2021 Coast rear suspension sagging ?

[WelshGas]

The California is supposedly based on the Caravelle. I have read of some using Transporter T32 springs. Have you ever had your vehicle weighed when fully loaded?

 

[Amarillo]

Over 24.000 KMS now and cali one year and a few weeks old. How am I doing?

Year 1 - 39,672 Km - 39,671 Km
Year 2 - 67,190 Km - 27,518 Km
Year 3 - 86,594 Km - 19,404 Km
Year 4 - 100,780 Km - 14,186 Km
Year 5 - 115,537 Km - 14,757 Km
Year 6 - 131,474 Km - 15,937 Km

Grand tour of Europe (~45,000 Km) month 4 of Year 1 to Month 4 of Year 2.

Second car bought 5 months into Year 3 ~6,000 Km per year.

Covid Year 4 and Year 5

I think that at 24,000 Km per year you are doing really well.

Don’t forget to reset your trip odometer when your main odometer hits 94,444 Km.

 

[calibusje]

Year 1 - 39,672 Km - 39,671 Km
Year 2 - 67,190 Km - 27,518 Km
Year 3 - 86,594 Km - 19,404 Km
Year 4 - 100,780 Km - 14,186 Km
Year 5 - 115,537 Km - 14,757 Km
Year 6 - 131,474 Km - 15,937 Km

Grand tour of Europe (~45,000 Km) month 4 of Year 1 to Month 4 of Year 2.

Second car bought 5 months into Year 3 ~6,000 Km per year.

Covid Year 4 and Year 5

I think that at 24,000 Km per year you are doing really well.

Don’t forget to reset your trip odometer when your main odometer hits 94,444 Km.

Thx; me and my espouse have a full time job and two kids at school and their hobbies and sports: hugely affects our free moments to travel but I am happy with what we can still do with it.
I followed you at your Euro trip and liked what you all did.
What we did so far:
Year one :

• border triangle Belgium-Netherlands-Germany (a first test with the new one after 10 years with our old faithful T4 westfalia) + Monschau and Blegny-Mines.
• Summertime: Alps (Fr.) + Tour de France, Monaco and along the coast to Gruissan with stops in Nice, Cannes, Grasse (for perfume), Saint-Tropez, the Camargue, Aigues-Mortes, dino park in Mèze, Île de Noirmoutier, Mont-Saint-Michel, and back to Bruges via Deauville & Honfleur.
• Summertime 2: The French VW bus meeting at Chérizet
• Belgian Ardennes with beer at Orval. Also Sedan (Fr.)
• Visit Camper Centre Amersfoort for a very informative t6.1 day (NL)
• Autostadt (Germany) via Utrecht (NL), Oberhausen, Hannover.
• Eifel (Germany)
• The Netherlands with a visit at Poptop (specialists in campervans) Space Expo, Den Helder, Enkhuizen en Hoorn, Philippine.

All together almost 40 overnight stays with the four of us in our new t6.1 coast in all seasons. Unfortunately we didn't make it to the UK but our last unforgettable trip with the old T4 was in the UK.
We’re ready for year two!

Greetings

 

[Defender90]

This was a comment by a suspension specialist interesting

some very unusual comments ! Standard Californias do sit lower in the rear than a normal van. , this is due to the weight of the camper equipment , not a design feature. If we fitted any kit to any van we always make sure they sit level , level means the chassis is 40 mm lower in front than the rear , ( the rake ) this ensures the steering gives proper feed back and limits under steer , no one has ever commented that they feel like they are sliding out of the seats , in reality that does happen with standard suspension due to excessive body roll from poor design standard shocks . our experience is that the 4 motion California also sits lower at the rear but of course the vehicle is quite a lot heavier , this might make it feel different . The shocks on both vehicles are the same so I can not see how they ride so different. The newer van would have 28 mm rear ARB and the H and R are30 mm so again better handling and cornering on the new vehicle doesn’t make any logical sense.
in my humble opinion the california in standard trim is the worst handling transporter available And even the later ones with a bigger ARB and higher rear springs are not much better .,

 

[WelshGas]

