Pedders suspension

[Stuart]

Or rather @B J G our posts crossed. Too early!

 

[kave]

My T6 4m 204 sags somewhat when empty and really much when in Travel mode when packed.
As soon as I find the springs I need I will swap the at once, ie 4 grey marks.

 

[Rich20]

At the California factory visit, once each Cali is completed it goes onto a laser tracking system and the setup is adjusted. This is done as each one is different depending on options etc. I would imagine springs are selected at the pre build stage again relating to options but this was never mentioned.

 

[kave]

Might be true, but 15 seconds on mobile.de I see lots of T6's where they are a bit higher front than rear.

This one:

I also opened them up in Photoshop and measured them, clearly the the air between tire and wheel arch is not the same front and back.
What is correct here? Maybe these "vans" are level with that kind of difference from the side, I don't know. I think it is a personal question, but it does not look good.

 

[CALI FATE]

Hey WelshGas, clearly you are very knowledgeable in all things Cali related and no one would deny you haven't been of great help to numerous folk on here but sometimes it does appear you are in paid employ of VW given your unwillingness to find any fault in the van.
Of course you do not have to agree with someone's opinion of a 'fault' but your regular posting to express disagreement does seem rather pointless to the discussion in hand and dare I suggest provocative.
With respect, may I suggest you stick to what you're good at helping those in need and not dismissing people's concerns just because you do not agree with them.

Haha - you gotta love WG - he has the highest horse in the world

 

[Stuart]

@kave my T6 Beach was about 30mm higher at the front when I got it. My dealer agreed it was wrong and spend ages arguing with VW over it, but they said it was within tolerances.

In the end I got the 30mm lowering springs fitted, and now it is perfect But then my preference was to get the front lower, not to make the rear higher.

 

[Skewif]

When you get a chance @Skewif, it'd be handy if you can identify what springs you have in the rear so you have a starting block. Likewise @WelshGas this would be useful to know given your zero sag. You might be able to see through the wheel arch with a rag to wipe the dirt off or failing that you'll be on your back under the rear wheel. You're looking for crude paint markings on the spring, typically 3 x pink or 2 x white, etc.

Before even talking about springs you will appreciate with 65k miles the rear spring top and bottom rubber mounts will not be like new so you are likely losing a little height gain from here. Small monies so definitely renew these if you do swap out the springs.

There's a vast array of springs applicable for the T5/6, identified by their colour markings and shared across the complete T5/6 range.
For the Cali the following list of rear springs are factory installed in this order of increasing weight...
3x white, 3x pink, 4x pink, 1x white, 2x white, and then for 'bad roads' we step up to...
1x grey, 2x grey, 3x grey, 4x grey and so it goes on...
Each spring increment covers a weight range of approx. 50kg, e.g.. 1200-1250kgs.
So seems reasonable to presume that after the factory spring selection all Cali variants come out at the same height irrespective of their differing weights due to model & options. eg. Ocean/Beach/4Motion/no.of seats/DSG or manual/spare wheel or not/ etc.
But the difference in weight between the installed springs could be between 50 & 100kgs.
And then given its likely a different allocation between springs & weight could have occurred when the T6 was introduced its not really a surprise that with all these potential combinations why we have some Cali's appearing lower/higher than others for a similar specification.

It's unlikely we will glean what these actual weight loadings are for each spring type so all we have to work with is this progressive loading scale. I.e. See what you've got and best guess which spring further up the list you want to jump to!

The 'uprated' spring of choice on the Caliboard.de forum is the 4x grey which is what comes fitted to the 1BB Cali but also the T32 4motion model. I would guess the slightly less rated 3x grey is the T32 2WD model.

