs at sensible prices. I got really cheap but genuine engine battery but did 'borrow' a trade account from a mate, but just walked in and paid cash. I think he gets a bit of a rebate at the year end, so he was happy to help.

 

[AlanC]

Apparently the price VWCV dealers charge for an engine is slightly higher than TPS, in order to give TPS some wiggle room for independent garages.

Make sure you order a base engine, not a short engine.

The base engine comes assembled with a head, pistons, cam and crank shafts and the newest (D suffix) EGR. The garage will then need to take off lots of parts from the old engine and move them across, such as the turbos, cambelt and water pump surprisingly, and as expected alternator, steering pump and aircon compressor etc. You should also replace the DPF and exhaust probes as these will probably be very contaminated. May well take the best part of a week to do plus a road test.

There is a deposit charged by TPS of about £1100 which is repaid once the old engine is taken back.

I went to my local VWCV dealer and got a surprisingly good deal, plus a warranty for 2 years, so am happy with that. Having now run-in the engine is for a 1000 miles at no more than 1.5k revs, I am looking forward to getting out of lane 1.

BTW, personally I wouldn't blank off the EGR or ram a rod through the DPF. They are there for a reason, however we feel about them. The remap company Pendle won't delete the EGR or DPF in their software remap, although many other companies will.

As I live in a city, I prefer not have the possibly of my exhaust particulates or Nox gasses damaging the health of a small child on my conscience.

Stands back and ducks......

Alan

 

[BerndRos]

Apparently the price VWCV dealers charge for an engine is slightly higher than TPS, in order to give TPS some wiggle room for independent garages.

Make sure you order a base engine, not a short engine.

The base engine comes assembled with a head, pistons, cam and crank shafts and the newest (D suffix) EGR. The garage will then need to take off lots of parts from the old engine and move them across, such as the turbos, cambelt and water pump surprisingly, and as expected alternator, steering pump and aircon compressor etc. You should also replace the DPF and exhaust probes as these will probably be very contaminated. May well take the best part of a week to do plus a road test.

There is a deposit charged by TPS of about £1100 which is repaid once the old engine is taken back.

I went to my local VWCV dealer and got a surprisingly good deal, plus a warranty for 2 years, so am happy with that. Having now run-in the engine is for a 1000 miles at no more than 1.5k revs, I am looking forward to getting out of lane 1.

BTW, personally I wouldn't blank off the EGR or ram a rod through the DPF. They are there for a reason, however we feel about them. The remap company Pendle won't delete the EGR or DPF in their software remap, although many other companies will.

As I live in a city, I prefer not have the possibly of my exhaust particulates or Nox gasses damaging the health of a small child on my conscience.

Stands back and ducks......

Alan

My new VW fitted engine defo came with a cambelt & waterpump....fitted.

 

[AlanC]

Mine didn't. I did query this and was surprised when I was told the cambelt and water pump were transferred from the old engine.

Though the dealer did fit a new water pump as the new one, only fitted 22 months previously when the cam belt was done, didn't 'feel right'. I guess the supply details are now different from your engine change some 10 months earlier

I was going to contact DVLA to change the engine number, but when I asked the dealer what the new number was, was told it is the same as the old one. Apparently VW will assign the old number to the new engine if the dealer is being supplied direct from Germany, as mine was.

Of course with a TPS supply that won't be the case as I believe TPS source their engines from UK stock.

Alan

 

[2into1]

Apparently the price VWCV dealers charge for an engine is slightly higher than TPS, in order to give TPS some wiggle room for independent garages.

Make sure you order a base engine, not a short engine.

The base engine comes assembled with a head, pistons, cam and crank shafts and the newest (D suffix) EGR. The garage will then need to take off lots of parts from the old engine and move them across, such as the turbos, cambelt and water pump surprisingly, and as expected alternator, steering pump and aircon compressor etc. You should also replace the DPF and exhaust probes as these will probably be very contaminated. May well take the best part of a week to do plus a road test.

There is a deposit charged by TPS of about £1100 which is repaid once the old engine is taken back.

I went to my local VWCV dealer and got a surprisingly good deal, plus a warranty for 2 years, so am happy with that. Having now run-in the engine is for a 1000 miles at no more than 1.5k revs, I am looking forward to getting out of lane 1.

BTW, personally I wouldn't blank off the EGR or ram a rod through the DPF. They are there for a reason, however we feel about them. The remap company Pendle won't delete the EGR or DPF in their software remap, although many other companies will.

As I live in a city, I prefer not have the possibly of my exhaust particulates or Nox gasses damaging the health of a small child on my conscience.

Stands back and ducks......

Alan

Alan C has been through this, so do heed his advice. I'm just feeding back what I'm reading elsewhere.

 

[Bobbybus]

I have now spoken to VWCV (West Yorkshire) and I was told that they are aware of the problem with these engines but it is rare that they occur. A ratio of 95% ok to 5% with problems aparently and he deals with 'loads' of them. They do not check these engines for the problem and only deal with the problem when it occurs.
I mentioned the TPI but he didn't make comment and did not seem unduly concerned about it. They do not check the weight of oil at change and then a set distance later as a matter of course. I guess they will if a problem has been highlighted to them.
His advice was basically: I'm more likely not to have a problem. Use the vehicle and if a problem arises, have it dealt with. And 'stop reading forums; they can be more trouble than they are worth'. Or words to that effect.
That is no consolation to those that later become affected; it's a bit of a gamble but, for the moment I'm going to hold my breath and cross my fingers that I do not have a problem. If it is to happen, it may have already, so no oil sampling or change of EGR would make any difference: if I do these and there never was going to be a problem, I will have wasted even more money. Oh, I hope the gamble pays off.