This was a comment by a suspension specialist interesting

some very unusual comments ! Standard Californias do sit lower in the rear than a normal van. , this is due to the weight of the camper equipment , not a design feature. If we fitted any kit to any van we always make sure they sit level , level means the chassis is 40 mm lower in front than the rear , ( the rake ) this ensures the steering gives proper feed back and limits under steer , no one has ever commented that they feel like they are sliding out of the seats , in reality that does happen with standard suspension due to excessive body roll from poor design standard shocks . our experience is that the 4 motion California also sits lower at the rear but of course the vehicle is quite a lot heavier , this might make it feel different . The shocks on both vehicles are the same so I can not see how they ride so different. The newer van would have 28 mm rear ARB and the H and R are30 mm so again better handling and cornering on the new vehicle doesn’t make any logical sense.
in my humble opinion the california in standard trim is the worst handling transporter available And even the later ones with a bigger ARB and higher rear springs are not much better .,

Interesting hypothesis, unfortunately many owners fall for it.

 

[sidepod]

Did someone tell him he was a specialist or did he just decide?

 

[clarinetbcn]

"If we fitted any kit to any van we always make sure they sit level , level means the chassis is 40 mm lower in front than the rear , ( the rake )..."

Doublespeak: War is peace. 1984: anti-totalitarianism book by English novelist George Orwell. Doublethink: the concept of holding two contradictory thoughts at the same time and believing in both equally. Newspeak: state-imposed control of language. Doublespeak: 'war is peace' and 'freedom is slavery' slogans.

 

[Defender90]

Doublespeak: War is peace. 1984: anti-totalitarianism book by English novelist George Orwell. Doublethink: the concept of holding two contradictory thoughts at the same time and believing in both equally. Newspeak: state-imposed control of language. Doublespeak: 'war is peace' and 'freedom is slavery' slogans.

Interesting hypothesis, unfortunately many owners fall for it.

I think they do have a valid point ,take the vw california beach with no load in it, it sits higher at the back than the ocean the wheel arch at the back is almost level with the front so slight nose down.Vw are well know for saving money just like all car manufactures in an ideal world money no object the ocean would have suspension modifications to compensate for the weight increase of the additional camping equipment.Having the extra camping equipment and other things like bikes can cause the front end to become light which will impact the front end drive handling.

 

[WelshGas]

I think they do have a valid point ,take the vw california beach with no load in it, it sits higher at the back than the ocean the wheel arch at the back is almost level with the front so slight nose down.Vw are well know for saving money just like all car manufactures in an ideal world money no object the ocean would have suspension modifications to compensate for the weight increase of the additional camping equipment.Having the extra camping equipment and other things like bikes can cause the front end to become light which will impact the front end drive handling.

Both the Beach and Ocean have the same MGW of 3050kgms, but obviously different payloads. The chassis and suspension are designed to cope with a variety of load options between the empty vehicle and fully loaded vehicle and to handle correctly between these 2 extremes.
Adjusting suspension heights for just one of these loading options , either empty or fully loaded just doesn't make sense the suspension has to cope with both extremes.

 

[clarinetbcn]

I think they do have a valid point ,take the vw california beach with no load in it, it sits higher at the back than the ocean the wheel arch at the back is almost level with the front so slight nose down.Vw are well know for saving money just like all car manufactures in an ideal world money no object the ocean would have suspension modifications to compensate for the weight increase of the additional camping equipment.Having the extra camping equipment and other things like bikes can cause the front end to become light which will impact the front end drive handling.

Having hauled the two crash tested individual 2nd row seats in and out of my Beach several times a year since owning it, and taking into account the 3 seat bench, I figure a Beach with all 7 seats in weighs quite similar to an Ocean…perhaps someone has the data? No, the Beach sits with floor and door sill level, which means the wheel gap at the front is higher than at the back. When the 2nd row seats go out and gear and water tank go in, it continues to sit level. No light front steering, not even when I had 5 people and 9 bikes in mine (3 seat bench moved up to 2nd row, 5 bikes in the back and four on the tailgate rack.) An empty Transporter sits with the rear floor higher than the front and equal wheel arch gaps front and rear, but, who drives them empty? The idea that the front goes “light” with the engine sitting over the front wheels is, well, curious to say the least.

 

[tedgina]

Both the Beach and Ocean have the same MGW of 3050kgms, but obviously different payloads. The chassis and suspension are designed to cope with a variety of load options between the empty vehicle and fully loaded vehicle and to handle correctly between these 2 extremes.
Adjusting suspension heights for just one of these loading options , either empty or fully loaded just doesn't make sense the suspension has to cope with both extremes.