It could be a useful exercise just to understand this range of rear springs currently fitted to our Calis if people want to post their Cali model/ rear spring colour. Here's an initial stab with known Calis from here along with the German Caliboard forum and ordered in an increasing load… (included the Beach 4wd although we know its unavailable here)


3x Pink T6 Beach 2WD
3x Pink T5.2 Beach 4WD
3x Pink T5.2 SE 2WD (no spare wheel)

4x Pink T5.2 SE 2WD (with spare wheel)
4x Pink T5.2 SE 2WD
4x Pink T5.2 Beach 4WD

2x White T5.2 Beach 4WD (manual)
2x White T5.2 Beach 4WD (DSG)
2x White T6 Ocean 2WD

2x Grey T6 Ocean 4WD (DSG)


As to your more specific concerns re knowing what your van would look like you could see if @Del Boy (on the other T6 suspension thread) would post a pic as he's swapped to the T32 springs with a T6 204 4M, albeit the front as well, but again you really need the paint marks, are they the 3xgrey (2wd?) or 4xgrey (4wd) versions? I think @Gavrobb is about to go this route as well (2xgrey to 4xgrey) so you could pm him as he's got the same 204 4M but again in T6 guise.
See what you have spring wise but you will only improve things swapping to the 4xgrey, there's enough folk on the Caliboard forum that have done it with 4M and rate it. I think there's a high chance it will give you the lift you're after but worst case you can always add in a Weitec spring distance kit to get you exactly where you want to be.

A quick look couldn't find any T5 SE 4M shots but I came across these Beach 4M shots from the Caliboard forum which may be of help.

4Motion Beach, (2x white to 4x grey) before & after...

View attachment 26611 View attachment 26612

Thanks for the info WillSS, I'll get under and see what springs I have in the next few days and report back.

 

[WelshGas]

Haha - you gotta love WG - he has the highest horse in the world

Got me there. Where does the horse come from?

 

[WelshGas]

When you get a chance @Skewif, it'd be handy if you can identify what springs you have in the rear so you have a starting block. Likewise @WelshGas this would be useful to know given your zero sag. You might be able to see through the wheel arch with a rag to wipe the dirt off or failing that you'll be on your back under the rear wheel. You're looking for crude paint markings on the spring, typically 3 x pink or 2 x white, etc.

Before even talking about springs you will appreciate with 65k miles the rear spring top and bottom rubber mounts will not be like new so you are likely losing a little height gain from here. Small monies so definitely renew these if you do swap out the springs.

There's a vast array of springs applicable for the T5/6, identified by their colour markings and shared across the complete T5/6 range.
For the Cali the following list of rear springs are factory installed in this order of increasing weight...
3x white, 3x pink, 4x pink, 1x white, 2x white, and then for 'bad roads' we step up to...
1x grey, 2x grey, 3x grey, 4x grey and so it goes on...
Each spring increment covers a weight range of approx. 50kg, e.g.. 1200-1250kgs.
So seems reasonable to presume that after the factory spring selection all Cali variants come out at the same height irrespective of their differing weights due to model & options. eg. Ocean/Beach/4Motion/no.of seats/DSG or manual/spare wheel or not/ etc.
But the difference in weight between the installed springs could be between 50 & 100kgs.
And then given its likely a different allocation between springs & weight could have occurred when the T6 was introduced its not really a surprise that with all these potential combinations why we have some Cali's appearing lower/higher than others for a similar specification.

It's unlikely we will glean what these actual weight loadings are for each spring type so all we have to work with is this progressive loading scale. I.e. See what you've got and best guess which spring further up the list you want to jump to!

The 'uprated' spring of choice on the Caliboard.de forum is the 4x grey which is what comes fitted to the 1BB Cali but also the T32 4motion model. I would guess the slightly less rated 3x grey is the T32 2WD model.

It could be a useful exercise just to understand this range of rear springs currently fitted to our Calis if people want to post their Cali model/ rear spring colour. Here's an initial stab with known Calis from here along with the German Caliboard forum and ordered in an increasing load… (included the Beach 4wd although we know its unavailable here)


3x Pink T6 Beach 2WD
3x Pink T5.2 Beach 4WD
3x Pink T5.2 SE 2WD (no spare wheel)

4x Pink T5.2 SE 2WD (with spare wheel)
4x Pink T5.2 SE 2WD
4x Pink T5.2 Beach 4WD

2x White T5.2 Beach 4WD (manual)
2x White T5.2 Beach 4WD (DSG)
2x White T6 Ocean 2WD

