Bigger vans

[kave]

I've looked at the Yukon, they're owned by Frankia who I know make ultra luxury motorhomes not seen any of their vans. I have seen the £250k Hymer Venture and it's the motorhome equivalent of a yacht!

There are some Sprinter & Crafter conversions out there for north of £150k but I put that down to a bespoke build rather than van for your money. But of the more established converters Hymer seem to have have the most expensive conversions. As a relative newcomer, I'm not sure whether the adage of you get what you pay for applies, but most I've seen are over £115k

The Hymer Grand Canyon FB pages are full of people complaining about lack of insulation in the Grand Canyon, rattling, bad quality etc. It starts to mold even due to its lack of insulation.
What I have found is that the Yucon is insulated but I might have got it wrong.
I think the Innova Roadtrip is much more yacht like and a completely different level:

A yacht on wheels | Innova Roadtrip

Innova Roadtrip, Experience luxury and adventure in tandem with the Roadtrip 595L. Designed in collaboration with Mercedes-Benz by Innova, a Dutch yacht outfitter, this premium camper offers a unique blend of comfort, luxury, and safety. Embrace the feeling of a yacht-styled lounge on wheels for...

innovaroadtrip.com

The Kabe Van is another more expensive version and is insulated properly https://www.kabe.se/se/husbilar/van/kabe-van-690-lb-2wd/#kabevan690lb2wd
The Dovra is more epensive etc etc https://dovra.com/sv/

 

[Corradobrit]

I think the Innova Roadtrip is much more yacht like and a completely different level:

A yacht on wheels | Innova Roadtrip

Innova Roadtrip, Experience luxury and adventure in tandem with the Roadtrip 595L. Designed in collaboration with Mercedes-Benz by Innova, a Dutch yacht outfitter, this premium camper offers a unique blend of comfort, luxury, and safety. Embrace the feeling of a yacht-styled lounge on wheels for...

innovaroadtrip.com

Those wheels look comically small

 

[Barry Chuckle]

The Hymer Grand Canyon FB pages are full of people complaining about lack of insulation in the Grand Canyon, rattling, bad quality etc. It starts to mold even due to its lack of insulation.
What I have found is that the Yucon is insulated but I might have got it wrong.
I think the Innova Roadtrip is much more yacht like and a completely different level:

A yacht on wheels | Innova Roadtrip

Innova Roadtrip, Experience luxury and adventure in tandem with the Roadtrip 595L. Designed in collaboration with Mercedes-Benz by Innova, a Dutch yacht outfitter, this premium camper offers a unique blend of comfort, luxury, and safety. Embrace the feeling of a yacht-styled lounge on wheels for...

innovaroadtrip.com

The Kabe Van is another more expensive version and is insulated properly https://www.kabe.se/se/husbilar/van/kabe-van-690-lb-2wd/#kabevan690lb2wd
The Dovra is more epensive etc etc https://dovra.com/sv/

Thanks for that insight Kave, I've never heard of either tbh, but they do look really nice. Not sure if you can get them in the UK?

 

[Wondering Star]

As an owner of a of a Hymer Grand Canyon S, I can speak with some authority and hopefully can put your mind at rest.
Firstly, lets be honest here, going on any FB group including this one and you will read of problems, upgrades and modifications.
You are correct in saying GCS lacks insulation, however this has been modified on the new model year. It is however relatively easy to insulate areas of concern if required but to be honest I've never found it a problem as I don't camp in minus -10 °
The main area of concern is the area above the cab which can cause water droplets to short the control panel. Remove headliner, add 19mm of insulation and refit, again rear door panels remove easily and its a simple job to insulate if you really need it.
As mentioned its not been a problem for me and to be frank its about as well insulated as a California.
As for mold this is normally caused by lack of ventilation in the poptop void over winter and the storing of the aluminium ladder.
Unlike the Cali when the roof is closed all bedding and ladder can be left inplace, if the ladder is left in cold temperatures condensation forms on the ladder and mould develops. Regular venting stops this issue.
I to looked at the Frankia at the Nec, in my view the build quality of furniture is poor as previously mentioned the placement of stickers to cover cabinet screws is unacceptable when spending 135k, I'd seen enough after 5 minutes it just looked poor quality-see below.

3 1/2 years with the Hymer my only problem has been a faulty micro switch on the kitchen tap and one broken cupboard hinge (operator error).
More than happy with the brand, I believe its good value, in 2020 with no discount the van cost 79k fully loaded, around 110k today.
I've since spent around 15k in modifications plus next month plan to have upgraded front and rear shockers fitted in Germany.
My biggest disappointment has been the Mercedes dealership that maintains the van and the high cost of servicing.
The supplying dealer Campersales Burgess Hill were excellent.

 

[Corradobrit]

Campervan Time have just collected their Sven Hedin after a 361 day wait. Look forward to following their adventures in the bigger platform.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Campervan Time have just collected their Sven Hedin after a 361 day wait. Look forward to following their adventures in the bigger platform.

I watched all their posts on the Cali as the best reference point I could find. So glad they're now going to do the same with the Sven as there is very little content about it to be found....

