Bigger vans

[Corradobrit]

Deposit paid.
Trying another Hymer. The Volkswagen 5 plus offer (Ocean or Surf)was very tempting. But the wife really loved the Hymer camping experience far more than our old Transporter days.
I toyed with a converted Crafter but the base vans are £63k then conversion costs on top.

So the Free 600s had more appeal and possibly better residuals if it doesn’t work out.

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Good choice. This is exactly what I would go for if I get to the point of wanting a bigger Campervan with a few more luxuries.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Good choice. This is exactly what I would go for if I get to the point of wanting a bigger Campervan with a few more luxuries.

It still feels like a Campervan, it’s not perfect has its comprises like anything, but overall I feel like it’s a decent package.
Has lots of toys like the California, such as lane keeping assist, apple carplay and comfortable chairs. But also, external gas point, thermal blanket and diesel heater.
But most importantly, it’s not a bl0ody Fiat…!!!

I’m sure if Volkswagen made a Grand California with a pop-top it would appeal to lots of family campers.

 

[Calimili]

It still feels like a Campervan, it’s not perfect has its comprises like anything, but overall I feel like it’s a decent package.
Has lots of toys like the California, such as lane keeping assist, apple carplay and comfortable chairs. But also, external gas point, thermal blanket and diesel heater.
But most importantly, it’s not a bl0ody Fiat…!!!

I’m sure if Volkswagen made a Grand California with a pop-top it would appeal to lots of family campers.

I'm looking at bigger vans too, like I think you said, at some point the daughter might want a bit more privacy when using a portapotti..
What I'm struggling with is the weight. These bigger vans are extremely heavy, i.e. even less cargo than a Cali as I absolutely want to stay within the 3,5t . If I configure or take into account the stuff i have in the Cali which i want in a new van too, like pop up roof, spare full size wheel, automatic gearbox, trailer hitch and big diesel tank i would be well north of 3100 Kg. And in the Cali i'd still have the 4 Motion too, which would throw a Mercedes van as well as a MAN/VW beyond 3,5t.

Tough one. But very nice van, the Free 600, no questions, especially on the mercedes chassis. Would you be so kind to tell me please, if you know, how would the grey water tank be heated? electrically or via the diesel heater ? thx

 

[soulstyledevon]

I’m not 100%, can confirm after handover. But I would guess from the Truma diesel heater system.

The 4x4 versions are very nice. But you need a C1 license as I believe they’re 4.1t.
Plus, add another £35k-45k depending on spec.

I decided, with the price of a new Cali at just over £75k it was worth the extra for this van.

 

[Calimili]

I’m not 100%, can confirm after handover. But I would guess from the Truma diesel heater system.

The 4x4 versions are very nice. But you need a C1 license as I believe they’re 4.1t.
Plus, add another £35k-45k depending on spec.

I decided, with the price of a new Cali at just over £75k it was worth the extra for this van.

The problem is not only the C1 license. The problem is driving 100km/h on the autobahn , 80 km/h on major roads. Many roads closed to vehicles above 3,5t. Much higher costs on toll roads, in some cases twice as much. At least here in EU much more frequent MOTs and more frequent license renewals medical tests. Basically a PITA. So I'd rather give up the 4x4....

 

[kave]

Congrats, i am sure you will be more happy driving the Sprinter than the Fiat. I tried sitting in one and I (with my 186cm) just look into the roof.
How are the beds? On the Grand Canyon S it seems they no longer have the bed with springs, like the Frankia Yucon. I can't find it as an option in the Hymer configurator for the Free S600.

