Roof angle

[Ksar-el-kebir]

Is that 17volts going to the battery? Presume you have an actual charge level controller to reduce that.

Battery shouldn't have above 14.4volts as it can cause boiling and drying out of cells reducing capacity or buckling plates.

I’ve never used the electric hookup. I’ve used the auxiliary heater a lot and the frigo but never run the batteries down. Maybe because mine has two leisure batteries.

 

[flying banana]

Nice van. here's mine. what solar installation did you fit? not managed to flatten my battery yet but not spent a long time off grid or not driving . I'm thinking 3 days using fridge and heater and battery will be flagging

 

[Amarillo]

Nice van. here's mine. what solar installation did you fit? not managed to flatten my battery yet but not spent a long time off grid or not driving . I'm thinking 3 days using fridge and heater and battery will be flagging

View attachment 27868

We almost completely flattened the battery the day before yesterday after three days parked in partial shade, but clear skies. After two days of driving - perhaps 8 hours - and minimal light use, the leisure battery is only at 60%

The trickle charge from the engine is clearly insufficient to fully charge the battery, or is not charging the leisure battery at all. Short winter days are not sufficient to fully recharge the battery.

It is time to throw in the towel and buy a hookup cable. Shame - it would have been nice to say that as a family of four we managed on 200w of solar power for a full year. We just cannot do it. In the meantime I'll check the trickle charge from the engine - unfortunately my 12v socket volt meter is broken. I might be able to test using the solar charger as a volt meter.


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[WelshGas]

We almost completely flattened the battery the day before yesterday after three days parked in partial shade, but clear skies. After two days of driving - perhaps 8 hours - and minimal light use, the leisure battery is only at 60%

The trickle charge from the engine is clearly insufficient to fully charge the battery, or is not charging the leisure battery at all. Short winter days are not sufficient to fully recharge the battery.

It is time to throw in the towel and buy a hookup cable. Shame - it would have been nice to say that as a family of four we managed on 200w of solar power for a full year. We just cannot do it. In the meantime I'll check the trickle charge from the engine - unfortunately my 12v socket volt meter is broken. I might be able to test using the solar charger as a volt meter.


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Running the engine doesn’t “ trickle charge “ the Leisure Battery but can put some serious amps into the Leisure Battery. That is why there is an 80 amp fuse in the Split Charge System . If the Leisure Battery was very flat prior to engine start then this fuse could have blown.
It is a Large Brown Fuse, twice the size of the standard fuses, found under the Passenger Seat in a separate fuse carrier.

 

[flying banana]

trouble with a split charge system.it charges the start battery first. then when that's full it switches to charge the leisure battery. so if my theory is correct a short drive betwixt camps won't put anything at all in the leisure battery unless the start battery is tip top. and thenjoy and only when the start battery is fully charged does the relay flick over to start putting juice e into the leisure battery. and I do agree that when this happens it's a good old ampage . not a trickle charge. or do I have it wrong here ?

 

[WelshGas]

trouble with a split charge system.it charges the start battery first. then when that's full it switches to charge the leisure battery. so if my theory is correct a short drive betwixt camps won't put anything at all in the leisure battery unless the start battery is tip top. and thenjoy and only when the start battery is fully charged does the relay flick over to start putting juice e into the leisure battery. and I do agree that when this happens it's a good old ampage . not a trickle charge. or do I have it wrong here ?

No, you are correct, BUT because of the BlueMotion Regenerative Braking System the Engine Battery is only charged to about 80% capacity from the Alternator, so in fact the Alternator charging of the Leisure Battery occurs quicker than you might think.

 

[flying banana]

No, you are correct, BUT because of the BlueMotion Regenerative Braking System the Engine Battery is only charged to about 80% capacity from the Alternator, so in fact the Alternator charging of the Leisure Battery occurs quicker than you might think.

not got blue motion.but I think I was trying to say that a poor or failing start battery or engine battery or whatever you want to call it would affect the charging of the leisure battery by taking all the juice from the alternator before the split charge relay kicked in. meaning it could be a shite start battery giving leisure battery charging issues. I'm thinking too much now....it's confusing me and I need to drink beer

 

[andyinluton]

You sure? Blue motion came in in 2015 model year. Not got stop start?

 

[WelshGas]

not got blue motion.but I think I was trying to say that a poor or failing start battery or engine battery or whatever you want to call it would affect the charging of the leisure battery by taking all the juice from the alternator before the split charge relay kicked in. meaning it could be a shite start battery giving leisure battery charging issues. I'm thinking too much now....it's confusing me and I need to drink beer

As @andyinluton has mentioned I think BlueMotion is now standard as part of the Emissions System whereas before it was an Option.

 

[flying banana]

learning again. I thought it said blue motion on the back if you had it. whatever it is. Yes got stop start

 

[hirsty]

There’s a compass heading shown at top of the MFD of my T6 with factory sat nav. Also on iPhone ‘Compass’ app (swipe for a handy spirit level too).

I wouldn’t beat yourself up about the occasional site hookup Tom, one can live without lights & iPads for a long weekend, but no point “spoiling” the kids experience for a false economy IMO. Stash the cable under the bonnet next to the starter battery.

 

[Volkywagen]

learning again. I thought it said blue motion on the back if you had it. whatever it is. Yes got stop start

They are all BM as standard now I asked this question when mine came without a BM badge. It must cost them too much in plastic to make the badges for the back

 

[Loz]

trouble with a split charge system.it charges the start battery first. then when that's full it switches to charge the leisure battery. so if my theory is correct a short drive betwixt camps won't put anything at all in the leisure battery unless the start battery is tip top. and thenjoy and only when the start battery is fully charged does the relay flick over to start putting juice e into the leisure battery. and I do agree that when this happens it's a good old ampage . not a trickle charge. or do I have it wrong here ?