 

[soulstyledevon]

Campervan Time have just collected their Sven Hedin after a 361 day wait. Look forward to following their adventures in the bigger platform.

Surprised the windows don’t have internal blinds. Never noticed that, when I saw one at the show last year. That would be a bit of a deal breaker.
Bit odd, Westfalia didn’t consider this.

 

[kave]

As an owner of a of a Hymer Grand Canyon S, I can speak with some authority and hopefully can put your mind at rest.
Firstly, lets be honest here, going on any FB group including this one and you will read of problems, upgrades and modifications.
You are correct in saying GCS lacks insulation, however this has been modified on the new model year. It is however relatively easy to insulate areas of concern if required but to be honest I've never found it a problem as I don't camp in minus -10 °
The main area of concern is the area above the cab which can cause water droplets to short the control panel. Remove headliner, add 19mm of insulation and refit, again rear door panels remove easily and its a simple job to insulate if you really need it.
As mentioned its not been a problem for me and to be frank its about as well insulated as a California.
As for mold this is normally caused by lack of ventilation in the poptop void over winter and the storing of the aluminium ladder.
Unlike the Cali when the roof is closed all bedding and ladder can be left inplace, if the ladder is left in cold temperatures condensation forms on the ladder and mould develops. Regular venting stops this issue.
I to looked at the Frankia at the Nec, in my view the build quality of furniture is poor as previously mentioned the placement of stickers to cover cabinet screws is unacceptable when spending 135k, I'd seen enough after 5 minutes it just looked poor quality-see below.

3 1/2 years with the Hymer my only problem has been a faulty micro switch on the kitchen tap and one broken cupboard hinge (operator error).
More than happy with the brand, I believe its good value, in 2020 with no discount the van cost 79k fully loaded, around 110k today.
I've since spent around 15k in modifications plus next month plan to have upgraded front and rear shockers fitted in Germany.
My biggest disappointment has been the Mercedes dealership that maintains the van and the high cost of servicing.
The supplying dealer Campersales Burgess Hill were excellent.

View attachment 120385

To me its all fake wood anyway which I dislike, even in the Hymer. I have seen neither in person but I find the possibility of having longitudinal beds in the 7m Yucon tempting as well as a pop top roof with a sun roof even when roof is closed. The Hymer has a great hype and it probably deserve it but it has led to a price increase that is a bit too much for me. Between my23 and my24 base prices went up from 85.000€ to 120.000€ which is way to much for me for what I get. I realize its great for current owners.

 

[soulstyledevon]

To me its all fake wood anyway which I dislike, even in the Hymer. I have seen neither in person but I find the possibility of having longitudinal beds in the 7m Yucon tempting as well as a pop top roof with a sun roof even when roof is closed. The Hymer has a great hype and it probably deserve it but it has led to a price increase that is a bit too much for me. Between my23 and my24 base prices went up from 85.000€ to 120.000€ which is way to much for me for what I get. I realize its great for current owners.

I think it’s the price of all vans. They’re all absolutely bonkers.
I came close to having a bespoke build, but the price was around £125k for a 2wd conversion. Also, that price was an estimate, therefore I assume it would be a bit more depending on final finishing touches…

The Hymer I have on order, isn’t perfect (nothing is) but meets the majority of what I need and a much lower cost. I think I’m in and driving at £92k. Which again, seems excessive for a van, but that’s where the market is.

 

[Corradobrit]

Surprised the windows don’t have internal blinds. Never noticed that, when I saw one at the show last year. That would be a bit of a deal breaker.
Bit odd, Westfalia didn’t consider this.

Yes, surprising. Personally I would just get a set of bespoke Project Camper cockpit thermal covers for the TGE for 267 Euro and be very happy.

 

[rod_vw]

I think it’s the price of all vans. They’re all absolutely bonkers.
I came close to having a bespoke build, but the price was around £125k for a 2wd conversion. Also, that price was an estimate, therefore I assume it would be a bit more depending on final finishing touches…

The Hymer I have on order, isn’t perfect (nothing is) but meets the majority of what I need and a much lower cost. I think I’m in and driving at £92k. Which again, seems excessive for a van, but that’s where the market is.

I totally agree about the price, especially of having a bespoke conversion built. I've just done it!

However the retail price of the components is one of the root causes of this.

For example...

Base vehicle at a reasonably high spec (I'm going on my MAN TGE) circa £60,000
Light weight ply for furniture - circa £175 per 8ft x 4ft sheet (you would need more than five)
80litre compressor fridge - circa £840
Dometic hob with two rings & tap etc - circa £300 plus
Truma d4e heater/boiler - circa £1775

I won't even start on the basic electrics, solar panels, lithium battery(s), flooring, insulation, windows, roof vents, water tanks, shower base, toilet, shower cubical etc. etc.

Then there is the manhours of building it and for a bespoke conversion these are a lot!

It all adds up to an eyewatering figure.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I completely concur with all the comments above about the prices, whilst I do appreciate underlying costs have gone up I think it's being overly charitable to the converters. It's been a buyers market over the past few years so the industry has inevitably profiteered and put up prices by as much as they think people will pay.

