T5.1 SE 180hp DSG

[montyburns1982]

I'm looking to buy my first Cali, and the budget won't stretch to a T6, so I'm looking at 2014/2015 T5.1 SEs. I currently drive a 2017 300hp F Pace S so I'm looking at the 180hp BiTDI Calis with a view to getting a Pendle remap to 200+ at a later date. I also want a DSG if possible I don't want to go back to manuals. I'm aware it won't handle like the F Pace but I don't want a slug.

Anyway, I've read pages of stuff about the publicised problems with the 180 Engine. I've got my eye on this particular cali and I'm going to look this weekend:

https://www.ncvsales.co.uk/vehicle/volkswagen-california-se-tdi-bluemotion-ocean-camper-dsg-auto-180-in-newark-nottingham-3aa3838f-b88b-4f7e-85d3-bceb0491e6d4

Without getting into an argument about the 180 engine generally, what kind of things should I do pre-purchase to limit my risk.

I was thinking:

1. Independent mech and elec inspection by an automotive engineer, possibly with a habitation check of camper bits?
2. Check of all paperwork, service records etc with the van checking the cambelt and water pump has been done and how well the vehicle has been serviced/looked after generally
3. Physical check of the van to see what EGR Cooler is fitted
4. Get a sample of oil analysed by someone like Millers to check for Aluminium Oxide

I'm a mechnical engineer by trade so fairly handy with stuff in terms of an inspection, but I've never owned a camper before and I was thinking a PPI would be a useful bit of added security.

Any thoughts or comments welcome.

cheers

 

[Steve1]

I'm looking to buy my first Cali, and the budget won't stretch to a T6, so I'm looking at 2014/2015 T5.1 SEs. I currently drive a 2017 300hp F Pace S so I'm looking at the 180hp BiTDI Calis with a view to getting a Pendle remap to 200+ at a later date. I also want a DSG if possible I don't want to go back to manuals. I'm aware it won't handle like the F Pace but I don't want a slug.

Anyway, I've read pages of stuff about the publicised problems with the 180 Engine. I've got my eye on this particular cali and I'm going to look this weekend:

https://www.ncvsales.co.uk/vehicle/volkswagen-california-se-tdi-bluemotion-ocean-camper-dsg-auto-180-in-newark-nottingham-3aa3838f-b88b-4f7e-85d3-bceb0491e6d4

Without getting into an argument about the 180 engine generally, what kind of things should I do pre-purchase to limit my risk.

I was thinking:

1. Independent mech and elec inspection by an automotive engineer, possibly with a habitation check of camper bits?
2. Check of all paperwork, service records etc with the van checking the cambelt and water pump has been done and how well the vehicle has been serviced/looked after generally
3. Physical check of the van to see what EGR Cooler is fitted
4. Get a sample of oil analysed by someone like Millers to check for Aluminium Oxide

I'm a mechnical engineer by trade so fairly handy with stuff in terms of an inspection, but I've never owned a camper before and I was thinking a PPI would be a useful bit of added security.

Any thoughts or comments welcome.

cheers

Hi,

I have a T5.1 2014 180 (manual), I bought it with knowledge of the EGR thing you mentioned but so far my one is fine. My personal advice would be to first off treat it like any other second hand high value car purchase.
So a good check over or get someone professional to do it for you as you said. Test drive to check it doesn't drive badly or make funny noises. Check it goes well and stops well. No smoke etc. etc. Check for damage to body and underside for a bad crash that's been covered up. Make sure you get the best warranty you can without spending a stupid amount. Make sure the seller seems genuine and reputable.
I personally wouldn't bother with oil tests or looking for egr revision numbers, none of this will prove it's a good one (or bad). Most people buying cars don't do that sort of testing and the results are hard to interpret in a meaningful way. I'm surprised that sellers even entertain taking an oil sample. If they are trying to hide faults though, they could have just changed the oil beforehand or EGR so it doesn't prove much either way.
Then the second thing I would do because it's a camper is test everything in the camper side. It probably won't be covered by a warranty. Check roof lifts well and canvas is all good, fridge, heater, cupboards aren't broken. Battery voltage isn't terribly low because that can damage the batteries, lots are stored that way at dealers, water tap works, hookup wire charges batteries.

 

[WelshGas]

I'm looking to buy my first Cali, and the budget won't stretch to a T6, so I'm looking at 2014/2015 T5.1 SEs. I currently drive a 2017 300hp F Pace S so I'm looking at the 180hp BiTDI Calis with a view to getting a Pendle remap to 200+ at a later date. I also want a DSG if possible I don't want to go back to manuals. I'm aware it won't handle like the F Pace but I don't want a slug.

Anyway, I've read pages of stuff about the publicised problems with the 180 Engine. I've got my eye on this particular cali and I'm going to look this weekend:

https://www.ncvsales.co.uk/vehicle/volkswagen-california-se-tdi-bluemotion-ocean-camper-dsg-auto-180-in-newark-nottingham-3aa3838f-b88b-4f7e-85d3-bceb0491e6d4

Without getting into an argument about the 180 engine generally, what kind of things should I do pre-purchase to limit my risk.

