6.1 2 day hire - initially disappointed, but now ordered!

[Felix]

@PhilR, this might be a bit cheeky, but I think the van we’re currently looking to sell...

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/classi...bus/surrey/vehicles-for-sale-other-campervans

might tick a lot of your boxes. When we decided in 2018 that we wanted to get a campervan, the T6 Cali Ocean was top of our shopping list, however a visit to the Motorhome & Caravan Show opened our eyes to the work of the best converters and that is the route we opted for, we very nearly chose Vanworx (lauded by ABAB) but considered Uberbus’s work marginally superior - slightly better cabinet quality and a lower bed/seat that no other converter offered, which not only slides but can be raised at the back to turn into a chaise-longue. We ended up paying slightly more for it than had we chosen a Cali, but got a better specced van. As for comments about the ride, it’s very refined on the motorway, admittedly it’s fairly harsh over speed bumps and potholes, however this would be improved by reverting to standard wheels and springs, however much ours improve the looks.

We’ve decided to bite the bullet on the depreciation it’s suffered in little more than a year, as we decided that the desire for more space, an on-board washroom and a semi-permanent bed, outweighed all the positives our van offered, so we’re shortly picking up a 5.4m Ducato PVC by Globecar. As a nearly-new purchase it’s an awful lot cheaper than a new Cali, and we’ve seen nothing in the T6.1 that’s an improvement over the T6. Admittedly Surrey might be a bit far away for you but used vans are very thin on the ground at the moment.

 

[OGII]

I'd keep the 16" wheels for a start, that may solve the crashing over rough surfaces, or at least improve it. The seat is more tricky, but I'd think of something (I'd still want decent seat covers due to the light fabric, so maybe I could modify them with a bit of padding at the front).
Added bonus is the manual roof, for long term reliability.

Some good points in your thinking there. The 16 inch wheels don't win style points but they are more forgiving and much less likely to get kerbed.

Many suggestions to add the anti-roll bar, not felt the need myself but it it may help.

For a long term keeper the manual roof is a no brainer.

Seats are more personal, we are all different shapes and sizes. As others have said I climb out of our van after several hours crossing a country and the seats aren't an issue. Being a VW there are loads of seat cover options including some that have padding/ support built in. I bought some from seatcovers.de that transformed the well worn 180,000 mile seats in my last T5, very comfortable. If you want an uncomfortable seat try the standard double bench in the front of a standard Transporter... Wrong angle, no adjustments, grumbling passengers...

 

[Jenny H]

Don't forget the pending price rise of new vehicles from Europe when we exit the EU completely. Somewhere between 10% & 15% as far as I can ascertain!
And who knows what the situation will be re Covid-19 in 2021 and how it will be affecting prices and resale values etc.
We are in the same dilemma, do we keep the T6, do we convert a new T6.1, do we convert a Crafter or do we buy a ready converted of either model?
SWB T6.1 is a definite NO as it doesn't have enough space, elevating roof is also a NO, been there and don't like them.

Do you know if you place an order now if the build time would be pre Brexit & thereby miss both the vehicle rise & import tax ?

 

[willwander]

@PhilR did you camp in it?

 

[jjhogg]

Using man maths Californias don't actually cost anything.

If I didn't have one I would need a sensible car, say a BMW 3 series, depreciation on the last one of those I had was about £6k a year, depreciation on our cali using the worst trade in offer verses what I paid for it comes in at £1700 a year, the cali therefore has saved me £4,300 a year for the last 6 years on that alone.

If we then factor in 4 of us camping say 20 nights per year at £30 per night V £200 for 2x hotel rooms thats another £3,400 a year saved.

I haven't yet put a price on the fun & enjoyment that it has brought, highlights include getting changed out of a freezing cold wet suit in the beach carpark in a warm van with the kettle on.
Playing a family game of cards waiting for the tide to go out at our favourite Modbury beach, the sheer convenience of having a fridge with cold drinks on a hot day when stuck in a traffic jam, I could go on & on.

Then there is the convenience - used as a van for moving kids to Uni. A mobile office.

