Roof angle

[Amarillo]

But that is a different type of usage, a constant 24/7 current draw, and we don't know yet exactly what type of battery @Amarillo has in his vehicle.

I'd forgotten how hard it is to pull off the battery cover. Made doubly difficult by the fridge, buggy and various items of detritus stored behind the seat.


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[bigmac77]

Are you still using the hook up? Have you got a volt meter? Check output from charger could be an issue with the charge rather than the battery. If that is ok check voltage in battery, after 12 hours on hook up then remove all connections from battery leave it to rest for 1 hour. Should be 12.6v.

 

[Jay586]

Googling that battery number brings up a thread from a different forum with a similar issue & a suggestion for a replacement. Varta F21.

 

[hirsty]

There was a thread recently about some vans (I think Beach) having the "starter type" battery fitted, rather than the "leisure type" battery one would hope for - I think @MattBW was involved, will search it now & update ...

My van, of similar vintage, was one of them.

 

[Amarillo]

There was a thread recently about some vans (I think Beach) having the "starter type" battery fitted, rather than the "leisure type" battery one would hope for - I think @MattBW was involved, will search it now & update ...

My van, of similar vintage, was one of them.

It seems that our battery is of the appropriate type.

We have a short (2 hour) drive to San Marino tomorrow, so we might pop into a VW service centre in Florence on the way to have the leisure battery tested.


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[Amarillo]

Googling that battery number brings up a thread from a different forum with a similar issue & a suggestion for a replacement. Varta F21.

Yes - with a price tag of 175 Euros...


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[jts46]

Same price or very similar here in France, in fact one was priced at €225

 

[Jay586]

Hmm, didn't google the price, eek. But looking now £150 at my local place, Tayna. They have a *star buy* alternative for £90, which appears to be the same make as one as in my conversion, Enduroline. I can't really comment on how good it is as it's only had very light use.

One of the reasons I'm following this thread is my battery is only charged off the engine, so I hope you don't mind the posts.

 

[andyinluton]

Engine on, solar charger showing
Panels 16V, 0.2a, 50kWh
Batt 14.4V, 0.2a, 25C, 5 bars

Very useful to learn that we've only 50 kWh showing on the charger. Is this because just 1 of 2 panels are connected, or that the charger is incorrectly configured?

There is certainly some connection active between the engine and leisure battery.

Just checking back through your earlier posts you've said whilst your engine was running you still had 16v coming from the solar panels. Am I missing something but going back to basics electricity will only flow downhill i.e. you always need a higher voltage from the charger than the battery is at.

Your vehicle alternator would not be knocking out more than 14.6v otherwise all your van electrics would be fried but youve already got 16v coming in from the other direction so your alternator will be doing nothing at all for the leisure battery.

The principle will be the same when using the mains charger.

Have you tried disconnecting the leisure battery from the solar circuit & then trying the mains charger?

 

[Amarillo]

Just checking back through your earlier posts you've said whilst your engine was running you still had 16v coming from the solar panels. Am I missing something but going back to basics electricity will only flow downhill i.e. you always need a higher voltage from the charger than the battery is at.

Your vehicle alternator would not be knocking out more than 14.6v otherwise all your van electrics would be fried but youve already got 16v coming in from the other direction so your alternator will be doing nothing at all for the leisure battery.

The principle will be the same when using the mains charger.

Have you tried disconnecting the leisure battery from the solar circuit & then trying the mains charger?

The charger reduces the voltage it receives from the panels, and pumps a lower voltage and more amps into the battery. When the engine is running, or while on hookup, the "batt" display on the solar charger will be showing the charge voltage from the engine or hookup charger to the battery, typically 14-15 volts.

MPPT manual here:
http://www.hqsolarpower.com/v/vspfiles/Manuals/HQST-MPPT 20-30-40.pdf


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[Amarillo]

Have you tried disconnecting the leisure battery from the solar circuit & then trying the mains charger?

I've just tried that. Once again it is heavily overcast today with just a trickle of 15v and 0.5 amps from the panels. I disconnected one panel and that dropped to 0.2 amps. I disconnected both and everything dropped to zero except the battery voltage at 12.4v, showing 3 then 2 bars.

On hookup the battery voltage rose to 14.2 volts and 5 bars on the battery.

I'll leave it on hookup for an hour, without panels, and report back.



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[andyinluton]

I've had a flick through the manual, if i've interpreted it correctly, it shows that the over-volt protection will prevent charging if the output is at 16V as normal maximum charging voltage should be 15V - your post yesterday or the day before showed you had 16v



As others have said I wouldn't trust the number of bars on the display as being an accurate indicator as to voltage, can you get hold of a proper voltmeter?

I've googled the reference number for the battery & can't find if thats a GEL plate or traditional type, do you know? & if so has the controller been set to the correct type as the charging regimes are different?
If its a traditional battery does it need topping up?

Is there any sign of swelling & does the battery get hot when charging?

Don't under estimate the damage a full discharge can do to the battery, I killed 2 brand new leisure batteries in a fortnight by running a mains aircon unit via an inverter in a motorhome, we ran it until the battery was flat a couple of times. Flattening it whilst under a heavy load seems to be the killer, doing it by leaving a light on etc doesn't have anything like the effect. I'm sorry but I'm thinking of your kettle....

