2021 Coast rear suspension sagging ?

[Lambeth Cali]

As some of you know, my van was “level” as in the blue measurements equal. Which I broadly agree with.

And the rear red measurement 40mm smaller than the front one.

When I went to see the man in Cannock he wanted to raise the rear 40mm but I wasn’t convinced and said I wanted to be able to drive under 2 metre barriers. So we agreed a compromise and he raised the van on the rear axle 25mm with a spacer.

Oddly now when I park it outside my house on level ground and put my iPhone spirit level on the cooker top, I get this

Go figure!!

 

[Tuco]

I think this solution will settle the dispute and everyone will be happy:

 

[Lambeth Cali]

If you measure from the top of the wheel arch to the horizontal crease in the top half of the wing& door you can see the top of the front wheel arch is cut higher than the back.

Why do we think the crease is horizontal?
Fairly certain it gets smaller towards the van front to give an arrow-like illusion of speed. I don’t think you can claim it’s supposed to be horizontal.

Oh I feel another thread coming on.

 

[Corradobrit]

I think this solution will settle the dispute and everyone will be happy:

Best colour too

 

[Amarillo]

So if you have the wheel to wheel arch distance equal you will be nose down and when travelling with 2 up in the front even more nose down.

If you drive nose down you’ll use less fuel because you will always be driving downhill. Either that or you’ll go faster for the same fuel.

Win-win.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Let’s emphasize the essentials: if the blue measurements from post #51 are the same, the floor of the van (and therefor kitchen, bed, etc.) will be level on level ground, and the red measurement (wheel arch gap) will be smaller at the rear, as VW intended, since the kitchen, bed, etc. are parallel to the floor.

Much confusion has come from a certain suspension shop claiming that the floor must be 4cm higher at the rear (equal wheel gaps front and rear), a conclusion they have come to by looking at empty panel vans at VW official agencies. They claim that if the floor is not higher at the rear, the steering will go “light,” something I have not experienced. They went so far as to say on the T6 Forum that if California owners wanted to have problematic steering in exchange for being level when parked up, that was their problem. On the contrary, raising the rear of such a heavy vehicle above level raises the center of gravity at the rear, which according to the laws of physics, all other variables being equal, will increase oversteer and sensitivity to crosswinds. Perhaps this absence of oversteer on a level vehicle is what they experience as going “light.”

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Let’s emphasize the essentials: if the blue measurements from post #51 are the same, the floor of the van (and therefor kitchen, bed, etc.) will be level on level ground, and the red measurement (wheel arch gap) will be smaller at the rear, as VW intended, since the kitchen, bed, etc. are parallel to the floor.

Much confusion has come from a certain suspension shop claiming that the floor must be 4cm higher at the rear (equal wheel gaps front and rear), a conclusion they have come to by looking at empty panel vans at VW official agencies. They claim that if the floor is not higher at the rear, the steering will go “light,” something I have not experienced. They went so far as to say on the T6 Forum that if California owners wanted to have problematic steering in exchange for being level when parked up, that was their problem. On the contrary, raising the rear of such a heavy vehicle above level raises the center of gravity at the rear, which according to the laws of physics, all other variables being equal, will increase oversteer and sensitivity to crosswinds. Perhaps this absence of oversteer on a level vehicle is what they experience as going “light.”

Kinda ignored this bit though. Didn’t ya?

 

[clarinetbcn]

Kinda ignored this bit though. Didn’t ya?
View attachment 105119

No, I just arrived at the conclusion that either your level is off or the ground where you parked isn't level. It's mathematically impossible for the kitchen to be level unless the floor is also, and it's also mathematically impossible for the floor to be level on level ground if the front and rear arch gaps are the same. I figure that although you have raised the rear by 2.5 cm instead of four, the iphone level is too primitive to detect the difference. (Edited for accuracy, see post #60)

 

[Amarillo]

the iphone level is too primitive to detect the difference. It uses GPS to measure, and at it's highest accuracy is only accurate to within 5 meters.

I think the iPhone uses a gyroscope for this type of measurement.

 

[clarinetbcn]

I think the iPhone uses a gyroscope for this type of measurement.

I just checked, it's an accelerometer.
"Measures are approximate."

Use iPhone as a level

In Measure on iPhone, determine whether an object is level (parallel to the ground), or how many degrees it varies from level.

support.apple.com

 

[Corradobrit]

As some of you know, my van was “level” as in the blue measurements equal. Which I broadly agree with.
View attachment 105109
And the rear red measurement 40mm smaller than the front one.