Not in our case, the system is not that smart.
The leisure batteries are charged as long as the engine is running and the alternator is not in idle mode.

The camper display unit will show the charging current if you turn it on whilst driving if it shows [>20] then it is saying more than 20 amps (max it can measure) is going in. If you don’t see this then its not charging the leisure side at all.

 

[Amarillo]

Running the engine doesn’t “ trickle charge “ the Leisure Battery but can put some serious amps into the Leisure Battery. That is why there is an 80 amp fuse in the Split Charge System . If the Leisure Battery was very flat prior to engine start then this fuse could have blown.
It is a Large Brown Fuse, twice the size of the standard fuses, found under the Passenger Seat in a separate fuse carrier.

Good information WelshGas. I do not have a battery monitor like you do on an Ocean, just the solar charger unit that shows either 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 bars lit.

I'm assuming the following:
Blank screen dead battery
0 bars 0-10% charge
1 bar 10-30%
2 bars 30-50%
3 bars 50-70%
4 bars 70-90%
5 bars 90-100%

On Monday morning the charger was flashing 0 bars for the first time.

We then drove for about 2h30 in bright sunlight and stopped overnight using only internal lights.

Yesterday we drove about 5h30, mostly blasting along the Autostrada, in a mixture of sunlight and cloud.

I am thinking, based on what you have said about the engine putting "serious amps" into the leisure battery, that two winter days of sunlight and cloud has charged the leisure battery from 0-10% charge to 50-70% charge and the 80 amp fuse has blown meaning the leisure battery receives no charge from the engine.

I intend to confirm this after breakfast be noting the leisure battery voltage shown on the solar charger before and after starting the engine. If the voltage before and after is roughly the same the fuse is blown, if the voltage is higher then all is well.

Two questions:
1. Would you expect a 5 hour drive to fully recharge a single leisure battery?
2. Are the assumptions and thoughts I have on this reasonable?

Thanks, Tom


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[Loz]

Your assumptions are spot on imo.

As well as the 80a supply fuse, do you hear the clicking in and out of the split charge relay under the passenger when start/stop kicks in? (Just as a confirmation that the relay is operational)

 

[Jay586]

I wish I understood this. I have a leisure battery but no hookup or solar and nothing to monitor it, so I do wonder if I should be doing more to condition the battery.

Useful thread.

 

[Amarillo]

Engine off

Solar charger
Panels 15V, 0.4A, 50kWh
(One of the two panels is broken or not connected- oops!)
Batt 12.4V, 0.4A, 25C, 2 bars

Engine on, solar charger showing
Panels 16V, 0.2a, 50kWh
Batt 14.4V, 0.2a, 25C, 5 bars

Very useful to learn that we've only 50 kWh showing on the charger. Is this because just 1 of 2 panels are connected, or that the charger is incorrectly configured?

There is certainly some connection active between the engine and leisure battery.

Further investigation when I've removed the roof topper and lowered the roof.



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[Amarillo]

Thinking aloud again...
50kWh doesn't relate to 1 panel, that would be 100 watts, or 200 for 2 panels. I don't know what the 50kWh relates to.

Engine now running for 30 minutes. Charger showing:
Panels
14V, 0.4amps, 50kWh
Battery
12.9V, 0.5a, 25C, 3 bars

Is it possible that somehow the solar charger tricks the relay into believing the leisure battery is full?


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[andyinluton]

Can you disconect the panels & see what charge the alternator puts in then?

 

[Amarillo]

Can you disconect the panels & see what charge the alternator puts in then?

Yes - that was going to be my next step. With two boys running riot and Clare (not unreasonably) demanding help, the pace here is really slow.

Now sitting in Ikea Florence eating meatballs and chips...


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[Loz]

I suspect the 50kw hours is the total amount you have generated over time.

I don't think your vehicle is charging, you should be able to see the fuse if you swivel the passenger seat and slide it away from the dash.

This is how it looks if you are looking in from the passenger door.

 

[Amarillo]

I suspect the 50kw hours is the total amount you have generated over time.

Very possible - I'll keep an eye on the figure, and see if it ticks up.

I don't think your vehicle is charging, you should be able to see the fuse if you swivel the passenger seat and slide it away from the dash.

There seems to be a live connection between alternator and leisure battery as the voltage changes as soon as the engine is started. I don't understand how that could happen if the fuse has blown. Some sort of interference in the way the relay switch works when a solar charger is connected to the battery is my next line of investigation.

However, if it is easy to check if the 80 amp fuse is blown, I can rule that in or out first. Will I know by a simple examination of the fuse if it has blown?

This is how it looks if you are looking in from the passenger door.
View attachment 27900

Thanks.

It is only when problems like this occur that the equipment is fully tested. It is quite possible that we spent the entire period from 5 June to now relying entirely on solar i.e. no engine or hookup charging, quite an endorsement of Roger's 200 watt panel solution.

The sky today is thickly overcast, so only a low charge from the panels today. We now run the external LED's for lighting the awning at 25% power. Children's DVDs are restricted, but Clare and I continue to drain the battery charging our iPhones... Our campsite is at 800m so we kick the boys out to play in the snow.



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[Loz]

Clare and I continue to drain the battery charging our iPhones...

and your 12V kettle

 

[Amarillo]

and your 12V kettle

Clare goes without her thermos of tea.


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[andyinluton]

Use the starter battery for charging phones & the DVD player & run the engine for a bit every day just to keep the starter battery topped up.

If you've got snow outside you shouldn't need the fridge! that just leaves a bit of light & the heater to drain the leisure battery.