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VW California T5 ONLY Roof Corrosion - General Discussion

Where do you have the Roof Corrosion on your VW California?

  • Front panel only

    Votes: 196 37.3%
  • Main elevating roof only

    Votes: 80 15.2%
  • Both Front panel and main roof

    Votes: 250 47.5%

  • Total voters
    526
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Who was the source of the information?

I understood that separating the two metal types prevents the corrosive effect?


Time will tell....
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

My van was registered on February 2012, and it has the blistering paint problem. From what I can see the panel above the windscreen is already spaced up with a rubber gasket separating it from the original body. Does anyone know the true cause of this problem?
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

I can't help thinking that the 26% of us who have had our roof repair done "the old way" i.e. stripped and resprayed, have inadvertently come off the better. We have a good looking repair which will probably fail in a year or two, just when the backlog for the new repair has subsided. I can't believe VW won't allow our Calis to be re-repaired. In the meantime my heart goes out to those struggling with VW to get it sorted.

Andy
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

[/quote]

Not so i'm afraid, from what i've been told - Though we are all apparently getting that rubber gasket as part of our retro-fit of a new front panel.

The final fix was only put into production a few build weeks ago which I guess is part of the hold up on the repairs.[/quote]

Do you have any info. on the actual build date this was commenced?
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Regrettably, for all concerned (or likely to be affected), so much speculation...

So to add to this (again) -
Are we perhaps looking at 2 issues here?
1) Corrosion as a result of unlike metals of the front roof portion (ali) and vehicle body (steel).
2) Poorly adhered or inappropriate paint type applied to all the aluminium roof parts.

I rather fancy the issue is with 2) and that the unlike metals just exacerbated the same problem. Reason is that when I collected my Cali I saw a 2012 being carted away to a body shop with corrosion patches along the main roof edge and commented to the dealer I was buying from. He believed the paint type had changed ("ecological improvement"), was inadequate, and being independent was probably less biased but maybe less well informed also. I was told by a local VW dealer that is was all down to the unlike metals and that the gasket fixed it. I always rather doubted that based on what I had seen on the 2012.
That is of course just my own experience.
VW response to this issue, as always is laudable. They must like servicing expensive warranty claims. Did they fix it a few weeks ago? Can we be sure?
One thing, I think a definitive statement about why it happens and when it may happen with a clear declaration of support for this issue is long overdue. These things happen but to draw it out this long affecting so many owners is obviously a major mistake. Eventually I guess we will find out but perhaps some strength in numbers to get something definitive from them even it involves legal assistance might be worth considering.
I am not wasting my life worrying about this (in spite of this post!) but it would be good for many to see some sort of meaningful statement from VW along with their commitment to support owners now and in the future.
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

it would also be useful if they gave a VIN no. from which the fix commenced.
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

what happens if you don't have the blistering? Surely this should be a recall if the thing is built incorrectly so as to cause this .. mine displays no blistering at the moment (12 reg) but presumably it will, and probably when the warranty is out!
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Our blistered panel was photographed today and we were advised not to expect a decision for 4 weeks. The paintwork warranty was clarified. It is for 3 years only. However, VW has extended this to 6 years max. for this particular issue, given that the fault is theirs. The 12 year warranty only covers corrosion from the inside out. So if you have a van over 5 years old and were biding your time until after the summer, I suggest you get to a dealer now and get the blisters photographed and registered.
Finally a reply to Sean of Huddersfield regarding a local dealer. VW Van Centre just off the M62 Chain Bar roundabout is your local dealer and the staff are up to date with this issue and are very helpful.
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

johnv said:
what happens if you don't have the blistering? Surely this should be a recall if the thing is built incorrectly so as to cause this .. mine displays no blistering at the moment (12 reg) but presumably it will, and probably when the warranty is out!

Recals only done for safety related things.


VW will only correct this problem when it occurs. It is covered by 12 year paint warranty.


Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

ron b said:
Our blistered panel was photographed today and we were advised not to expect a decision for 4 weeks. The paintwork warranty was clarified. It is for 3 years only. However, VW has extended this to 6 years max. for this particular issue, given that the fault is theirs. The 12 year warranty only covers corrosion from the inside out. So if you have a van over 5 years old and were biding your time until after the summer, I suggest you get to a dealer now and get the blisters photographed and registered.
Finally a reply to Sean of Huddersfield regarding a local dealer. VW Van Centre just off the M62 Chain Bar roundabout is your local dealer and the staff are up to date with this issue and are very helpful.

If you read whole thread you will see a letter from vw comercial vehicles stating that this issue is covered by 12 year waranty as it IS corosion from inside.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk
 
Firstly a Big thanks to SusiBus who presented the case on behalf of the California Club to get VW UK to implement the repair for roof corrosion that had been introduced in Germany.

The original thread is now 45 pages long. There is a lot of info on there but people are not reading through the thread, can't blame folk really. It has been decided to lock that post & condense all the relevant info to this new thread. So here goes....

This issue affects Californias of any age 2006 & up to March 2013. Post March 2013 build Californias appear to have been built with the fix in place.
Any California with the fault should be taken to your local dealer and ask them to take the relevant photos and submit a claim with VW for you.
At present only Californias with blistering paintwork will be repaired. Any that have had this problem repaired in the past will not be redone.


There are four VW approved body repair shops that will receive training to effect the repair. They will all repair two Californias at a time.These are...

Heritage- Bristol
Benfield- Newcastle
AB Crush- Dover
Shorada- Cannock

Your Van centre & the repair centre allocated to do the work on your California will inform you of dates in due course. Repairs will happen in order that the issue was reported to VW.
A loan California will be delivered to you, on a transporter, & your California taken away for repair. The repairs are estimated to take two weeks. Once repaired your California will be returned to you & loan collected, once again on a transporter. Your California will not incur addition mileage.
Loan Californias will not be allowed to go abroad, if your allocated repair date coincides with a trip abroad you will need to agree an alternate date.

I was told by VW Customer Services on 22/04/14 that all four repair centres have completed training. One has started doing repairs & the other three are awaiting parts delivery before they start.
 
Correspondence to & from VW Commercials

Origional letter sent by SusiBus to Mr Smith Director VW Commercial Vehicles....

“Dear Sir

I am writing to you on behalf of myself and many other dissatisfied California owners whose vehicles are suffering from aluminium roof corrosion – a manufacturing defect which has been present since at least 2006 but not addressed until March 2013.
On 10th/11th/12th May the California Owners Club, in conjunction with VW Van Centre SMG (Cowfold), arranged an event (COTF) and over 110 California T4s and T5s attended. VW Publicity Manager, John Rawlings, was also present. At this event we inspected the joint between the front aluminium box section, adjacent to the side rails, of 89 of the T5s present.
55 of the 89 vehicles had roof corrosion (62%). One of the affected vehicles was only six weeks old.
In our many conversations with VW Customer Care, the inference has always been that this is not a major fault – which it clearly is - both here in the UK and the rest of Europe. When we asked Anthony Ryder how many owners had submitted warranty claims, he said he would need registration numbers to trace these vehicles. To that end, attached is a list of the affected vehicles at COTF. This list includes vehicles repaired, claims submitted, owners yet to submit claims, and vehicles whose owners may be unaware of corrosion on their vehicle.
Many owners are not satisfied with VW’s warranty response to the aluminium roof corrosion these vehicles are suffering. To merely repaint the external paintwork is a “sticking plaster” approach to a problem which is emulating from within the internal aluminium roof box section. It will not eradicate the cause of the problem which is electrochemical corrosion. Yes, it will temporarily be a cure (probably until after the 3 year paint warranty has expired), but not stop the risk of it reoccurring.