When I went to see the man in Cannock he wanted to raise the rear 40mm but I wasn’t convinced and said I wanted to be able to drive under 2 metre barriers. So we agreed a compromise and he raised the van on the rear axle 25mm with a spacer.

Oddly now when I park it outside my house on level ground and put my iPhone spirit level on the cooker top, I get this
View attachment 105110
Go figure!!

What iPhone do you have? On the more recent models the camera lenses extend beyond the case which doesn't sit flat on its back. No idea if the software compensates for this but worth considering.

 

[andyinluton]

I would be more interested to see what the overhead control panel says re how level it is. That seems very accurate & if it's showing level I know I can sleep either way in the bed.
After using it for a bit I know we have to add on a couple of Minutes if we are on ramps as it will roll back down slightly when the handbrake is released and a couple of minutes left to right if there's only the driver in the van.

As to testing everything with an Iphone am amazed that someone can find a piece of ground so level to park on in the first place to test the set up.

 

[Amarillo]

As to testing everything with an Iphone am amazed that someone can find a piece of ground so level to park on in the first place to test the set up.

Maybe the ground wasn’t level but compensated for the sag.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Let’s emphasize the essentials: if the blue measurements from post #51 are the same, the floor of the van (and therefor kitchen, bed, etc.) will be level on level ground, and the red measurement (wheel arch gap) will be smaller at the rear, as VW intended, since the kitchen, bed, etc. are parallel to the floor.

Much confusion has come from a certain suspension shop claiming that the floor must be 4cm higher at the rear (equal wheel gaps front and rear), a conclusion they have come to by looking at empty panel vans at VW official agencies. They claim that if the floor is not higher at the rear, the steering will go “light,” something I have not experienced. They went so far as to say on the T6 Forum that if California owners wanted to have problematic steering in exchange for being level when parked up, that was their problem. On the contrary, raising the rear of such a heavy vehicle above level raises the center of gravity at the rear, which according to the laws of physics, all other variables being equal, will increase oversteer and sensitivity to crosswinds. Perhaps this absence of oversteer on a level vehicle is what they experience as going “light.”

Absolutely spot on.
My van did not feel stable on motorways.
The best thing I did was remove those spacers. IMO, they’re nothing short of dangerous…

 

[WelshGas]

Kinda ignored this bit though. Didn’t ya?
View attachment 105119

How old is your vehicle? I believe you mentioned 2008, so about 15 yrs? Low milage I gather. So it has probably spent more time stationary than moving.
You mentioned you are on original springs.
So, 15yrs spent predominantly stationary , will mean there is an element of spring compression . 2.5cms compression after 15 yrs compared to a newly registered vehicle is to be expected.

 

[calibusje]

So then mine (and many more) will hang to the ground after 15 years?
With the exception of delivery vans or taxis and the like, all other vehicles will be standing still more than driving. I'm going to travel soon so no one can't pin me again for driving more than looking at it Bye!

 

[adamsteele2802]

How often are pitches level anyway?
Coming from tent camping surely most of us have slept on more of a slope than VW's 4cm optical illusion and now have the luxury of chocks.
Along with the unsightly arch gap, the handling and ride of a factory california is poor at best so getting that sorted was my priority, may as well make it aesthetically pleasing and better to drive.


Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[B J G]

Let’s emphasize the essentials: if the blue measurements from post #51 are the same, the floor of the van (and therefor kitchen, bed, etc.) will be level on level ground, and the red measurement (wheel arch gap) will be smaller at the rear, as VW intended, since the kitchen, bed, etc. are parallel to the floor.

Much confusion has come from a certain suspension shop claiming that the floor must be 4cm higher at the rear (equal wheel gaps front and rear), a conclusion they have come to by looking at empty panel vans at VW official agencies. They claim that if the floor is not higher at the rear, the steering will go “light,” something I have not experienced. They went so far as to say on the T6 Forum that if California owners wanted to have problematic steering in exchange for being level when parked up, that was their problem. On the contrary, raising the rear of such a heavy vehicle above level raises the center of gravity at the rear, which according to the laws of physics, all other variables being equal, will increase oversteer and sensitivity to crosswinds. Perhaps this absence of oversteer on a level vehicle is what they experience as going “light.”