The ocean is always near max load so why not set up for this configuration, surely having a lighter front is not good, look at badly loaded car towing a caravan trying to get going on a incline no grip at the front.

 

[WelshGas]

The ocean is always near max load so why not set up for this configuration, surely having a lighter front is not good, look at badly loaded car towing a caravan trying to get going on a incline no grip at the front.

Apart from water mine is always loaded and the floor to body line height is the same front and rear , near side and off side, so level. Add 1 passenger and water and there is less than 4mm difference front to rear.

 

[andyinluton]

The ocean is always near max load so why not set up for this configuration, surely having a lighter front is not good, look at badly loaded car towing a caravan trying to get going on a incline no grip at the front.

Even fully loaded a Cali is heavier in the front than the back, most of the weight of the camping side of things is between the front & rear wheels. Raising the back an inch or two isn't going to transfer the weight off the back axle & put it on the front.

The Californias are set up to be driven with near max load, if you had ever driven an empty transporter you would think the ride in a Cali was amazing.

An empty transporter feels like it's heavy at the front & has the springs missing from the back, with the back end bouncing & skipping all over the place, get it half full & the ride improves hugely.

 

[Defender90]

Having hauled the two crash tested individual 2nd row seats in and out of my Beach several times a year since owning it, and taking into account the 3 seat bench, I figure a Beach with all 7 seats in weighs quite similar to an Ocean…perhaps someone has the data? No, the Beach sits with floor and door sill level, which means the wheel gap at the front is higher than at the back. When the 2nd row seats go out and gear and water tank go in, it continues to sit level. No light front steering, not even when I had 5 people and 9 bikes in mine (3 seat bench moved up to 2nd row, 5 bikes in the back and four on the tailgate rack. An empty Transporter sits with the rear floor higher than the front and equal wheel arch gaps front and rear, but, who drives them empty? The idea that the front goes “light” with the engine sitting over the front wheels is, well, curious to say the least.

The empty transporter can be driven empty and is not unsafe just like its not unsafe when loaded to the correct weight.if you take my 4 motion for example it has a full size spare the 4 motion rear diff assembly then 2 bikes my 25kg kayak in the boot and all the camping gear,we don't have any passengers apart from a dog that sits in the middle the cali sits well down on the rear i personally think the suspension is right at its limit the springs are compressed past the ideal amount which will cause poor ride and handling.The front end will be light so to speak but as welsh gas says still within vw tolerance but not ideal in my opinion.Vw have built a camper suspension that covers the full range but the 4 motion should have an up rated suspension option.

 

[Defender90]

Even fully loaded a Cali is heavier in the front than the back, most of the weight of the camping side of things is between the front & rear wheels. Raising the back an inch or two isn't going to transfer the weight off the back axle & put it on the front.

The Californias are set up to be driven with near max load, if you had ever driven an empty transporter you would think the ride in a Cali was amazing.

An empty transporter feels like it's heavy at the front & has the springs missing from the back, with the back end bouncing & skipping all over the place, get it half full & the ride improves hugely.

The springs at the front will be extended if the back springs are compressed by increasing the strength of the rear spring and fitting adjusters it will transfer down force onto the front springs balancing the suspension out.

 

[andyinluton]

The springs at the front will be extended if the back springs are compressed by increasing the strength of the rear spring and fitting adjusters it will transfer down force onto the front springs balancing the suspension out.

Raising the rear an inch or two will make naff all difference to the weight on the front axle.
The two biggest influences on whether the van feels light at the front are the weight of the people sitting in the front & how much stuff you've loaded behind the back axle.

As the axle is pretty close to the rear of the van its bike racks & bike boxes that stick out that make the biggest difference & even that isn't huge with a 3m wheelbase, 30kg on the rear rack lightens the load on the front by 10kg - whereas 30kg on the front passenger seat adds about 20kg to the front & 10kg to the rear.

 

[Californication69]

Love how my 4M drives and handles.
Absolutely fan Dabby dozy.
It’s always fully loaded.
Ready for a swift getaway.
When I’m not working, childminding, projects.
Only way to live a true Nomadic lifestyle would be to do a John Darwin.

