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Oil Comsumption / Engine Problems with 2010/2011 Cali's

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fyrstyk

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Hi WelshGas

It's not just 2010/11 CFCA's. I've seen newer ones through the VW dealers.

Check the EGR cooler, as that is the root cause of the issue, If it's suffix D or later then it is ok, but if it's C or lower (and no suffix) then the EGR cooler corrodes internally.

Corrosion then passes into cylinders and gets stuck in the rings leading to bore wear.
 
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WelshGas

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That is a different cause to the manufacturing fault with the 2010/2011 engines. Thank you for the Information.:thumb
 
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fyrstyk

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What manufacturing fault are you referring to with the 2010/2011 models?

Mine is a 2010, and it was confirmed that the oil consumption was too high, and it was repaired by VW. I've not heard of any other root cause for the oil consumption on the CFCA other than the EGR cooler corrosion.
 
2into1

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I'd love to see those Norwegian documents translated into English.
 
WelshGas

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What manufacturing fault are you referring to with the 2010/2011 models?

Mine is a 2010, and it was confirmed that the oil consumption was too high, and it was repaired by VW. I've not heard of any other root cause for the oil consumption on the CFCA other than the EGR cooler corrosion.
How did they repair it?
Replacement engine, DPF, various sensors etc:.?
Details from VW are difficult to come by, but certain CFCA engines manufactured between 2010 and mid 2011 had a manufacturing fault that led to the cylinder bores becoming oval. Excess oil consumption and damage to the Anti-pollution equipment. This occurred at about 60,000 miles. VW issued a Technical Note and the Repair was basically a complete engine replacement + DPF and various sensors.
 
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fyrstyk

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Right here goes:

1st Picture
T5: Oil use in CFCA Engine
Corrosion in the exhaust gas channels of the EGR cooler
Corrosion on the cooling ribs from condensation in the exhaust gas leading to formation of (particles) in the form of aluminum hydroxide - AL(OH)3

Particles flow with the EGR cooled gases into the cylinder.


2nd Picture
T5: Oil use in CFCA Engine
New engine is in production and delivery started. 03L100 092AX (this is the new engine part number)
Improved water gallery on top with thicker parts so that the top doesn't crack. It comes with a new EGR cooler to prevent wear in the engine.

3rd Picture
T5: Oil use in CFCA Engine

Abrasive wear on piston rings and cylinder wall (Stempelringer is piston ring)

Pil means arrow, so the arrow is showing the AL(OH)3 in the sylinder walls and the state of the piston rings.
 
F

fyrstyk

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How did they repair it?
Replacement engine, DPF, various sensors etc:.?
Details from VW are difficult to come by, but certain CFCA engines manufactured between 2010 and mid 2011 had a manufacturing fault that led to the cylinder bores becoming oval. Excess oil consumption and damage to the Anti-pollution equipment. This occurred at about 60,000 miles. VW issued a Technical Note and the Repair was basically a complete engine replacement + DPF and various sensors.
Exactly what happened to mine, and the fix is indeed new engine, DPF and EGR cooler. Not sure if the bores went oval.

The new EGR cooler is designed to stop this from happening, as its the corrosion in the EGR cooler that leads to the issue, as the AL(OH)3 abrades the cylinder walls once it's made it's way into the bores and sits in the piston rings.
 
WelshGas

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Useful. Thank you.
 
AlanC

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Unfortunately VWUK are no longer willing to contribute the the cost of the replacement engine.
A number of folk with this issue in the UK have been refused now.

BernrdRos was the last person to get his Cali partly paid for by VWUK, as far as I am aware.

My van is still drinking oil like a fish.

Alan
 
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fyrstyk

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Unfortunately VWUK are no longer willing to contribute the the cost of the replacement engine.
A number of folk with this issue in the UK have been refused now.

BernrdRos was the last person to get his Cali partly paid for by VWUK, as far as I am aware.

My van is still drinking oil like a fish.

Alan
Has anyone contacted VOSA, and should this issue be mentioned to Watchdog?

It's a manufacturing defect, and as usual VW are stiffing customers and keeping quiet.
 
AlanC

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I have contacted the Guardian Consumer Champions as have others, with no result so far. Watch Dog is also on the list, but they are also getting roof complaints now.

To be honest, we are so fed up with the van and VW we are seriously considering selling it for what we can get and buying a Fiat panel van conversion. Having been a dedicated VW owner for a number of years (10 different models at last count) I now don't think that VWUK care a toss about their customers.