A car plus hotels cant replace it, A big white motorhome won't go the same places.

You either get it or you don't.

It is my suggestion then that the £70k is actually irrelevant.

Love these man maths Andy. I did a similar business case for our California that results in major Cashback

 

[Wildcamper]

Do you know if you place an order now if the build time would be pre Brexit & thereby miss both the vehicle rise & import tax ?

As far as I understand it any UK tax due is applied the moment the vehicle lands in the UK no matter when it was actually built. Anyone please correct if wrong.

 

[Elizabeth Silman]

Using man maths Californias don't actually cost anything.

If I didn't have one I would need a sensible car, say a BMW 3 series, depreciation on the last one of those I had was about £6k a year, depreciation on our cali using the worst trade in offer verses what I paid for it comes in at £1700 a year, the cali therefore has saved me £4,300 a year for the last 6 years on that alone.

If we then factor in 4 of us camping say 20 nights per year at £30 per night V £200 for 2x hotel rooms thats another £3,400 a year saved.

I haven't yet put a price on the fun & enjoyment that it has brought, highlights include getting changed out of a freezing cold wet suit in the beach carpark in a warm van with the kettle on.
Playing a family game of cards waiting for the tide to go out at our favourite Modbury beach, the sheer convenience of having a fridge with cold drinks on a hot day when stuck in a traffic jam, I could go on & on.

Then there is the convenience - used as a van for moving kids to Uni. A mobile office.

A car plus hotels cant replace it, A big white motorhome won't go the same places.

You either get it or you don't.

It is my suggestion then that the £70k is actually irrelevant.

Hear hear!

 

[Elizabeth Silman]

Love these man maths Andy. I did a similar business case for our California that results in major Cashback

That's the conclusion I came to before I decided to buy van no 3. Wouldn't be without it.

 

[Neil Blackburn]

Some fair points although I like the seats. We didn’t buy a Cali as a van, it’s the lifestyle we bought into so the price is less relevant. I am aware of various issues with the Cali but I would buy the same again. Having lived in Devon and Cornwall for the last 45 years and being a couple of miles from the beach there isn’t really a substitute. If you don’t have the same feeling then it’s not for you. It’s great that you found that out without spending 70k

 

[subthree]

The conclusion we came to was it is a HUGE amount of cash from our savings. However if it doesn't work out for us then we will sell it and, unless the economy tanks, we will lose nothing (very little) in the next 12-24 months.

I bought a new A6 five years ago. List was £45k, paid £36k. I might get £12-13k right now.

After having used our van every day for the last 2-3 weeks I doubt it is going back! Flys along the Autoroute, and we only have the 150ps. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[Harrythecat]

I agree with Andy on this. They hold their value very well, can be used as a day car, skip, or almost anything an estate can do. Interesting about the quality issues PhilR. I've got a T5 which hasn't had any of those issues in 8 years so perhaps the T6's have suffered from cost cutting despite their big price tag? The seats do have limitations but they are van based so that is to be expected I guess. The hard bit is getting them into a comfortable position in the first place after your other half's been in the driving seat but once that's achieved I find them comfortable. As for trips to the dealers other than the 2 year service and the well publicised ®off issues mine's been pretty much fault free.

Good luck with your search

 

[TripleBee]

The seats do have limitations but they are van based so that is to be expected I guess. The hard bit is getting them into a comfortable position in the first place after your other half's been in the driving seat but once that's achieved I find them comfortable.

Not hard for me.
All the way back. Backrest against the cabinet.
No more adjustments to make.

 

[Big Ron]

Hopefully I won't upset too many people on here, but I'm going to share my honest review.....

So, we just spent £270 on hiring a 6.1 Ocean and it has turned out to be money well spent, as we are now not going to have to spend almost £70k on a new one. Why?....