 

[AlanC]

The oil weighing is the more accurate way of establishing an accurate oil consumption and the test VWUK and I presume Germany insist is done if high oil consumption is suspected. I doubt a dealer will weigh the oil on a normal service, they will just pump in 7 litres of oil. Weighing it is quite a faf.

Although we all know about the TPIs they are issued by VW to the dealer network so a correct procedure is followed for certain repairs. I was told that one would be issued if just 5 vehicles had a common issue. So not to take much notice of it. Doesn't help if you are potentially looking at a few thousand pound repair bill!

As regards stop reading forums. Surprisingly we seem to know more about our vans than they do...I wonder why that is? Perhaps it is because we bought one and don't just do a 9-5 job answering phone calls about them.

I also hope that you will not have the problem.

Alan

 

[Phil clark]

I went to my local VWCV dealer and got a surprisingly good deal, plus a warranty for 2 years, so am happy with that. Having now run-in the engine is for a 1000 miles at no more than 1.5k revs, I am looking forward to getting out of lane 1.

Can I ask which VWCV dealer this was, as I want to find one where the mechanics know about this problem or have experience of changing the engines. Did you source the engine from TPSand have them fit it?

 

[Phil clark]

Most owners are going for new engines but through TPS (so a big discount) and getting them fitted an independent garages. Plus a new egr cooler - or blanking it off.

Has anyone been down this route and is able to recommend a good independent garage? Or has anyone been through a VW van centre and got it done for around £5k without any financial input from VW?

 

[AlanC]

Can I ask which VWCV dealer this was, as I want to find one where the mechanics know about this problem or have experience of changing the engines. Did you source the engine from TPSand have them fit it?

I went to Heritage in Bristol and they sourced the base engine direct from Germany. Germany reassign the old engine number to the new engine, so there is no need to contact DVLA to get your V5 changed, plus the engine is warrantied for 2 years. Heritage replaced two other 180 engines this year with mine in December making three.

TPS prices are slightly cheaper than the dealer price (VWUK policy I gather) and I have been told the engines are supplied to garages from UK held stock. So the engine number is likely to change.

As far as my job was concerned, it was easy. I paid a deposit of £1000 up front as I needed the van before it was booked in to the workshop. Once the engine had been delivered the van went in on a Thursday and was finished by Saturday, 18 hours is the official VWUK time allowed. After a road test on Monday and a clean I collected it on the following Wednesday. The deposit was deducted from the final bill as the old engine was returned to Germany.

Having now done a return trip to Newcastle on the motorways at no more than 56 mph, which was surprisingly easy and didn't take much longer than doing it at 70mph plus, the engine is now run-in and really smooth. MPG is around 44 on that trip with an overall mph of 34 since the system was reset.

Oh, and it isn't using any oil!

Alan

 

[fyrstyk]

I have now spoken to VWCV (West Yorkshire) and I was told that they are aware of the problem with these engines but it is rare that they occur. A ratio of 95% ok to 5% with problems aparently and he deals with 'loads' of them. They do not check these engines for the problem and only deal with the problem when it occurs.
I mentioned the TPI but he didn't make comment and did not seem unduly concerned about it. They do not check the weight of oil at change and then a set distance later as a matter of course. I guess they will if a problem has been highlighted to them.
His advice was basically: I'm more likely not to have a problem. Use the vehicle and if a problem arises, have it dealt with. And 'stop reading forums; they can be more trouble than they are worth'. Or words to that effect.
That is no consolation to those that later become affected; it's a bit of a gamble but, for the moment I'm going to hold my breath and cross my fingers that I do not have a problem. If it is to happen, it may have already, so no oil sampling or change of EGR would make any difference: if I do these and there never was going to be a problem, I will have wasted even more money. Oh, I hope the gamble pays off.

That is is a disappointing statement from West Yorkshire Van Centre. I had excellent customer service from them when I had my Norwegian CFCA in there July 2015.

My CFCA was replaced late 2016, due to oil consumption. I've taken an interest in this as I also run two CFCA Transporters at work.

Stating that the problem is rare is complete crap, there is enough evidence on the TX forums, the facebook group and the Norwegian press regarding the issues with the CFCA, never mind the information posted from the Norwegian VW importer.

In my opinion, diagnosis early on will reduce the likelihood of complete engine failure in the future, and having seen VW customer services attitude to the issue, I would rather be dealing with them asap and whilst in warranty, as they are washing hteir hands of most customers outside warranty, and their "goodwill" is lacking.

 

[Max-Felix]

Was there ever an answer to engine numbers affected or is this a red herring and the real issue is the dodgy EGR breaking up inside and particles thereof wearing the bores?

Still considering the one (discussed yesterday) as the price leaves a heck of a lot of wriggle room for a decent aftermarket warranty.

This one is CFCA045916. Dec 2011 registered. 29k miles

 

[BerndRos]

Was there ever an answer to engine numbers affected or is this a red herring and the real issue is the dodgy EGR breaking up inside and particles thereof wearing the bores?

Still considering the one (discussed yesterday) as the price leaves a heck of a lot of wriggle room for a decent aftermarket warranty.

This one is CFCA045916. Dec 2011 registered. 29k miles

No there was not an answer.

You say the van is a good price, therefore you have some financial protection for if it develops issues in the future ?

As for now, why not see if you can hire it off the owner for the weekend, put 500 miles on the clock, check the oil dipstick and you will know if it's afflicted or not.