2x Grey T6 Ocean 4WD (DSG)


As to your more specific concerns re knowing what your van would look like you could see if @Del Boy (on the other T6 suspension thread) would post a pic as he's swapped to the T32 springs with a T6 204 4M, albeit the front as well, but again you really need the paint marks, are they the 3xgrey (2wd?) or 4xgrey (4wd) versions? I think @Gavrobb is about to go this route as well (2xgrey to 4xgrey) so you could pm him as he's got the same 204 4M but again in T6 guise.
See what you have spring wise but you will only improve things swapping to the 4xgrey, there's enough folk on the Caliboard forum that have done it with 4M and rate it. I think there's a high chance it will give you the lift you're after but worst case you can always add in a Weitec spring distance kit to get you exactly where you want to be.

A quick look couldn't find any T5 SE 4M shots but I came across these Beach 4M shots from the Caliboard forum which may be of help.

4Motion Beach, (2x white to 4x grey) before & after...

View attachment 26611 View attachment 26612

4 paint strips, front and rear and probably grey, certainly not pink or white.

Am I allowed to answer, I might Disagree or upset someone.

Whatever I've got it came from the factory like that. 4 Motion, DSG and a Spare wheel AND factory fitted Towbar.

 

[Ian Robinson]

My 2014 SE with 4 digit option code for standard suspension (can't for the life of me remember which of the codes it was but I translated them all on a website) looks to be lower at the back when empty. The gap from wheel to wheel arch is slightly less at back than at front. However when I measure the welded sill line height from the ground I get 30cm rear and 29cm front. So actually slightly off the ground at the back.

Could the sagging at the back look be an illusion and actually our Calis are properly balanced. Builders vans are typically pretty empty and are consequently a bit 'bum high' in comparison.

Maybe a perfectly balanced T5 has less visual clearance on rear wheel arches anyway?

Just my thoughts on the subject - but admit that I have no expertise in van suspension

 

[Stuart]

Could the sagging at the back look be an illusion and actually our Calis are properly balanced. Builders vans are typically pretty empty and are consequently a bit 'bum high' in comparison.

Maybe a perfectly balanced T5 has less visual clearance on rear wheel arches anyway?

Just my thoughts on the subject - but admit that I have no expertise in van suspension

I have considered this explanation. But it's the inconsistency that bothers me. I actually went around my local dealer car park measuring some of the vans to try and figure it out and there is a lot of variation for what should be the same van!

 

[WillSS]

Thanks for the spring details, keep them coming and I'll update the list.
We may just find some logic and hope it's not just 'whatever happens to be in the parts bin' !

4 paint strips, front and rear and probably grey, certainly not pink or white.

Just need the rear colours for now WG (he of big horse lol), I'm suprised your results are so vague when you know we need FACTS here!
They can be different colour marks on the same spring, get your rag and a torch.

My 2014 SE with 4 digit option code for standard suspension (can't for the life of me remember which of the codes it was but I translated them all on a website) looks to be lower at the back when empty. The gap from wheel to wheel arch is slightly less at back than at front. However when I measure the welded sill line height from the ground I get 30cm rear and 29cm front. So actually slightly off the ground at the back.

Could the sagging at the back look be an illusion and actually our Calis are properly balanced. Builders vans are typically pretty empty and are consequently a bit 'bum high' in comparison.

Maybe a perfectly balanced T5 has less visual clearance on rear wheel arches anyway?

Just my thoughts on the subject - but admit that I have no expertise in van suspension

You are spot on in your logic Ian, the front arches do have this bigger gap compared to the rear to allow for the steering so to a point it has been designed this way. The cill and bed/internal table will be level with this 'sagging' appearance.
I think the problem comes about (oddly more so on the 4Motion) when this 'sag' is lower than the 'average' which is then compounded when loaded or towing. This not only looks wrong it significantly compromises the handling.