Well, as fantastic as these vehicles are, we weren't overly impressed. Whilst it is great at what it does, as in enabling camping, cooking etc, as a daily driver it didn't do it for us. For a start I just could not get on with the driving position - the seat felt like it was tipping/tilting me forwards ever so slightly and there's no adjustment for the seat base angle. In fact, the only adjustment on the seat is a basic winding handle for the backrest and a fore/aft adjustment. A lumbar adjuster is also there, at least that's what I think it was but you could hardly tell. I think this is really poor on such an expensive vehicle. I would gladly pay extra for additional/electric seat adjustments, but they aren't available as far as I'm aware.
The build quality is questionable too - the side of the drivers seat had a plastic cover which fell off (I used a Torx driver to fix it back on myself), there is a trim piece above the sliding door and this was coming loose, preventing the door window blind fully closing, the AC controls were falling into the dash when pressed, and the rear luggage area cover kept coming off the side locator "pins" - all this on a July 2020 van with just 3000 miles!

Other things putting us off the 6.1 were - seat upholstery marks far too easily, the window blinds felt very cheap and flimsy, the ride was very harsh over poor surfaces which I found surprising as it was only on 17" wheels, the tailgate is awkward to close, the pop-up roof is a bit of a pain to get the canvas to stay out of the way of the sliding roof cover (probably user error though), the passenger seat, as well as the very limited adjustments, does not have a great deal of legroom and the glovebox in front is tiny (probably not just a 6.1 issue), the lag pulling away is not too bad but the "S" mode isn't an option any more sadly, the Discover Pro is a fingerprint magnet, also it is difficult to see/operate from the passenger seat.

I really don't want this post to be all negative, there are loads of things about it that are brilliant, but if we were going to spend this much money it needs to be better. Now I can understand some of the negative comments I've seen on YouTube videos, saying that they are overpriced. I wanted to not believe that, but after I posted on a Facebook group about the rough ride, a few people said to me "what do you expect, it's a van" - yes it is, but a blooming' expensive one! Too expensive for what it is in our opinion.

So, after thinking about this for weeks, reading all the reviews and posts on here, watching all the (positive) YouTube videos, we are now weighing up our options. We're guilty of getting sucked into the exciting world of van life - I guess the YouTube videos are always going to be positive when they are from actual owners. The only negative one I saw was from Matt Watson on one of those car review channels and he wasn't impressed, but we just thought he didn't get the whole point....maybe he didn't, but we wanted to find out for ourselves.

So, we could get an older one or a conversion, but we're also thinking of not bothering at all and hiring one when we want to do a trip. The main use of the vehicle would be going back and forth to Wales from the Midlands, as we have a place there. So 90% of the usage would be doing that. Yes it would be fabulous for days out and the odd overnight stay, but that's not going to be a common thing. We also fancy touring Europe for a couple of weeks each year, but for that I'd be tempted to hire a full size motorhome maybe.

Apologies once again for being rather negative, I know you are all Cali fans (obviously). Maybe it's just the 6.1 that's the issue, what with it's price, long lead times, possible 10% tax issue.......

Thanks for all the information and replies to my previous questions on here, you have all been a great help, especially those that told me to hire before I buy - excellent advice!!

PhilR, much of what you say is either factually true or your view of things (your truth) after having tried it.
As a vehicle it is noisy, squeaky, not very well built and with awful(Van) suspension....and it is a ridiculous price. So I tend to agree with you.
It does however give you access to scenery and experiences that other Types of vehicle don’t, and that is where it shines.
Everyone will balance these (and other) things off differently won’t they? Good luck to you in what you decide is right for you Phil. Interest post !

 

[Erem]

PhilR, go for an older one T5.1 with a DSG gearbox and comfort seats. GrannyJen must be about to upgraded hers again. lol

 

[Jenny H]

As far as I understand it any UK tax due is applied the moment the vehicle lands in the UK no matter when it was actually built. Anyone please correct if wrong.

Thank you that sounds correct - so anybody know how many weeks build wait time is?!

 

[GrannyJen]

PhilR, go for an older one T5.1 with a DSG gearbox and comfort seats. GrannyJen must be about to upgraded hers again. lol

How did you guess?

Indeed I may be about to do that

 

[Hotel California]

@PhilR did you camp in it?

