Speed limit?

[c4s2rs6]

Some of this info was in another thread but through I would start as a new topic.

What is the speed limit of a GC600 in the Uk? I thought that all GCs under 3.5t had regular speed limits e.g 70 on dual carriageway way but that seems to be a European thing.

The speed limit is restricted when the unladen vehicle weight is over 3.05t (without fuel or passengers on DVLA website). The unladen weight of GC no options is 3.08t but that includes 90% fuel, 20l of water and driver.

I had assumed that the speed limit would be same as a car e.g 70 on dual carriage way but now I’m not sure as down to the definition of the unladen vehicle weight...

What are peoples views?

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[andyinluton]

No water & no fuel, I think you would possibly scrape under the 3.05 However start adding options ie roof mounted Airconditioning etc & you will be back over.

 

[Jester]

No water & no fuel, I think you would possibly scrape under the 3.05 However start adding options ie roof mounted Airconditioning etc & you will be back over.

Morning all think even if you add the awning you would be over, think the German configurator includes a weight calculator.

 

[c4s2rs6]

Thanks for the tip. The Configurator says it’s around 3140kg inc options including awning for me. Assuming the vehicle was 3140kg with options inc be standard 90% full of 75l fuel tank and inc 20l of water and driver as per be notes on the brochure it could be just around 3.05t as per the unladen weight definition, especially if this ignores the drivers weight. Are all uk drivers assuming a 50/60/70 mph limit vs standard 60/60/70 for single carriageway, dual and motorway?

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[Sad]

For single/dual/m-way:
If <3.05 unladen it'd be 60/70/70
If >3.05 unladen it'd be 50/60/70.
[https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits]

If you've a quoted unladen weight >3.05 (no matter how much is fuel/driver or otherwise) I'm sure the courts would delight in being a stickler. What does the V5C say in terms of unladen weight?

 

[andyinluton]

The problem is that VWs definition of unladen weight does not match that of the DVLA
VW include fuel & water, DVLA do not.

 

[c4s2rs6]

Thanks guys. Yes I’ll see what the V5 days and go off that but not for vehicle yet. Would be straightforward if DVLA and VW used the same unladen weight definition


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[WelshGas]

Thanks guys. Yes I’ll see what the V5 days and go off that but not for vehicle yet. Would be straightforward if DVLA and VW used the same unladen weight definition


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Could be worthwhile going to a Public Weigh Bridge with minimum fuel on board and get a Weight Certificate.

 

[WelshGas]

Could be worthwhile going to a Public Weigh Bridge with minimum fuel on board and get a Weight Certificate.

I'm not sure what you are "Disagreement" with the above statement is @Sad . You would get an Unladen Weight to the DVLA definition, and if lower than VWs could get the vehicle re-plated and V5c changed if below the threshold weight for Car speed limits.

 

[andyinluton]

I'm not sure what you are "Disagreement" with the above statement is @Sad . You would get an Unladen Weight to the DVLA definition, and if lower than VWs could get the vehicle re-plated and V5c changed if below the threshold weight for Car speed limits.

Don't need to get anything re-plated there isn't a plate to change, just get it weighed with the minimum amount of fuel in it & make sure water tanks are empty etc. If its under 3.05tnne you know you are legal for higher limits. Keep the weigh bridge tickets in a safe place.
As far as I know there is nowhere on the vin plate or the V5 that states the unladen weight. The closest is the MIRO - mass in running order, which for a motor home since 2012 includes gas bottles(if used) some water etc

 

[Simon1]

I think speed cameras can determine what category your vehicle is, ages ago I got a warning ticket after being flashed going 70mph on a dual carriageway in a 3.5T panel van.

 

[andyinluton]

J

I think speed cameras can determine what category your vehicle is, ages ago I got a warning ticket after being flashed going 70mph on a dual carriageway in a 3.5T panel van.

The camera doesn't know what category you fit in, there are weight sensors though, that know you are bigger than a car so it takes a photo just in case. The processing office knows what your vehicle is from your registration document.

Note that the limits are different between a 3.5tnne van & a 3.5tnne motor caravan.

We used to have a big white motorhome Roller Team 700 - that used to set all the dual cariagway cameras flashing at 70mph but I never got a ticket.

 

[Sad]

I'm not sure what you are "Disagreement" with the above statement is @Sad . You would get an Unladen Weight to the DVLA definition, and if lower than VWs could get the vehicle re-plated and V5c changed if below the threshold weight for Car speed limits.

It's good fun disagreeing with you from time to time WG, gotta keep you on your toes!!

I drove C+E when it was 40mph on single carriageways (also paid by the hour), it's nice to slow down from time to time. With 3.5tonne MAM you're hardly going to be driving it like a sports car! For me, 50 would be plenty... Well, that and I'd actually get a 680...

 

[B J G]

J


The camera doesn't know what category you fit in, there are weight sensors though, that know you are bigger than a car so it takes a photo just in case. The processing office knows what your vehicle is from your registration document.

Note that the limits are different between a 3.5tnne van & a 3.5tnne motor caravan.

We used to have a big white motorhome Roller Team 700 - that used to set all the dual cariagway cameras flashing at 70mph but I never got a ticket.

Think that you are out of date on that with the new cameras being online to the DVLA and can reference the V5 Registration information instantly as do the Police NPR cameras. The Police are starting to be more active with regards to van speed monitoring.

 

[andyinluton]

Think that you are out of date on that with the new cameras being online to the DVLA and can reference the V5 Registration information instantly as do the Police NPR cameras. The Police are starting to be more active with regards to van speed monitoring.