People make their choice, my driver was to improve the handling without lowering to keep some proper ground clearance. The addition of the 4x grey has certainly done this 'tightening' everything up and markedly improving the handling with way less roll and dive. With the higher rating it can handle the full holiday load and still keep things aesthetically level so I also gain the added bonus of a more 'balanced' looking van (IMO) even if it wasn't originally designed that way.
It's noticeable the sliding door will now self close if not pushed to its fully open position!

 

[Stuart]

It's noticeable the sliding door will now self close if not pushed to its fully open position!

Same here! Out of the factory it would self open, now with the suspension level it self closes

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks for the spring details, keep them coming and I'll update the list.
We may just find some logic and hope it's not just 'whatever happens to be in the parts bin' !



Just need the rear colours for now WG (he of big horse lol), I'm suprised your results are so vague when you know we need FACTS here!
They can be different colour marks on the same spring, get your rag and a torch.

I have as much as I'm going to. They are 3 years old and 60K miles old - Looking between the 2 rear shocks - there are 4 marks and 99% certain they are grey, certainly not white or pink. Anyway, I'm off travelling now in my non-saggy 4Motion.

 

[T6 VCO]

Yes I can highly recommend the solar panels I have and only £120 ish per 100w panel. I use them a lot to charge my e-mtb battery. Very long guarantee and seem good quality. They are not bonded directly to the roof but instead I applied car wrap vinyl on the roof first then fixed the panels down with automotive double sided tape then bonded just edges. Can all be removed without a trace and invisible from normal eye level. Also have a very neat way to get cables inside too. I'm traveling up through France at the moment so will post the panel details and some install pics if wanted when I get back on Friday.

View attachment 26595

Very neat solar install, I would be interested in seeing how you have gone into the back with cable.

 

[WillSS]

I have as much as I'm going to. They are 3 years old and 60K miles old - Looking between the 2 rear shocks - there are 4 marks and 99% certain they are grey, certainly not white or pink. Anyway, I'm off travelling now in my non-saggy 4Motion.

Ok well if you really do have 4x grey (on each spring) then that would be why you have no sag!
It does surprise me as I don't know of any other Cali fitted with these from the factory other than @vwchilie who could & did select the 1BB option having 'rough roads' in Chilie!

I presume your PR suspension code is still 1BA and not 1BB in which case all the more confusing?
Also what's your PR code beginning 0Y... that will be the weight class so good to know.

No doubt as yours has the factory tow bar & 17" wheels (so you get the spare wheel) you up a few spring rates compared to the same 4motion delivered with no tow bar and 18" wheels ?

Behind yours, the next strongest factory springs found yet are on @Gavrobb's van with 2x Grey on his T6 204 DSG 4M. (definitely 2x grey and not 2x dirty white Gav?!) (edit confirmed 2x white)

enjoy your travels WG, not wishing life away but oh to have the freedom with retirement.

 

[Skewif]

Very neat solar install, I would be interested in seeing how you have gone into the back with cable.

Sorry if I should have started another thread for this. I was thinking for weeks about how to get the cabling into the van with no roof drilling and no cables on the outside of the canvas when the top was up. What I ended up doing was running the two solar 4mm cables inside some heat shrink sleeve, bending and tucking it up under the rear of the roof (all held in place with automotive double sided tape) then using a sharp long thin spike poked two holes through the rubber trim that attaches the canvas to the underside of the roof. As its rubber when you pull the cable out it kind of self seals the hole. Then drop the cable with some slack down the inside of the canvas, lift up the small bed end mattress and drill 2 holes horizontally as low as possible as per the pic which then comes through into the void above the cupboard. You can then feed it down out of sight to the battery where the Victron controller is. I do not recommend running the cables through the canvas pocket that has the anti fold out thing inside as I had done. It bends the cable 180 deg each time the roof is opened AND closed so will break in no time if you use the roof a lot. Panels are from Friendly Green Giant eBay shop + £110 each (Currently awaiting new stock) and states on eBay "25 year output guarantee and 5 year warranty included on all our Energy Plus products".
Only had them on a year but they have been through some extreme temperatures and kept me going while off grid for weeks including recharging my ebike.