Let's hope so...

In the end a Cali is luxuery product and as always the amout money spent on something needs to be justified . One person can , another might have more trouble with spending his money .
Myself i would not by a new T6.1 at current prices . I think VW are over the top with those price.
Beeing a happy T5 owner i can do everything what could do in a T6.1 so why spent the cash.

 

[69 Campers]

A lengthy review that bemoans many features that have existed with the California from the T5 days, dare I ask what the weather was doing, presume peeing it down as you wrote your frustration on to the forum

I have to say having owned and rented from the T5 era through to the current T6 I could sense your annoyance if you have followed this path ????

To jump into a T6.1 an Ocean and lambast the poor fellow must of been you first and only foray into the camping car market ?

The interior is pretty much standard across the Coast, Ocean and Edition a few tweaks on the T6.1, cupboard doors, lightings, wood effect floor at a cost is the only change we will see over its existence probably until 2025 which is rubbish to be honest VW !!!

However, the new finger touch control panel (put your white gloves on ) is a great new option along with the digital dash and new improved radio screen does bring a smile to the face

Then the dash from the transporter (don't forget your clipboard and coffee flask) and door cards, its a rollercoaster of high and lows for me with the new T6.1 but overall what you get compared to other camping cars is second to none, the depreciation levels and the fact you have achieved owning a California is a momentous moment in itself !!

Driving styles and individual body ergonomics are always going to cause a conversation of good vs bad, but overall I have no concerns we all ache after a long run..... Electric seats as we know are a great option but until VW lengthen the wiring looms to the turn the damn things 180° then we are stuck in the 1980's of backwards and forwards effectively

How long before the T6.1 will evolve into the T7 (Electric) will be fascinating to see, if price was an issue before then I'd walk away now...... I can't see it being less than 85K with a decent return and distance per charge which needs to be 400km at best but thats another conversation

 

[Scott and Linda]

Hopefully I won't upset too many people on here, but I'm going to share my honest review.....

So, we just spent £270 on hiring a 6.1 Ocean and it has turned out to be money well spent, as we are now not going to have to spend almost £70k on a new one. Why?....

Well, as fantastic as these vehicles are, we weren't overly impressed. Whilst it is great at what it does, as in enabling camping, cooking etc, as a daily driver it didn't do it for us. For a start I just could not get on with the driving position - the seat felt like it was tipping/tilting me forwards ever so slightly and there's no adjustment for the seat base angle. In fact, the only adjustment on the seat is a basic winding handle for the backrest and a fore/aft adjustment. A lumbar adjuster is also there, at least that's what I think it was but you could hardly tell. I think this is really poor on such an expensive vehicle. I would gladly pay extra for additional/electric seat adjustments, but they aren't available as far as I'm aware.
The build quality is questionable too - the side of the drivers seat had a plastic cover which fell off (I used a Torx driver to fix it back on myself), there is a trim piece above the sliding door and this was coming loose, preventing the door window blind fully closing, the AC controls were falling into the dash when pressed, and the rear luggage area cover kept coming off the side locator "pins" - all this on a July 2020 van with just 3000 miles!

Other things putting us off the 6.1 were - seat upholstery marks far too easily, the window blinds felt very cheap and flimsy, the ride was very harsh over poor surfaces which I found surprising as it was only on 17" wheels, the tailgate is awkward to close, the pop-up roof is a bit of a pain to get the canvas to stay out of the way of the sliding roof cover (probably user error though), the passenger seat, as well as the very limited adjustments, does not have a great deal of legroom and the glovebox in front is tiny (probably not just a 6.1 issue), the lag pulling away is not too bad but the "S" mode isn't an option any more sadly, the Discover Pro is a fingerprint magnet, also it is difficult to see/operate from the passenger seat.

I really don't want this post to be all negative, there are loads of things about it that are brilliant, but if we were going to spend this much money it needs to be better. Now I can understand some of the negative comments I've seen on YouTube videos, saying that they are overpriced. I wanted to not believe that, but after I posted on a Facebook group about the rough ride, a few people said to me "what do you expect, it's a van" - yes it is, but a blooming' expensive one! Too expensive for what it is in our opinion.