 

[WelshGas]

The empty transporter can be driven empty and is not unsafe just like its not unsafe when loaded to the correct weight.if you take my 4 motion for example it has a full size spare the 4 motion rear diff assembly then 2 bikes my 25kg kayak in the boot and all the camping gear,we don't have any passengers apart from a dog that sits in the middle the cali sits well down on the rear i personally think the suspension is right at its limit the springs are compressed past the ideal amount which will cause poor ride and handling.The front end will be light so to speak but as welsh gas says still within vw tolerance but not ideal in my opinion.Vw have built a camper suspension that covers the full range but the 4 motion should have an up rated suspension option.

Sorry, but I Disagree. Have you had the vehicle weighed to confirm its weight when fully packed and that the axle loads are within tolerance?
If, as you said, you’re vehicle sits down at the rear, as confirmed by measuring the suspension height correctly, floor to body line, with a significant difference front to rear then I think you will find it is overloaded with a rear bias.

 

[Defender90]

Sorry, but I Disagree. Have you had the vehicle weighed to confirm its weight when fully packed and that the axle loads are within tolerance?
If, as you said, you’re vehicle sits down at the rear, as confirmed by measuring the suspension height correctly, floor to body line, with a significant difference front to rear then I think you will find it is overloaded with a rear bias.

It’s sat lower for sure but I don’t think it would be a massive problem if I didn’t need to access areas that are very uneven,the motorway driving is excellent no issues love driving it just done 4k miles through Europe but the poor ground clear is a problem I have a remote property in skye and we love getting to remote camps in Spain all of which need a vehicle with ground clearance.
I don’t like moving away from standard lots of time has gone into the design but needs must unfortunately.
not had it weighed but I don’t think I will be overload we aren’t big on stuff lol

 

[WelshGas]

It’s sat lower for sure but I don’t think it would be a massive problem if I didn’t need to access areas that are very uneven,the motorway driving is excellent no issues love driving it just done 4k miles through Europe but the poor ground clear is a problem I have a remote property in skye and we love getting to remote camps in Spain all of which need a vehicle with ground clearance.
I don’t like moving away from standard lots of time has gone into the design but needs must unfortunately.
not had it weighed but I don’t think I will be overload we aren’t big on stuff lol

It’s not always about weight, but distribution can have a significant effect.

 

[larrylamb]

It’s sat lower for sure but I don’t think it would be a massive problem if I didn’t need to access areas that are very uneven,the motorway driving is excellent no issues love driving it just done 4k miles through Europe but the poor ground clear is a problem I have a remote property in skye and we love getting to remote camps in Spain all of which need a vehicle with ground clearance.
I don’t like moving away from standard lots of time has gone into the design but needs must unfortunately.
not had it weighed but I don’t think I will be overload we aren’t big on stuff lol

Sounds like air suspension would be the best option to suit all your requirements.

 

[danvan]

Just to add to this debate, the Cali optical illusion works the other way on our Nugget (it looks like it's nose down, but seems level inside).

Our old Cali didn't cope well with weight at the rear and would sink to the ground, whereas the Nugget ride height at the rear seems unaffected by weight. That may sound better, but the Nugget is really bouncy at the back and I hoped more weight would sort that (but it doesn't, it still bounces fully loaded with four bikes hanging out the back).

 

[sidepod]

Even fully loaded a Cali is heavier in the front than the back, most of the weight of the camping side of things is between the front & rear wheels. Raising the back an inch or two isn't going to transfer the weight off the back axle & put it on the front.

The Californias are set up to be driven with near max load, if you had ever driven an empty transporter you would think the ride in a Cali was amazing.

An empty transporter feels like it's heavy at the front & has the springs missing from the back, with the back end bouncing & skipping all over the place, get it half full & the ride improves hugely.

Finally someone is talking sense!

 

[calibusje]

Funny: this discussion was already silent from February 22; a few days ago I just wanted to know if I already did enough kilometers with our new cali in the first year. And that sparked the discussion again. sorry about that
It’s all about the ‘stance’

 

[Defender90]

Funny: this discussion was already silent from February 22; a few days ago I just wanted to know if I already did enough kilometers with our new cali in the first year. And that sparked the discussion again. sorry about that
It’s all about the ‘stance’

It’s all about ground clearance for me it’s ok having a low van if you keep too good roads not so good if you need to leave them.