 

[Skewif]

Thanks for the spring details, keep them coming and I'll update the list.
We may just find some logic and hope it's not just 'whatever happens to be in the parts bin' !



Just need the rear colours for now WG (he of big horse lol), I'm suprised your results are so vague when you know we need FACTS here!
They can be different colour marks on the same spring, get your rag and a torch.



You are spot on in your logic Ian, the front arches do have this bigger gap compared to the rear to allow for the steering so to a point it has been designed this way. The cill and bed/internal table will be level with this 'sagging' appearance.
I think the problem comes about (oddly more so on the 4Motion) when this 'sag' is lower than the 'average' which is then compounded when loaded or towing. This not only looks wrong it significantly compromises the handling.

People make their choice, my driver was to improve the handling without lowering to keep some proper ground clearance. The addition of the 4x grey has certainly done this 'tightening' everything up and markedly improving the handling with way less roll and dive. With the higher rating it can handle the full holiday load and still keep things aesthetically level so I also gain the added bonus of a more 'balanced' looking van (IMO) even if it wasn't originally designed that way.
It's noticeable the sliding door will now self close if not pushed to its fully open position!

Ok mine are 2 x white. How odd that 2 identical vans have different springs. Explains a few things though.

 

[Gavrobb]

Just back online! Hi Wills... i actually think youre right - 2x dirty white. OYD in the build code. Thats 4 out of 8 on the scale right? My build was spec’d by another but it was originally 18” (so no spare originally!) and factory tow bar.

Finally found some 4x grey online to consider although also considering air lift helpers instead - anybody tried this? Seems a bit of a temp fix but like the adjustability idea.

 

[Gavrobb]

Too add - finally caught up with this thread and you've all put in some amazing time and effort. Incredibly informative summary of the choices and the ranges out there. Agree that its incredibly odd WG has 4X fitted and no sag - from my experience here with a mates T5 DSG 4M its same exactly as our T6 sag. I'm keen to get this one sorted soonest - at 6'1" I have the only Transporter I've come across that I cant stand up straight beneath an open tailgate - even had plenty headroom on a 'lowered' Kombi tailgate this week. Planning on taking Wills top advice and going 4X - will report back soon.

Pre photo attached for group info. [/ATTACH] [

 

[WelshGas]

Too add - finally caught up with this thread and you've all put in some amazing time and effort. Incredibly informative summary of the choices and the ranges out there. Agree that its incredibly odd WG has 4X fitted and no sag - from my experience here with a mates T5 DSG 4M its same exactly as our T6 sag. I'm keen to get this one sorted soonest - at 6'1" I have the only Transporter I've come across that I cant stand up straight beneath an open tailgate - even had plenty headroom on a 'lowered' Kombi tailgate this week. Planning on taking Wills top advice and going 4X - will report back soon.

Pre photo attached for group info. View attachment 26891 [/ATTACH] View attachment 26892 [

No problem walking under my tailgate and I’m 6’1” according to latest medical, so haven’t shrunk with age yet. In fact there is a gap of at least 1”. I also don’t have a tailgate bike rack.

 

[Gavrobb]

Confirms really what you’ve said all along WG - no sag on yours. The dream for all the rest of us 4M owners.

Bike rack makes no difference - tailgate on the limit to open is not inhibited by the rack. Maybe I’ve grown.....

 

[Gavrobb]

Should add. Bike on their is titanium lightweight - NOT solid steel ebike with HD additional battery as the sag would imply!!

 

[Skewif]

No problem walking under my tailgate and I’m 6’1” according to latest medical, so haven’t shrunk with age yet. In fact there is a gap of at least 1”. I also don’t have a tailgate bike rack.

Do you go up to amputees and tell them you are going for a lovely walk on TWO legs?

 

[Skewif]

I

No problem walking under my tailgate and I’m 6’1” according to latest medical, so haven’t shrunk with age yet. In fact there is a gap of at least 1”. I also don’t have a tailgate bike rack.

I and other clearly have a problem with the rear suspension. We have established our Cali is beyond perfect. So what exactly do you think is helpful by repeatedly ramming down our throats how superior your van is?