I was thinking:

1. Independent mech and elec inspection by an automotive engineer, possibly with a habitation check of camper bits?
2. Check of all paperwork, service records etc with the van checking the cambelt and water pump has been done and how well the vehicle has been serviced/looked after generally
3. Physical check of the van to see what EGR Cooler is fitted
4. Get a sample of oil analysed by someone like Millers to check for Aluminium Oxide

I'm a mechnical engineer by trade so fairly handy with stuff in terms of an inspection, but I've never owned a camper before and I was thinking a PPI would be a useful bit of added security.

Any thoughts or comments welcome.

cheers

As above. You have done Due Diligence. You are aware of possible problems.
As far as servicing the DSG should have had oil changes at 2 yrs/40,000 miles or thereabouts.
Brake pads and discs. I would have thought pads and possible discs would have been renewed at least once.
Leisure and or engine battery, depending how they have been treated could need replacing especially if you plan on off grid camping.
Brake fluid should have been changed at least once.
It is easy to check the function of the hydraulic roof, remember hatch and side door open when using it.
Testing function of fridge/ built in charger , fresh water and waste water system together with gas system may be a little more difficult but if covered by the warranty offered can be tested at home.
There is a new vehicle checklist that can be downloaded from the Resource section.

As you may notice from my Signature I have a 2014 180 4Motion, now on 122,000 miles and on original EGR, well almost original as it was changed 2 weeks post registration due to an electrical fault. 0mls oil use between services.

 

[BerndRos]

I purchased my 180BHP, new in 2010. In 2015, and with only a few hundred miles warning it went from using zero oil to using a litre every few hundred miles. Result, new engine for about 8K, luckily after much ado, VW paid 70% and I paid the other 30%. Don’t think VW offer any assistance now.

Then late last year the DSG bit the dust, without any warning and had only had an oil change shortly before. Result, new Mechatronic Box, Clutch pack, Planet Gears, etc. £5730.

Engine went at about 45K miles & DSG at 88K miles. Cali had always been serviced on time and by a main dealer.

Of the 30/40 cars I have owned this is by far the worst of them, reliability wise.

Plan to keep it, as hoping I now have a chance of reliability, but who knows, fingers crossed. This post is the stark reality of costs to expect if these issues occur.

 

[Mowbotman]

Mine went in last week for DSG oil change, and also did a update on the EGR software apparently ?

 

[Vagophile]

Identify last owner from log book if possible and contact?
Leisure and starter battery usually have the date of manufacture stamped on a terminal post, batteries likely to be originals.
Gas pipe connector from cylinder to cooker can be time expired, renewal date is taped to pipe. Bargaining point, self fix not expensive.

 

[willwander]

180hp BiTDI?,
oh here we go lol

 

[WelshGas]

180hp BiTDI?,
oh here we go lol

No. The OP has done his homework.

 

[willwander]

No. The OP has done his homework.

Good. He may want to add a compression check to his list.

 

[2into1]

The best most practical thing the buyer can do is to be very clear about what warranty is being offered and exactly what is covered with regards to the oil consumption / death issue.
If it is fine and doesn't consume any oil in the first 5k miles, then that is about as much as any seller can warrant. The OP understands the risks but wants a 180, so as long as it can be rejected or repaired (engine replaced) over a 'several thousand mile' period, then that's the best anyone in those circumstances will get.
I suspect the seller won't want to offer such an open ended deal, unless they have bought it in fully aware of the problem.
As suggested above, a nice row of even compression figures is another good sign, and such a test is perhaps more likely to be accepted by the seller.
There is a very real risk that the Cali has been sold into the trade BECAUSE it is beginning to fail. Buying private is often more risky, but at least you can look the seller in the eye and ask. That's lost through a trade deal.

 

[willwander]

BTW I thought the 150's were better to remap than the 180's? could be wrong.
Either way if you remap you'll probably need a DSG remap too.

 

[montyburns1982]

So whats the consensus guys, should I be asking for a compression test and oil sampling, or just a compression test?

At the end of the day, I know its a risk, but I cant afford the 200hp engine on the later models, and I don't want a low powered engine, I had a 2013 VW CC with a 140hp engine and it wasn't particularly quick, and that was of course lighter than a Cali!

Like I said, I'm not expecting it to rival the F Pace, but as I'm going to use it as a daily drive, I don't want a snail.

A look on the Pendle website suggests I can squeeze 205hp out of a 180 engine, but only 180 out of a 140. I guess I might need a DSG remap I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, as I've never driven a DSG equipped VW it will be a learning curve (I really like the Jag auto box)

I'd like 4Motion too, but there doesn't seem to be many about!