Alan
 
BerndRos

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Unfortunately VWUK are no longer willing to contribute the the cost of the replacement engine.
A number of folk with this issue in the UK have been refused now.

BernrdRos was the last person to get his Cali partly paid for by VWUK, as far as I am aware.

My van is still drinking oil like a fish.

Alan
AlanC....so you got nowhere with VW...what miles are you covering per litre of oil used ?
 
BerndRos

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That's just terrible. From memory mine was using about a litre of oil every 350 miles, you will recall I had to get really pushy with VWCS in order to get the the new engine etc.

Have done about 5000 miles on new engine and not a drop of oil needed.
 
WelshGas

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Unfortunately VWUK are no longer willing to contribute the the cost of the replacement engine.
A number of folk with this issue in the UK have been refused now.

BernrdRos was the last person to get his Cali partly paid for by VWUK, as far as I am aware.

My van is still drinking oil like a fish.

Alan
However, our Norwegian Forum member has now provided proof that VW are aware of the problem and even have official VW documentation . Personally it might be worth taking legal advice.
 
Spartan

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I think there must be a bit more information contained in the Norwegian bulletin (shown in the images above) that we can't see - perhaps because the pictures have been cropped?

Aluminium Hydroxide - Al(OH)3 - is that pale, 'fluffy', powder coating you often see on aluminium parts that have been exposed to the elements - it's just the natural environmental oxidisation of aluminium (you could call it corrosion or rust if you like). Although, it doesn't look very nice, it's 'useful' in that it makes the aluminium practically inert. Importantly, in this context, it's also very soft and non abrasive - around 2.5-3.0 on Mohs scale of hardness and, therefore, unlikely to be the cause of any significant engine damage/wear.

However, if the bulletin is suggesting that the Aluminium Hydroxide is getting converted to Aluminium Oxide (Al2O3) - possibly in the high temperature/pressure environment of a combustion chamber - then we have a potential candidate for the cause of engine damage/wear: Aluminium Oxide is also known as Corundum and scores 9 on Mohs hardness scale (Diamond is top with a score of 10) and, for that reason, it is commonly used as an abrasive (for example in the gritty coating of 'sandpaper').

P.S. Is it too late to get the spelling mistake corrected in the title of this thread? Might help people using search function.
 
2into1

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Aluminium Hydroxide - Al(OH)3 - is that pale, 'fluffy', powder coating you often see on aluminium parts
Couldn't let this mention go without an ironic reference to the Cali roof problem!
 
AlanC

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That's just terrible. From memory mine was using about a litre of oil every 350 miles, you will recall I had to get really pushy with VWCS in order to get the the new engine etc.

Have done about 5000 miles on new engine and not a drop of oil needed.
Getting pushy didn't work for me. I even quoted yourself and Ivor, as those vans of the same age as mine, were repaired only a few weeks before I got onto VWCS. Still no.

The Service Manager at Breeze Poole was sympathetic and helpful and together with the Area Service Manager still couldn't help. When they pursued it, they were told by Customer Services that they were very sympathetic, but their hands were tied by folk higher up the pecking order.

I have lost heart and not progressed this issue for the time being.
Others on the Facebook page have also found VWUK to be very unhelpful, although other countries are still sorting out the issue, hence the Norwegian material. BTW, this material was cropped to preserve the anonymity of the suppler.

One owner whose Caravel developed the fault while she was in France, was told by the French VW dealer that VW would replace the engine as it was a known fault. When asked if they could get it done while she was over there, she was told they couldn't do it as the van was a UK speced one and had to be repaired by the UK importers.

Which every way you turn you come up against our immovable force of the UK VW Importers.

Alan
 
L

LarsLarsen

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Hey Frystyk,
Your screenshot made it back into a T5 Forum in Germany and I would like to get some more information about where the screenshots came from. I would like to understand whether that is a translated document as well as whether VW service partners like mine near Berlin are able to access that. I guess this cannot be found in the normal Service documents like through Erwin. I looked at that with a 1h paid access.
Background: I got a replacement engine in 9/2015 and the old EGR version C. I have now more than 13.000 miles with that new engine and think the corrosion might had already started. I believe that because my EGR incl. the cooler was exchanged mid way of the 54.000 miles till engine death so each cooler might run for about 25.000 miles and must have dispensed AlOH already in that time.
Now I feel I had been decieved by VW. At least they should have notified customers on replacing the EGR cooler.

Any more evidence or hint whete to find that would be great.
Thanks & Best Regards,
Lars
 

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