Quite agree as it would take a huge body angle, nose down, to make any appreciable change in the steering caster angle resulting in the quoted 'light' steering. The argument would be more towards heavy steering due to the weight being front biased.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I can’t help feeling that some time ago a VW designer was unhappy that his new T5 prototype would look different when empty or loaded. But he thought up a clever compromise. By altering the rear wheel arch he could make the wheel gaps look equal when the van was empty and so 3/4 right. And when at maximum load the van would drop 40mm and the van floor would be level (surely a non negotiable for any engineer) and it would again look 3/4 right.

A clever idea perhaps? Surely not an accident?

Whether a Transporter or California, these vans were always repeatedly going to have things put in and out of the rear.

Perfection would have entailed rear air suspension but VW told him that wasn’t an option so like a good designer he didn’t let perfection be the enemy of the good. They created something that was 3/4 right all the time.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Along with the unsightly arch gap, the handling and ride of a factory california is poor at best so getting that sorted was my priority, may as well make it aesthetically pleasing and better to drive.


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Aesthetically pleasing.
I prefer keeping me and my loved ones safe.

Priority number 1…

 

[tedgina]

That’s an empty van.
An empty Ocean has as much weight in the back as a half loaded panel van.
Put the equivalent weight of the bench, kitchen etc etc in that panel van & it will sit the same as an empty ocean.
Load both a van and an ocean up to 100% of max load & they should sit the same slightly down at the back.

What is the ideal weight distribution front to back is it 50/50 ?or more on the rear

 

[adamsteele2802]

Aesthetically pleasing.
I prefer keeping me and my loved ones safe.

Priority number 1…

What is not safe? It now has superior components

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[calibusje]

Let’s emphasize the essentials: if the blue measurements from post #51 are the same, the floor of the van (and therefor kitchen, bed, etc.) will be level on level ground, and the red measurement (wheel arch gap) will be smaller at the rear, as VW intended, since the kitchen, bed, etc. are parallel to the floor.

Much confusion has come from a certain suspension shop claiming that the floor must be 4cm higher at the rear (equal wheel gaps front and rear), a conclusion they have come to by looking at empty panel vans at VW official agencies. They claim that if the floor is not higher at the rear, the steering will go “light,” something I have not experienced. They went so far as to say on the T6 Forum that if California owners wanted to have problematic steering in exchange for being level when parked up, that was their problem. On the contrary, raising the rear of such a heavy vehicle above level raises the center of gravity at the rear, which according to the laws of physics, all other variables being equal, will increase oversteer and sensitivity to crosswinds. Perhaps this absence of oversteer on a level vehicle is what they experience as going “light.”

Lots of explanation, good. Assuming that there is a lot of confusion due to an opinion of some suspension shop and a post from them on a t6 forum certainly does not apply to my confusion: never heard of that issued by them but have eyes and measuring is knowing: 4 cm lower at the back, regardless what is level. Actually, a cali with furniture is already reasonably loaded as standard and that is why I think that Volkswagen could already adjust this from the factory. They were able to make a good setup that doesn't look like a new cali already has a sagged rear suspension.
Many choose expensive rims and other external decorations that are often very beautiful, but that it looks in profile as if it is hanging should not be mentioned because 'it is meant to be'. It does comes from the factory that way, but they could also come out differently. I will most likely not change anything because with us this is asking for problems with the annual inspection and I certainly believe what else you mentioned: the control and conformance will change (logically). I don't think my cali has a bad ride at all and I don't want to risk getting it worse (and safety as priority as someone mentioned).
Some can't or want to see the california is sagging at the back (probably due to the weight of the furniture) and others don’t care and each to his own on that and fine by me. I notice it and if it is an optical illusion is not clear by me. I also hope no one holds a grudge against me for not being convinced yet. Perhaps there are others who clearly see that their cali has more filled wheel arches at the back due to the weight. Level? as someone already mentioned: where are you level? Almost nowhere. You have to look for level when you have arrived at your sleeping place. When is your cali level inside? That's also not that simple so the view is important enough to mention that he looks a bit weird in profile and the reasons for that have been mentioned a lot and there are some who want to do something about it and for others it’s an optical illusion. I just want to understand it and make a puzzle of all the statements or: by noon we leave with Autostadt as the furthest point. I pass Hanover and will ask them

 

[Corradobrit]

Let us know what you think of Autostadt. I have plans to go myself sometime soon.

 

[calibusje]

Let us know what you think of Autostadt. I have plans to go myself sometime soon.

I will, I'll also stop by the california fertigung factory and pop in. Whether I will be there long I doubt because normally no individual visit possible. At Autostadt, the museum in the Dieselstrasse attracts me in particular. We'll be leaving soon now