A bespoke conversion is always likely to be more expensive due to economies of scale. But bear in mind that the mainstream converters are going to get the donor vehicles at at least 20% below retail due to the volumes they commit to.

I think most people realise that whilst RV's are still very desirable they're still overpriced. I regularly look on Autotrader at Sprinter & VW/MAN conversions and the vast majority have been sitting unsold for around 6 months, even price drops hasn't shifted them. For example there's several Globe Traveller Falcon conversions at over £120k an example of a ridiculous price for a van that is of questionable value. I do think prices will have to and will drop somewhat over the next 12 months for those prepared to wait a little longer.

To give some perspective a higher end Sprinter or VW coversion costs roughly the same a 12 month old Bentley, completely unsustainable prices IMO.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

... And I do appreciate that I've contradicted my own advice above order a new Sven Hedin, but Westfalia have me over a barrel, either I order at their prices or don't get one. £92k for a MAN conversion is still silly money in my view but not as crazy as some

 

[ArunAlec]

Surprised the windows don’t have internal blinds. Never noticed that, when I saw one at the show last year. That would be a bit of a deal breaker.
Bit odd, Westfalia didn’t consider this.

Which windows are don’t have blinds?

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Which windows are don’t have blinds?

From my understanding it's only the windscreen & drivers & passengers windows that don't have blinds?

The habitation area widows I think have blinds.

 

[ArunAlec]

From my understanding it's only the windscreen & drivers & passengers windows that don't have blinds?

The habitation area widows I think have blinds.

Looking at the video etc I agree. Basically the same set up as the Joker .

 

[The Merle]

I completely concur with all the comments above about the prices, whilst I do appreciate underlying costs have gone up I think it's being overly charitable to the converters. It's been a buyers market over the past few years so the industry has inevitably profiteered and put up prices by as much as they think people will pay.

A bespoke conversion is always likely to be more expensive due to economies of scale. But bear in mind that the mainstream converters are going to get the donor vehicles at at least 20% below retail due to the volumes they commit to.

I think most people realise that whilst RV's are still very desirable they're still overpriced. I regularly look on Autotrader at Sprinter & VW/MAN conversions and the vast majority have been sitting unsold for around 6 months, even price drops hasn't shifted them. For example there's several Globe Traveller Falcon conversions at over £120k an example of a ridiculous price for a van that is of questionable value. I do think prices will have to and will drop somewhat over the next 12 months for those prepared to wait a little longer.

To give some perspective a higher end Sprinter or VW coversion costs roughly the same a 12 month old Bentley, completely unsustainable prices IMO.

Already happening on base vans. VW crafter 4motion pre reg was £54500+vat now 49990+vat about 4price drops! Plus the grey 4motion I nearly bought was £51990+vat dropped to £49990 and dealer keeps calling offering more discount best is £48990 now.
Top spec MAN 4motion just come on £46995+vat has swivel seats too.
The vw beach calis I’ve had an eye on all sold, but had a good price so Calis doing ok.
Brand new Calis appearing at dealers with good discount too, so it is all changing definitely a buyers market finally.

 

[The Merle]

... And I do appreciate that I've contradicted my own advice above order a new Sven Hedin, but Westfalia have me over a barrel, either I order at their prices or don't get one. £92k for a MAN conversion is still silly money in my view but not as crazy as some

Nice 2nd hand one at wandahomes £80k nearly new nice saving and you won’t have to wait a year

 

[Corradobrit]

Nice 2nd hand one at wandahomes £80k nearly new nice saving and you won’t have to wait a year

Is it flannel, 2 careful owners plus their shaggy dog?

 

[The Merle]

Is it flannel, 2 careful owners plus their shaggy dog?

Nice black one.
Cant watch there YouTube not my thing, I’m sure lots find it good though.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Nice 2nd hand one at wandahomes £80k nearly new nice saving and you won’t have to wait a year

Thanks for the post , I only spotted this myself yesterday as their website isn't the best. Did give me a bit of a quandary as it's also £15k less than a new one!

The dealer is 'confident' I'll get delivery late May/Early June so I'm prepared for that wait, also they're only warrantied for 2 years from new so I lose much of that buying a 2022 model. But of course many on this site have already warned me it'll likely be a much longer wait than that.....

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Nice black one.
Cant watch there YouTube not my thing, I’m sure lots find it good though.

Carbon copy of the one I've on order, the only thing I'm unsure of is the 16 inch steel wheels. But if you buy the upgraded ones for £3,000 you also get the 16 inch ones too. Ie they don't just charge you for the difference in cost which puts me off these.

 

[Corradobrit]

Thanks for the post , I only spotted this myself yesterday as their website isn't the best. Did give me a bit of a quandary as it's also £15k less than a new one!

And available without the 1 year wait

 

[Mr T]

Nice 2nd hand one at wandahomes £80k nearly new nice saving and you won’t have to wait a year

Would that be on a Crafter rather than MAN in 2022?

 

[soulstyledevon]

Which windows are don’t have blinds?

I believe the front set of windows.
Bit disappointing from a big name like Westfalia.
Without doubt one of the plus points on my old van, when parking roadside.