2021 Coast rear suspension sagging ?

[soulstyledevon]

What is not safe? It now has superior components

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

3 weeks after fitting, lowering springs removed.
7 weeks after fitting, the spacers removed
13 weeks after fitting, the Koni’s were falling apart.

I can forgive the Koni’s, just one of those things. But fitting spacers and lifting the rear end, without question, is a very bad idea.

I will have to get a picture of my mates converted transporter. That really did have a saggy bottom. He used the 5mm set off mine. Which was more than enough. The 10 and 20mm went in the bin.

 

[adamsteele2802]

3 weeks after fitting, lowering springs removed.
7 weeks after fitting, the spacers removed
13 weeks after fitting, the Koni’s were falling apart.

I can forgive the Koni’s, just one of those things. But fitting spacers and lifting the rear end, without question, is a very bad idea.

I will have to get a picture of my mates converted transporter. That really did have a saggy bottom. He used the 5mm set off mine. Which was more than enough. The 10 and 20mm went in the bin.

The rear of mine has not been lifted or any spacers fitted. KW kit fitted and H&R arbs, been on nearly 2 years no problems whatsoever with a better ride.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[soulstyledevon]

The rear of mine has not been lifted or any spacers fitted. KW kit fitted and H&R arbs, been on nearly 2 years no problems whatsoever with a better ride.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

I think you need to re-read all the posts.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Lower rear wheel arches are a long VW design tradition...no one ever said this one was sagging at the rear!

 

[adamsteele2802]

I think you need to re-read all the posts.

Not sure what you are getting at, you implied my van is unsafe and listed some parts fitted to your mates van that i don't have.
I have read all the above comments thanks.

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[Amarillo]

Lower rear wheel arches are a long VW design tradition...no one ever said this one was sagging at the rear!

The description under your photo doesn't match!

 

[clarinetbcn]

The description under your photo doesn't match!

View attachment 105128

It's a resto-mod.

 

[Perfectos]

I can’t help feeling that some time ago a VW designer was unhappy that his new T5 prototype would look different when empty or loaded. But he thought up a clever compromise. By altering the rear wheel arch he could make the wheel gaps look equal when the van was empty and so 3/4 right. And when at maximum load the van would drop 40mm and the van floor would be level (surely a non negotiable for any engineer) and it would again look 3/4 right.

A clever idea perhaps? Surely not an accident?

Whether a Transporter or California, these vans were always repeatedly going to have things put in and out of the rear.

Perfection would have entailed rear air suspension but VW told him that wasn’t an option so like a good designer he didn’t let perfection be the enemy of the good. They created something that was 3/4 right all the time.

You are correct, no accident by VW As far as different wheel arch heights front / rear, additional load will change the height stance of a vehicle which could be mitigated with air suspension.

Sadly VW did not supply Air suspension.
that’s why there is a huge international aftermarket business built solely around the fact that the rear wheel arch of a transporter has been designed to be lower than the front wheel arch profile, therefore creating a visual effect which some do not like & spawning an aftermarket to “correct“ the visual aspect for those who do not like it and are willing to do some thing.

measuring the ride height of a vehicle Or the “level“ of a vehicle:
is a snap shot based on many many variable at any given time, static load, imposed load, age of vehicle etc,

A known level datum and good knowledge of the OEM tolerance is required & knowledge of the parameters relating to that specific vehicle build and the possible variables that may affect such assessment Is required.
Anyone have that info ?

anyone got a properly dimension drawing for a California?
, (any factory variant) that will provide an unequivocal answer to the correct stance and allow the layman to check the correct level of any given body part to assess the vehicles compliance Against OEM spec?
(Not just the marketing drawing showing simple external body dimensions such as roof height, length, wheel base etc, available on the internet)

the answer is NO, it’s not out in the public domain.
all we know is that the California ride height / suspension is set up differently from other transporter variants,
We know the California is intended for camping / touring, not carrying heavy additional loads As a panel van.
we all know there are many many factors that can add a variable imposed loads such as water , fuel, additional equipment, passengers etc. and other variables such factory extras, drive train, tyre pressures / size / wheel size etc etc.

To some this can make it look as if the rear end is sagging , compared to other similar vans (sometimes people mistakenly compare different variants, models etc, expecting the stance to be the same On all)

We know various vans have various different coil spring rating, denoted by colour coding, so we know the manufacturer is aware of differences in set up based on for example California model, let alone the entire transporter range, we know different vans have different set up based on the OEMs intended use of the vehicle etc.

we also know that every transporter since T5 onwards has a different height rear wheel arch to the front which contributes to the perceived issue! (T2 included)

Under what conditions should we expect a California Variant, in whichever format / model, sit perfectly level or have an amount of sag at the rear?
What is the tolerance allowed?