It can't check with DVLA before its taken the picture....
It takes a picture based on the weight of the vehicle - Ie its more than 3 tonnes doing 70 on a dual carriageway it will flash on the assumption that you are speeding & then gets chucked out at the processing stage. Thats why the cameras don't flash continually at cars doing 70mph but heavier vehicles do set them off at the same speed.

 

[B J G]

It can't check with DVLA before its taken the picture....
It takes a picture based on the weight of the vehicle - Ie its more than 3 tonnes doing 70 on a dual carriageway it will flash on the assumption that you are speeding & then gets chucked out at the processing stage. Thats why the cameras don't flash continually at cars doing 70mph but heavier vehicles do set them off at the same speed.

Bit difficult for HGV'S with a 56mph limiter.

 

[Mickyb123]

dual carriageway speed limit I believe is actually 70mph not 60mph.
That is dual carriageway however not dual lane road, they are different !
the weight of a vehicle is unladen, so drivers weight is irrelevant

 

[B J G]

dual carriageway speed limit I believe is actually 70mph not 60mph.
That is dual carriageway however not dual lane road, they are different !
the weight of a vehicle is unladen, so drivers weight is irrelevant

Yes as I recall HGV Drivers being caught out by that on the A38 section off the M6 due to no actual barrier or kerbing dividing the sides.

 

[Velma's Dad]

It can't check with DVLA before its taken the picture....
It takes a picture based on the weight of the vehicle - Ie its more than 3 tonnes doing 70 on a dual carriageway it will flash on the assumption that you are speeding & then gets chucked out at the processing stage. Thats why the cameras don't flash continually at cars doing 70mph but heavier vehicles do set them off at the same speed.

On your last point, I don't the camera systems actually discriminate on the basis of weight, but rather by size or actually height, to be most specific. As far as I know the small number of in-road "weight in motion" (WIM) set-ups on the motorway network are there to target large HGVs to deter overloading, not speed.

But anyway... if you drive past a camera in say a California that had been modified to have a smurf top, doing 65, the camera might trigger due to the height. But the DVLA record would then show the vehicle as a "motor caravan, <3.05t" so no NIP would be issued because you can do 70 in that.

Same with an improbably heightened Beach or Marco Polo, except the DVLA record would say "MPV" but you're still fine as again you can do 70 in an MPV.

If you did in in your VW Transporter conversion with a high top, the camera would trigger, the DVLA would flag up "light goods vehicle" and the NIP would be issued. However I believe you may have a successful defence against conviction if you were able to show in court that your vehicle had been turned into a motor caravan - even if not recorded by DVLA as such.

If you were in a Grand Cali, the DVLA check would say "motor caravan, >3.05t" and you'd certainly be nicked because you are limited to 60 in that.

Don't rely on any of the above, DYOR.

 

[WelshGas]

We'll soon find out when someone posts on the Forum complaining they got a ticket.

 

[andyinluton]

"Velma's Dad said:
On your last point, I don't the camera systems actually discriminate on the basis of weight, but rather by size or actually height, to be most specific. - depends on the type of camera

But anyway... if you drive past a camera in say a California that had been modified to have a smurf top, doing 65, the camera might trigger due to the height. But the DVLA record would then show the vehicle as a "motor caravan, <3.05t" so no NIP would be issued because you can do 70 in that. - what DVLA record? the V5 for mine for example gives mass in service as 2407kg, it doesn't give the unladen weight anywhere.



If you were in a Grand Cali, the DVLA check would say "motor caravan, >3.05t" and you'd certainly be nicked because you are limited to 60 in that. Again it wouldn't show >3.05t it would show mass in service, a figure that includes allowance for water carried etc,
The 3.08tnne unladen weight shown in the VW brochure uses VWs definition of unladen which is different to DVLAs definition. Using the DVLA definition a GC with no options is slightly under 3.05tnne

Hence get it on a weigh bridge empty & you will know for definite whether you are under 3.05tnne empty

 

[WelshGas]

Smart speed camera warning to van drivers | Business Vans

Smart speed camera warning: latest hi-tech camera systems know your specific vehicle's speed limits - and can catch you speeding

businessvans.co.uk

And beware, Speed limits for vehicles over 3.05 tons are lower in Scotland.

 

[B J G]

If I had a GC I'd check what is on the V5 section G Mass in service figure and if over the 3.05T line then stick to that speed limit category.

Also remember that European speed limits aren't the same as UK ones and need checking before travel..

 

[c4s2rs6]

Thanks for all the help guys. I personally find it surprising that there are so many different views. I had presumed V5 would state unladen weight in line with UK regs limiting speed limits and could go from there. If it’s mass in service it will be well above 3.05t on the V5 and likely speeding fines will turn up regardless unless the vehicle Reg also links to a database of unladen weights. I’ll ask the dealer on pickup next week. I would have thought a simple question like how fast can I legally drive in the UK was straightforward!


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[B J G]

Thanks for all the help guys. I personally find it surprising that there are so many different views. I had presumed V5 would state unladen weight in line with UK regs limiting speed limits and could go from there. If it’s mass in service it will be well above 3.05t on the V5 and likely speeding fines will turn up regardless unless the vehicle Reg also links to a database of unladen weights. I’ll ask the dealer on pickup next week. I would have thought a simple question like how fast can I legally drive in the UK was straightforward!


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Nothing simple about speed limits on vans. DIY camper conversions used to be able to get DVLA to change that to Motor Caravan to get unrestricted speed but that was stopped unless a high top with external logos. T Range Cali got changed to PSV but has changed yet again to be inline with Motorhomes. Probably change again when we think we know what's going on.