These vehicles have not been manufactured with full protection against rust (in this case, corrosion) attacking the internal cavities as stated in VW’s New Vehicle Warranty Guide August 2011 (page 6). “All Volkswagen’s commercial vehicles are manufactured with full protection against rust attacking the internal cavities”. THIS IS A MANUFACTURING DEFECT and as such should be covered by the 12 year Body Protection warranty.
VW are fully aware of their responsibility to ensure this type of corrosion does not take place. In VW’s Body Builder Guidelines 2011, under Section 2 Technical Data for Planning, clause 2.3.2.11 Planning Measures, it states:
“Corrosion protection should be taken into account in the planning and design in the form of a suitable material selection and component design.
Information: If two different metallic materials are connected together by an electrolyte (eg moisture from the air) then this will give rise to a galvanic connection. The result will be electrochemical corrosion, and the less noble metal will suffer damage. The electrochemical corrosion will be all the greater the further apart the metals in question are in the electrochemical series. Therefore, the components must have a suitable treatment or insulation applied to them in order to prevent electrochemical corrosion, or the corrosion must be kept at a low level by a suitable choice of materials”
Up to now VW’s repair procedure has been mainly external repainting and no effective modification has taken place to remedy the cause. From our German contacts we know that VW Germany has finally acknowledged this defect and from March 2013, all new Californias have an insulating barrier between the box aluminium section and the steel bodywork. One of these post March 2013 vehicles with this modification was at COTF. Also, we understand that VW technicians in Germany are undergoing a training course and new repair procedures have been instigated to repair vehicles under warranty.
It is totally unacceptable for any present day vehicle to be suffering from electrochemical corrosion, particularly VW Commercial Vehicles’ most prestigious and expensive vehicle. Some owners have already posted their experiences on YouTube http://youtu.be/L8BEMHZgmWw others have suggested going to the press or Watchdog. At this stage it would be better for VW UK to follow VW Germany and implement the new repair procedure as quickly as possible to stem the growing dissatisfaction of owners.
We deserve, and demand, VW’s assurance that the new repair procedure will be instigated in order to restore our faith in the brand.

Yours faithfully”
User avatar
SusiBus


Reply to above ....

“30 July 2013
Volkswagen California Roof Corrosion
Dear Mr Spencer

Following my letter, dated 29 May 2013, regarding the matter of Volkswagen California roof corrosion, I would like to update you on the progress we have made with the issue that you raised.
Having brought the issue to the attention of our colleagues in Germany, a factory approved repair process has been identified and we are currently preparing key Van Centres in the UK to ensure they can deliver this in accordance with our technical guidelines. Once we have completed this process we will begin to contact customers who have been in touch with our customer service centre. We expect this consultation to begin later this year.
Every Volkswagen California comes with 12 years warranty against through-corrosion (corrosions emanating from inside the body panel) and three years warranty protection for any paintwork defects, offering customers complete peace of mind.
Our customer service centre (08007834 909) is responsible for coordinating all queries and for arranging for vehicles to be inspected. Each case will be inspected on an individual basis by one of our authorised repairers.”


Correspondance from Director of VW Commercial Vehicles recieved by SusiBus .....

Following my letter, dated 30 July 2013, regarding the matter of Volkswagen California roof corrosion, I would like to update you on the progress we have made with the concern.
Having identified a repair process in August, we have subsequently completed all factory¬ mandated training.

Four Volkswagen Group approved Paint and Body Shops have been appointed and are undertaking the training needed to complete repairs to any affected vehicles. Training will be completed in early 2014.

Once this training is complete we will arrange for California repairs to commence.

As per my previous correspondence I would like to reassure California customers that each vehicle comes with a 12-year' warranty against through-corrosion (corrosion emanating from inside a body panel) and a three year warranty for any paintwork defects.

Customers who believe their vehicles may be affected should contact their local Van Centre to have their California inspected. Each case will be reviewed on an individual basis by one of our authorised repairers.
I would like to thank you for bringing the issue to my attention. Outstanding customer service is of paramount importance to us and I wish California owners many more years of happy motoring.
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Andy, thanks for your reply. I must admit I haven't read through all the 43 pages on this subject so haven't seen the letter. All I was doing was reporting what I was told today by the Van Centre Warranty Manager. I must also admit that I tend to agree with his view that the blisters are not caused by corrosion coming through the metal (from within) but appear to be due to the failure of the paint to properly adhere. The manager said that he was quoting VW guidance regarding the 3 year paintwork warranty being doubled to 6 years to cover this issue.
Ron B
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

thanks Andy, although I am still confused .. is the guarantee 6 years or 12 years? If this is an actual fault in the production technique, is it a foregone conclusion that rust will appear at some stage?
thanks
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

On page 34 of this thread, SusiBus posted a copy of a reply from VW which confirms the following:

"As per my previous correspondence I would like to reassure California customers that each vehicle comes with a 12-year' warranty against through-corrosion (corrosion emanating from inside a body panel) and a three year warranty for any paintwork defects".