 

[Amarillo]

I've had a flick through the manual, if i've interpreted it correctly, it shows that the over-volt protection will prevent charging if the output is at 16V as normal maximum charging voltage should be 15V - your post yesterday or the day before showed you had 16v

15, 16, 17, 18, 19 or even 20 or 21 volts is produced by the panels. This goes into the charger. The voltage from charger to battery is typically 14 volts.

As others have said I wouldn't trust the number of bars on the display as being an accurate indicator as to voltage, can you get hold of a proper voltmeter?

I'm going to get the battery tested at a VW service centre. They are all closed tomorrow, so it will have to wait until Monday or Tuesday.

I've googled the reference number for the battery & can't find if thats a GEL plate or traditional type, do you know? & if so has the controller been set to the correct type as the charging regimes are different?
If its a traditional battery does it need topping up?

This is beyond my knowledge.

Is there any sign of swelling & does the battery get hot when charging?

The battery appears fine.

Don't under estimate the damage a full discharge can do to the battery, I killed 2 brand new leisure batteries in a fortnight by running a mains aircon unit via an inverter in a motorhome, we ran it until the battery was flat a couple of times. Flattening it whilst under a heavy load seems to be the killer, doing it by leaving a light on etc doesn't have anything like the effect. I'm sorry but I'm thinking of your kettle....

Our kettle seems to be a prime suspect.

It is comforting to know that I am not alone in having killed a new leisure battery. Thanks for sharing.



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[Amarillo]

Moral dilemma

I have just visited a VW service centre. They have tested my battery and confirmed it is only holding ~60% charge. They want the van with the battery in situ to follow VW's battery replacement protocol for 8 hours to charge the battery for that period of time. If confirmed that it is not holding charge, the battery will be replaced under warranty. I have told them that they cannot have my van for 8 hours.

Once we are in Sicily and have more time, do we allow VW to have our van for their diagnostic tests, and see what happens, or do we just buy a replacement battery?


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[mccp]

Moral dilemma

I'm not sure that there is much of a moral dilemma. You don't seem to have gone out of your way to use the leisure battery negligently. If the battery is faulty due to excessive discharge I'd expect there to be some circuitry to disconnect the battery when it went below a minimum level, and, although you haven't been connecting to a hook up every few weeks as it says in the handbook, that doesn't seem like it would damage the battery.

I think that question to answer is more along the lines of: is the saving of the purchase price of a new battery worth the hassle of going to another dealer, booking the van in, returning another time with the van and leaving it for tests for a day. Especially if you end up needing to stay overnight in a hotel to do that.

 

[Jay586]

Yep, think the dilemma is note time than taking advantage of VW...

 

[Jay586]

Yep, think the dilemma is note time than taking advantage of VW...

More, poxy autocorrect!

 

[WelshGas]

I'm not sure that there is much of a moral dilemma. You don't seem to have gone out of your way to use the leisure battery negligently. If the battery is faulty due to excessive discharge I'd expect there to be some circuitry to disconnect the battery when it went below a minimum level, and, although you haven't been connecting to a hook up every few weeks as it says in the handbook, that doesn't seem like it would damage the battery.

I think that question to answer is more along the lines of: is the saving of the purchase price of a new battery worth the hassle of going to another dealer, booking the van in, returning another time with the van and leaving it for tests for a day. Especially if you end up needing to stay overnight in a hotel to do that.

There is Battery Protection on the Ocean if the fridge or heater are on but not anything else like lights or 12v sockets. I'm not sure there is anything like that on the Beach.

 

[WelshGas]

Moral dilemma

I have just visited a VW service centre. They have tested my battery and confirmed it is only holding ~60% charge. They want the van with the battery in situ to follow VW's battery replacement protocol for 8 hours to charge the battery for that period of time. If confirmed that it is not holding charge, the battery will be replaced under warranty. I have told them that they cannot have my van for 8 hours.

Once we are in Sicily and have more time, do we allow VW to have our van for their diagnostic tests, and see what happens, or do we just buy a replacement battery?


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If you want a larger amperage battery then you might as well just replace it but this could have warranty implications. If you want a free battery then you will have to follow VW's protocol.

 

[mccp]

There is Battery Protection on the Ocean if the fridge or heater are on but not anything else like lights or 12v sockets. I'm not sure there is anything like that on the Beach.

Do you know how it works? I'm guessing that the control panel might be monitoring the battery and will switch off the fridge/heater if necessary. Would a Beach with a heater have the same control panel?

 

[Loz]

no under voltage protection on a 12V kettle it will suck it dry... as will plug in chargers.

 

[WelshGas]

Do you know how it works? I'm guessing that the control panel might be monitoring the battery and will switch off the fridge/heater if necessary. Would a Beach with a heater have the same control panel?

I'm afraid not. The Beach has no Leisure Battery monitoring .

 

[andyinluton]

As others have said - if the inconvenience of waiting around is worth less than £150 get it booked in. if not just stump up the cash! If you've got room to carry the old one around as well, get that replaced by VW at your convenience.

 

[Jay586]

Plus you get to specify what battery if you pay for it. Would a different battery provide more utility for you?

 

[andyinluton]

I would go for a matching battery so that when you get the VW supplied one as well you could then connect them to double the capacity.