The only real test would be to take it to the manufacturers or approved garage capable of carrying out a proper assessment to determine if it is within the intended design tolerance!

Enjoy your vehicles and the mods you do, just stay safe and be prepared for an answer that may not fit your agenda.

 

[calibusje]

Comparing the wheel arches of a last generation transporter with those of anT2? Interesting.
Anyway: first stop of one of our far too few trips that we make with our coast (isn't it WG only joking off course) and have to use the level blocks. Nor the van nor the ground is level
Thanks to all your comments and remarks (minus a few): I am now trying to imagine that I have the wheel arches of an old model transporter and everything will be ok.

 

[sidepod]

Quite agree as it would take a huge body angle, nose down, to make any appreciable change in the steering caster angle resulting in the quoted 'light' steering. The argument would be more towards heavy steering due to the weight being front biased.

Hmmm easy there. Castor angle adjustments come in small amounts.
Basic trig using the vehicle wheelbase and an assumed front/rear ride height delta of say 40mm will give an appreciable angle change.

I’ve had motorbikes in the past with adjustable headstocks. A 1.5deg change made them unridable.

Current van is set up for max caster and is only about 1.25 deg above standard. A noticeable difference and most definitely still connected to the road at Vmax.

 

[sidepod]

You are correct, no accident by VW As far as different wheel arch heights front / rear, additional load will change the height stance of a vehicle which could be mitigated with air suspension.

Sadly VW did not supply Air suspension.
that’s why there is a huge international aftermarket business built solely around the fact that the rear wheel arch of a transporter has been designed to be lower than the front wheel arch profile, therefore creating a visual effect which some do not like & spawning an aftermarket to “correct“ the visual aspect for those who do not like it and are willing to do some thing.

measuring the ride height of a vehicle Or the “level“ of a vehicle:
is a snap shot based on many many variable at any given time, static load, imposed load, age of vehicle etc,

A known level datum and good knowledge of the OEM tolerance is required & knowledge of the parameters relating to that specific vehicle build and the possible variables that may affect such assessment Is required.
Anyone have that info ?

anyone got a properly dimension drawing for a California?
, (any factory variant) that will provide an unequivocal answer to the correct stance and allow the layman to check the correct level of any given body part to assess the vehicles compliance Against OEM spec?
(Not just the marketing drawing showing simple external body dimensions such as roof height, length, wheel base etc, available on the internet)

the answer is NO, it’s not out in the public domain.
all we know is that the California ride height / suspension is set up differently from other transporter variants,
We know the California is intended for camping / touring, not carrying heavy additional loads As a panel van.
we all know there are many many factors that can add a variable imposed loads such as water , fuel, additional equipment, passengers etc. and other variables such factory extras, drive train, tyre pressures / size / wheel size etc etc.

To some this can make it look as if the rear end is sagging , compared to other similar vans (sometimes people mistakenly compare different variants, models etc, expecting the stance to be the same On all)

We know various vans have various different coil spring rating, denoted by colour coding, so we know the manufacturer is aware of differences in set up based on for example California model, let alone the entire transporter range, we know different vans have different set up based on the OEMs intended use of the vehicle etc.

we also know that every transporter since T5 onwards has a different height rear wheel arch to the front which contributes to the perceived issue! (T2 included)

Under what conditions should we expect a California Variant, in whichever format / model, sit perfectly level or have an amount of sag at the rear?
What is the tolerance allowed?

The only real test would be to take it to the manufacturers or approved garage capable of carrying out a proper assessment to determine if it is within the intended design tolerance!

Enjoy your vehicles and the mods you do, just stay safe and be prepared for an answer that may not fit your agenda.

I have all of the info you refer to, chassis set up versus vehicle variants etc but for a 4 obvs.
It’s all in the official VW workshop manual.
Bently Publishing is the company I believe. You can buy an online subscription/access.
Not cheap, £120 if memory serves. Covers the entire vehicle so a very useful tool.
Imagine if people had facts to quote online instead of just making stuff up about subjects they don’t fully understand.

 

[Perfectos]

I have all of the info you refer to, chassis set up versus vehicle variants etc but for a 4 obvs.
It’s all in the official VW workshop manual.
Bently Publishing is the company I believe. You can buy an online subscription/access.
Not cheap, £120 if memory serves. Covers the entire vehicle so a very useful tool.
Imagine if people had facts to quote online instead of just making stuff up about subjects they don’t fully understand.