In my dealings with my local van centre (informed by responses from VW warranty department) this issue is being dealt with as a paintwork defect and therefore falls under the 3 year warranty, now extended to 6 years. Has anyone had a response from their van centre or directly from VW to the contrary, i.e. that the paintwork bubbling/blistering is a through-corrosion issue?

As I understand it, the problem arises as a result of an electro-chemical reaction between steel and aluminium, which causes the aluminium to oxidise, resulting in the paintwork on the aluminium roof panel to bubble/blister. In which case the fault must be through-corrosion, hence the 12 year warranty must apply.
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

and hence it will happen at some stage if it hasn't already?
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

"As I understand it, the problem arises as a result of an electro-chemical reaction between steel and aluminium, which causes the aluminium to oxidise, resulting in the paintwork on the aluminium roof panel to bubble/blister. In which case the fault must be through-corrosion, hence the 12 year warranty must apply."


Whilst that makes sense, shows a reasonable commitment to rectifying this mess, it doesn't explain the paint bubbling around the edge of the main part of the roof edge.
Hence my last post trying to get clarity on whether we are looking at 2 issues here.
I guess the paint does not adhere correctly on any of the aluminium roof parts but is possibly exacerbated by unlike metal corrosive reaction. But that is speculation.
Seems an honest statement from VW is what we need?
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

As I alluded to in a previous post, my more recent understanding is that this is firstly a paint adherence issue and secondly a corrosion issue.

IMHO, there must have been some electro-chemical concern for VW to introduce the gasket between the metals in the 2013MY, and to improve the water sealing.

My understand of the final fix is that it involves fitting a front aluminium fairing with different metallurgy to the original; hence needing to have the old panel completely removed and replaced. And this is the fix that I have heard only very recently went into production vehicles, and perhaps is why fixing our vehicles is taking so long to get started.

Simon

<stands well back>
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Fair enough but still a little ambiguous (- and that isn't of course a personal critiscm.)
So if a modified front panel fixes the issue with unlike metal corrosion then what have VW done for the poorly adhered paint throughout the entire roof? Different paint? Does it apply to all vehicles?

And following on from that , what duration of guarantee applies to which issue?!!!!

What a massive issue this has become - probably needlessly too.

Simon
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

777111 said:
Fair enough but still a little ambiguous (- and that isn't of course a personal critiscm.)
So if a modified front panel fixes the issue with unlike metal corrosion then what have VW done for the poorly adhered paint throughout the entire roof? Different paint? Does it apply to all vehicles?

And following on from that , what duration of guarantee applies to which issue?!!!!

What a massive issue this has become - probably needlessly too.

Simon

My understanding is that this particular issue only affects the one pressing at the front and not the other aluminium pressings used on the roof. Other paint issues are much much much rarer.
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Seems like too much of a coincidence to me - paint that flakes off with underlying corrosion on any aluminium roof part? I have seen 2 examples myself and there are several more reported here.
My money is still on bad paint. And who that is going to affect is anyone's guess.....
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

This is a very helpful & essential thread, thanks everybody!

But it is almost impossible to find the vital information in 644 (& counting) posts.

Could I ask if it would be possible either to put the latest status in a sticky or edit the first post to give that status?

Basically, I think UK is behind Germany, but ahead of France, in that a procedure exists & is just about starting to be applied to customer vehicles by a few trained centers?
In Germany, this major intervention is now fully understood & well established & customers are well received & very satisfied by the operation. But there is a huge waiting list to get treated in a limited number of centers.
In France, we seem to be still at the talking stage.
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Andy is currently gathering all the most up to date information for us, it will then be posted as a locked sticky post.
 
Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

Great idea!

And yes, a sticky of current status and a true diagnosis of the issue(s) would seem a good plan.

Moderator - is this possible please?
 
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