 

[Calimili]

I don't understand the hate for the Ducato. I am happy to accept that the Mercedes drives better, although i think in terms of power and smoothness the 180hp 9GAuto Fiat and the 170hp Auto Mercedes are probably very similar. I didn't test any of them, but I know a lot of people who are really positively surprised by the new Ducato 8. "It drives like a car" they say, a comment which I personally find inappropriate even when talking about a T6 Cali. But that's what they say.
It depends also a lot on the chassis if Light or Heavy, Heavy being a lot better not only in stability but also in terms of brake power.
Is the Merc better ? it is a genuine question, as I haven't driven both side by side in the high hp+auto+heavy chassis configuration, so I can't personally judge.
One distinct difference though is the cabin and habitation width. Especially the cabin is a lot roomier in the Ducato,as it is more "squared" .
This is particularly noticeable with the side windows front blinds: in the Sprinter they protrude into the cabin a bit and they impede a natural place for the arm/elbow to rest. This is not the case in the Ducato. On the other hand I am confident the Merc cabin is acoustically better insulated from outside and motor noise. Probably better aerodynamically too, with a longer front nose/ bonnet, at the cost of slightly less space in the habitation for the same length van, compared to the Ducato.
As for looks it's a personal choice, but Mercedes as a brand enjoys certainly a better image than Fiat, no way around that.

 

[soulstyledevon]

The downstairs bed is slats and the upstairs Poptop is Froli.
The wife couldn’t bare the thought of going back to a California bed. The Hymer was far superior for sleeping comfort. I must admit too, the Poptop in the Hymer was more comfortable, even without Froli.

As for the Ducato. I’m not sure why people like it…? I honestly believe it’s an older generation that praise it.

Agree, the overall dimensions were what originally persuaded me. The gearbox and satnav was an improvement and pretty decent. But every other aspect of the vehicle, I absolutely hated, and could never get comfortable in the drivers chair.

I will do a full report once I’ve had time in the Mercedes, late Spring

 

[Billylou]

I like the Ducato although don’t love it. Having said that it is much much better than I thought it’d be and dare I say it but I find it comfortable. We’ve driven 10k miles since March this year and I can’t complain. I guess I’d say since moving into Motorhomes/touring I’m much more interested in habitation space and liveable functionality than I am the chassis as we are away for at least six months a year. Don‘t get me wrong I’d rather a Merc than a Fiat but as you know Ducato chassis and their converters are most likely to offer what we and most Motorhomers want. We are continuing to find the “right” van and are moving onto our fourth since selling our Cali. We hope to pick up our Frankia in March which we are paying silly money for and it’s still on a Ducato! I hope and pray we’ve got it right this time. If we come back to a PVC it’d most likely be the Yukon or a Hymer like yours. I’m confident (@soulstyledevon) you’ve made a great choice.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Sorry to hate on your new van. It just wasn’t for me…
I’m sure, if you’re happy with your current Ducato the new one will be a lovely upgrade. The auto-box is very good and the extra space is definitely a plus point

 

[Billylou]

Sorry to hate on your new van. It just wasn’t for me…
I’m sure, if you’re happy with your current Ducato the new one will be a lovely upgrade. The auto-box is very good and the extra space is definitely a plus point

That’s OK no need to say that. I think you’ll notice a big difference space wise with the extra length. We went from a 540 to a 6m and it felt like we’d doubled in size. Pleased that you’ve stuck with a PVC, enjoy.

 

[Wondering Star]

I'm looking at bigger vans too, like I think you said, at some point the daughter might want a bit more privacy when using a portapotti..
What I'm struggling with is the weight. These bigger vans are extremely heavy, i.e. even less cargo than a Cali as I absolutely want to stay within the 3,5t . If I configure or take into account the stuff i have in the Cali which i want in a new van too, like pop up roof, spare full size wheel, automatic gearbox, trailer hitch and big diesel tank i would be well north of 3100 Kg. And in the Cali i'd still have the 4 Motion too, which would throw a Mercedes van as well as a MAN/VW beyond 3,5t.

Tough one. But very nice van, the Free 600, no questions, especially on the mercedes chassis. Would you be so kind to tell me please, if you know, how would the grey water tank be heated? electrically or via the diesel heater ? thx

Earlier vehicles had electrically heated waste tank, new vehicles have ducted air from diesel heater.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Earlier vehicles had electrically heated waste tank, new vehicles have ducted air from diesel heater.