So, after thinking about this for weeks, reading all the reviews and posts on here, watching all the (positive) YouTube videos, we are now weighing up our options. We're guilty of getting sucked into the exciting world of van life - I guess the YouTube videos are always going to be positive when they are from actual owners. The only negative one I saw was from Matt Watson on one of those car review channels and he wasn't impressed, but we just thought he didn't get the whole point....maybe he didn't, but we wanted to find out for ourselves.

So, we could get an older one or a conversion, but we're also thinking of not bothering at all and hiring one when we want to do a trip. The main use of the vehicle would be going back and forth to Wales from the Midlands, as we have a place there. So 90% of the usage would be doing that. Yes it would be fabulous for days out and the odd overnight stay, but that's not going to be a common thing. We also fancy touring Europe for a couple of weeks each year, but for that I'd be tempted to hire a full size motorhome maybe.

Apologies once again for being rather negative, I know you are all Cali fans (obviously). Maybe it's just the 6.1 that's the issue, what with it's price, long lead times, possible 10% tax issue.......

Thanks for all the information and replies to my previous questions on here, you have all been a great help, especially those that told me to hire before I buy - excellent advice!!
[/QUOTE

Using man maths Californias don't actually cost anything.

If I didn't have one I would need a sensible car, say a BMW 3 series, depreciation on the last one of those I had was about £6k a year, depreciation on our cali using the worst trade in offer verses what I paid for it comes in at £1700 a year, the cali therefore has saved me £4,300 a year for the last 6 years on that alone.

If we then factor in 4 of us camping say 20 nights per year at £30 per night V £200 for 2x hotel rooms thats another £3,400 a year saved.

I haven't yet put a price on the fun & enjoyment that it has brought, highlights include getting changed out of a freezing cold wet suit in the beach carpark in a warm van with the kettle on.
Playing a family game of cards waiting for the tide to go out at our favourite Modbury beach, the sheer convenience of having a fridge with cold drinks on a hot day when stuck in a traffic jam, I could go on & on.

Then there is the convenience - used as a van for moving kids to Uni. A mobile office.

A car plus hotels cant replace it, A big white motorhome won't go the same places.

You either get it or you don't.

It is my suggestion then that the £70k is actually irrelevant.

We have just taken delivery of our Cali 6 1 Ocean 4 Motion and we absolutely love it, the DSG box and drive is fantastic, effortless! I have owned many new good quality vehicles over my 50 years of driving (our first camper van) best think Linda and I have driven. Yes there are a few annoying rattles in the kitchen area (in for warranty - 4 years given) and no doubt there will be a few other things but even Rolls Royce, BMW, Range Rover have problems and look how much they cost eh! Sounds like you hired one was not the best! Clearly a Cali is not for you, good luck in your search for perfection, but believe me it is not out there...

 

[Sean Power]

Am I the only one that thinks the seats are brilliant? Did 14 hours in the drivers seat two weeks ago & could easily have sat there for another couple. In contrast I could never get fully comfortable in my Discoveries with however many way electric adjustments & ditto the last 911 I had, also with multiple buttons & features both had me aching after a couple of hours.

If you think the drive of a California is bad, I hope you are not expecting much when you try a full size motorhome.

No, you’re not the only one who thinks the seats are comfortable. My Cali is my daily driver and the furthest i’ve driven in it in one go was Cleethorpes to Inverness and I must admit i find them comfortable

 

[Hotel California]

@69 Campers , when i mentiont the new control panel to the saleman at my specialised VW California dealer , it sure did not bring a smile on his face....
Many random issues that accure out of the blue , lots of running threads on this forum to comfirm this .
i've been playing with one in a demo Cali just recent and imo there are some useless features added .

 

[PhilR]

Total quote Phil I got for the Coast with some expensive options added, £54,954, the parking heater is standard in the Coast.