 

[Taglish1]

I've had a T5.1 180 since new from 2015.
I would not bother with a re-map; at the end of the day its a camper van and its surprisingly quick off the mark anyhow - try it in Sport mode and it will outrun any other van.
Buy a control panel and tap as these will fail, otherwise had no issues.

 

[montyburns1982]

I've had a T5.1 180 since new from 2015.
I would not bother with a re-map; at the end of the day its a camper van and its surprisingly quick off the mark anyhow - try it in Sport mode and it will outrun any other van.
Buy a control panel and tap as these will fail, otherwise had no issues.

I plan to drive it for a bit first before splashing out on a remap. As you say, it's a heavy van not a sport car, but I do like having a bit of power in reserve for overtaking and the like.

Hopefully when I test drive one this weekend some of my questions will be answered!

I expect things to fall off, but as long as the main vehicle is sound, I'm fairly handy and can fix minor issues.

 

[Corradobrit]

Oil analysis is only informative at the end of oil change cycle. Personally I think its a worthwhile and minimal cost for a good insight into the health of an engine, especially one with higher mileage. Compression tests are dead easy, quick and non-invasive, so why not.

 

[2into1]

So whats the consensus guys, should I be asking for a compression test and oil sampling, or just a compression test?

The oil test is nulled if it has been very recently serviced. If you can calculate the 'age' of the oil from the service records, then it's worth the small cash cost assuming the seller will hold the van for you whilst it gets analysed.
The compression is the compression no matter when the oil was changed and can be done by any reasonable mechanic, and the results seen instantly.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

So whats the consensus guys, should I be asking for a compression test and oil sampling, or just a compression test?

At the end of the day, I know its a risk, but I cant afford the 200hp engine on the later models, and I don't want a low powered engine, I had a 2013 VW CC with a 140hp engine and it wasn't particularly quick, and that was of course lighter than a Cali!

Like I said, I'm not expecting it to rival the F Pace, but as I'm going to use it as a daily drive, I don't want a snail.

A look on the Pendle website suggests I can squeeze 205hp out of a 180 engine, but only 180 out of a 140. I guess I might need a DSG remap I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, as I've never driven a DSG equipped VW it will be a learning curve (I really like the Jag auto box)

I'd like 4Motion too, but there doesn't seem to be many about!

I had a remap on my 140se 3 years ago mainly for the torque and judging from the print out it is dramatically improved. Much less changing down on hills and a slight improvement on MPG on a run.
BHP now up to 175 against 139 before remap.

 

[2into1]

I think the next question is what is a good compression number?! Truth is I don't know, although failed engines seem to have one cylinder much lower than the other. I don't know if you can search the Facebook group for key words, but that would be the best source of comparison.

Edit - update, yes you can search the Facebook group for 'compression test'. A very quick initial glance sees highs of 30 bar, lows of 15 bar. I found one apparently vw statement that new they are between 25-31, that the wear limit is 19,and their max variation between cylinders is 5 bar..... But this is the same vw that say that oil consumption of 1L per 1001km is OK!!

 

[andyinluton]

At the end of the day, if you believe all the forums, even a cali 180 engine is less likely to explode than any variant fitted to a F-Pace.

Drive it for a bit before you even think about a remap, lack of acceleration is not what dictates the overall speed on a journey, in a Cali its not the cornering ability that limits your speed, more the ability of your passengers to remain in place on the rear bench & how well you've packed your crockery in the cupboards.

 

[montyburns1982]

Darksides website says compression should be 362 to 450psi, minimum 275 psi, max difference between cylinders 75psi.

 

[montyburns1982]

At the end of the day, if you believe all the forums, even a cali 180 engine is less likely to explode than any variant fitted to a F-Pace.

Drive it for a bit before you even think about a remap, lack of acceleration is not what dictates the overall speed on a journey, in a Cali its not the cornering ability that limits your speed, more the ability of your passengers to remain in place on the rear bench & how well you've packed your crockery in the cupboards.

There’s a lot of truth in what you say. Had I read the f pace forum before I bought mine I would have been worried sick.

So far it’s been 3 years of trouble free running. Probably the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned.

 

[Corradobrit]

So far it’s been 3 years of trouble free running. Probably the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned.

Now you've jinxed it

 

[montyburns1982]

Now you've jinxed it

Haha well it’s the other jag that’s got the issue at the moment (knackered alternator)!

 

[Steve1]

Oil analysis is only informative at the end of oil change cycle. Personally I think its a worthwhile and minimal cost for a good insight into the health of an engine, especially one with higher mileage. Compression tests are dead easy, quick and non-invasive, so why not.

Is this right on a diesel, I thought it was pretty difficult to remove the injectors or glow plugs without risk of breaking them, but I haven't tried on a newer diesel, are they easy ?

 

[Corradobrit]

Is this right on a diesel, I thought it was pretty difficult to remove the injectors or glow plugs without risk of breaking them, but I haven't tried on a newer diesel, are they easy ?

The principle is the same. With the right tools and experience it shouldn't be any more difficult.