Hi Sidepod,

thanks, I have checked the Bentley Publishing website, I cannot see an option for Transporter T5 onwards

the options are T2 upto 1979 Or Eurovan upto 2003

i can’t see anything for 2003 onwards

Am I missing something?

 

[sidepod]

Hi Sidepod,

thanks, I have checked the Bentley Publishing website, I cannot see an option for Transporter T5 onwards

the options are T2 upto 1979 Or Eurovan upto 2003

i can’t see anything for 2003 onwards

Am I missing something?

Ah that’s interesting? I was sure I’d seen them on the site? Apologies

I’ve tried to register on erwin but for reasons I can’t figure out, there is no UK option in the Country box and therefore it fails.

Anyone managed to register from the uk?

 

[calibusje]

As for me: I try to make it an optical illusion;

All levelled up!

 

[WelshGas]

Ah that’s interesting? I was sure I’d seen them on the site? Apologies

I’ve tried to register on erwin but for reasons I can’t figure out, there is no UK option in the Country box and therefore it fails.

Anyone managed to register from the uk?

You select Great Britain, there is no UK.

 

[tedgina]

Hmmm easy there. Castor angle adjustments come in small amounts.
Basic trig using the vehicle wheelbase and an assumed front/rear ride height delta of say 40mm will give an appreciable angle change.

I’ve had motorbikes in the past with adjustable headstocks. A 1.5deg change made them unridable.

Current van is set up for max caster and is only about 1.25 deg above standard. A noticeable difference and most definitely still connected to the road at Vmax.

On motorcycles the rear suspension has an adjustment for preload so when you take pillions the rear does not sit down and stops the front being to light ,is this not the same when other vehicles are loaded up,with the california it has a lot of weight on it so bringing it level is wrong?

 

[sidepod]

You select Great Britain, there is no UK.

Doh!!

 

[Lambeth Cali]

By the way, what rear springs do I have with this one white mark?

I noticed someone seemed to know. I was trying to get a look at the spacers.

 

[tedgina]

3 weeks after fitting, lowering springs removed.
7 weeks after fitting, the spacers removed
13 weeks after fitting, the Koni’s were falling apart.

I can forgive the Koni’s, just one of those things. But fitting spacers and lifting the rear end, without question, is a very bad idea.

I will have to get a picture of my mates converted transporter. That really did have a saggy bottom. He used the 5mm set off mine. Which was more than enough. The 10 and 20mm went in the bin.

Was there not a 2 year warranty on the Konis?

 

[calibusje]

Personally I think you are spending too much time staring at your static California, instead of using it, but that’s your prerogative.

Over 24.000 KMS now and cali one year and a few weeks old. How am I doing?

 

[WelshGas]

Over 24.000 KMS now and cali one year and a few weeks old. How am I doing?

Getting there. Managed 32,000 + Km ( 20,000 miles )in my first year.

Now averaging 15,000 miles/year post Covid.

 

[calibusje]

Getting there. Managed 32,000 + Km ( 20,000 miles )in my first year.

Now averaging 15,000 miles/year post Covid.

Very good. Do you still have to take into account school holidays for the children and work? I do otherwise 32.000 + km could be feasible

 

[WelshGas]

Very good. Do you still have to take into account school holidays for the children and work? I do otherwise 32.000 + km could be feasible

Not usually, but this year will be an exception as we have builders in.

 

[Defender90]

Not usually, but this year will be an exception as we have builders in.

My issue with the standard California suspension is only when fully loaded the back end is to low the mud flaps are almost catching the ground and do catch when going over anything that is uneven,i have even scuffed the rear wheel safe lock coming out of a campsite in glencoe.
I am booked in for a lift but I do have concerns when I see YouTube videos with guys trying to level the van measuring from the top of the tyre to the wheel arch lip which as you say will cause nose down issues.
Do you know is the California suspension the same as a transporter ?

 

[WelshGas]

My issue with the standard California suspension is only when fully loaded the back end is to low the mud flaps are almost catching the ground and do catch when going over anything that is uneven,i have even scuffed the rear wheel safe lock coming out of a campsite in glencoe.
I am booked in for a lift but I do have concerns when I see YouTube videos with guys trying to level the van measuring from the top of the tyre to the wheel arch lip which as you say will cause nose down issues.
Do you know is the California suspension the same as a transporter ?

The California is supposedly based on the Caravelle. I have read of some using Transporter T32 springs.