Paint - Metallic - Starlight Blue : Starlight Blue - GBP 762.00
Upholstery - Cloth - Titanium Black - GBP 0.00
Climatronic 3-Zone A-C with 2nd Evaporator - Auxiliary Heater - Air Conditioned Headliner and Additional Passenger Control - GBP 990.00
Digital Cockpit and Driver Alert System - GBP 468.00
Navigation System Discover Media including Streaming and Internet - GBP 1338.00
Park Assist and Park Distance Control in Front and Rear and Sensor-Based Side Protection - GBP 342.00
Rear View Camera System - Static Lines - GBP 294.00
Bellow Colour of Pop-Up Roof - Basalt Grey - GBP 270.00
Power Sliding Door on the Right in Load-Passenger Compartment - GBP 378.00
Interior Lighting System Camper with Lighting in Pop-up Roof - Tailgate and in Kitchen Cupboards - GBP 726.00

As a side note Phil I idley priced up a Kombi Transporter, adding all the options you get as standard on the Ocean, got to£51k without the kitchen, pop up roof, beds, chairs in the tailgate etc
As another note, I was on a fairly generous company car allowance for years so got into the habit of PCP. Currently paying £336 pm for a Merc, for an extra £160 pm I am flitting to an Ocean and I am retiring.
 

Thanks Wogga. That is a better price straight away. I could work with that! It's certainly becoming more and more of an option. Like I've said a few times, I still want a Cali if possible.

 

[PhilR]

...Obviously a normal camper is more stuff for the money, but you surely must have known that before?

Yes I did know that, I have actually spent months researching but because of Covid and then the poor availability of Calis I haven't been able to try one until this week.

 

[PhilR]

Hey Phil

You definitely lucked out with your hire vehicle. We bought our high spec'd T6 Cali off the back of hiring 2 conversions and then 2 Cali's.

The Cali's were a cut above the conversions we had and felt a much higher quality with better fit and finish, which ultimately helped with our decision. We certainly didn't experience loose fittings or anything coming away inside the cabin and everything worked just fine.

In fact the last Cali we hired, we hired for a month last year. It had been hired out only twice before us and we hired it with only 1200 miles on the clock. It was a high spec 4motion 199 Cali registered in June last year with part leather and alacantara interior which seemed to up the feeling of comfort in the cabin. We were so impressed that we bought it off the hire company after hiring it again longer term and haven't regretted it one bit.

I was quite alarmed at hearing your experience with a new T6.1.As plenty have mentioned above there must have been something not right with that particular vehicle.

The T6.1 Cali with its various tweaks ought to be at least on a par with a T6 for quality if not an improvement you would think. So it's baffling and disappointing to me to hear this.

If it's still an itch (a big one at that!) I'd whole heartedly recommend visiting one of the countless caravan and motorhome shows when next they're on. We did and again, it helped us no end. I know you could be waiting a while but it might be a good thing to take some more time to consider your options.

Despite your disappointment, keeping looking and keep us informed. Good luck!

Thanks. Yeah it is becoming quite clear now that the one we hired was a little bit problematic, which is a shame.
We had booked tickets to Weston Park tomorrow as there's a camper festival going on, so we're still going to go and have a look around.

 

[PhilR]

I agree with your points Phil.

Did you get ACC on you hire van? It makes a lot of difference to the seat comfort as you don’t need your feet on the pedals so it is much easier to get comfortable with the limited legroom. Also the point on the 215 tyres is correct, we tested one with 215’s which run at high pressure and they felt harsh so ordered 235 all season tyres on our 150.

We bought new but if I had my time again I’d be tempted to by a much older van. Reason being I found myself worrying/stressing about it too much, where I park it, kids spilling stuff on the seats etc. Also slightly shonky build, crude ride Etc., might be annoying if you are spending 70k, but actually becomes part of the charm of an older vehicle.

Yes it had ACC, it is brilliant, we have that on our Passat along with lane assist, but that wasn't as effective on the Cali.
Your last paragraph sums it up well. However, due to used values a new Coast is certainly a consideration....