Quick one.
Can you run the diesel heater whilst the vehicle is moving. I’m thinking during winter and travelling from one location to another, I would potentially keep the diesel heater running. Especially in places like the Alps during winter season…?

 

[Wondering Star]

Not used it myself when travelling but Truma Combi D6E can be used when driving.
Additional altitude kit required for long periods of operation at altitudes of 1500-2750m
According to the manual, always check the manual- heater is not to be used when refuelling or in enclosed car parks, in garages or on ferries.
Do not let fuel supply drop to the 'low fuel' mark.
Personally I always keep tank about 1/4 when using diesel heating.
A low tank risks air being drawn into system.
Goes without saying to not cover exhaust flue cover on out side of vehicle.

Great heater, totally reliable. 6kw gives out plenty of heat.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I’m looking forward to returning to a diesel heater. The gas system on my last van was fine and silent in operation, but there’s always the hassle of refilling/exchanging bottles, plus the additional storage and weight.
I’ve read somewhere all Truma D6E from mid 2023 come supplied as standard with the altitude kit.

 

[Wondering Star]

You may have read this, some worth while improvements.
Especially reduced power consumption, reason why I changed over to lithium as older unit is power hungry.
Not sure when this unit will be fitted to Hymer vans?

Truma introduces the 'Combi D - next generation' - Aboutcamp BtoB

Truma has launched the next generation of its “Combi D” models which offer weight savings of up to 3.4 kg plus a variety of 'optimisations'.

www.aboutcampbtob.eu

 

[Calimili]

I’m looking forward to returning to a diesel heater. The gas system on my last van was fine and silent in operation, but there’s always the hassle of refilling/exchanging bottles, plus the additional storage and weight.
I’ve read somewhere all Truma D6E from mid 2023 come supplied as standard with the altitude kit.

A diesel heather can certainly be run whilst driving, and there is the same provision as in the Cali, that when fuel is too low, it stops working so you can always start the vehicle and have enough fuel to reach a petrol station.
A gas truma can also be run while driving, provided a crash sensor has been installed, this blocks the gas supply in the event of an accident. It is actually more to be able to operate the big fridge whilst en-route, as in a hot summer day, a big fridge-freezer won't stay cool just with 12v only from the alternator.

I still struggle to understand why 95% of big vans and MH use gas for heating. Apart from the pain having to swap 2 heavy 11L bottles, which cost 25€ for the refill for 1 bottle (prices here in Germany),
in cold temperatures around 0° C and below, they don't last mor than 3 days each bottle.

So it depends in which season and for how long you camp. But in comparison, a full tank of diesel would last weeks, not days. An alternative would be to install fixed special gas bottles, which can be filled at a GPL petrol station at a considerable lower cost per litre (Installation costs ~2000€ all in). But they also won't last any longer...

 

[soulstyledevon]

A diesel heather can certainly be run whilst driving, and there is the same provision as in the Cali, that when fuel is too low, it stops working so you can always start the vehicle and have enough fuel to reach a petrol station.
A gas truma can also be run while driving, provided a crash sensor has been installed, this blocks the gas supply in the event of an accident. It is actually more to be able to operate the big fridge whilst en-route, as in a hot summer day, a big fridge-freezer won't stay cool just with 12v only from the alternator.

I still struggle to understand why 95% of big vans and MH use gas for heating. Apart from the pain having to swap 2 heavy 11L bottles, which cost 25€ for the refill for 1 bottle (prices here in Germany),
in cold temperatures around 0° C and below, they don't last mor than 3 days each bottle.

So it depends in which season and for how long you camp. But in comparison, a full tank of diesel would last weeks, not days. An alternative would be to install fixed special gas bottles, which can be filled at a GPL petrol station at a considerable lower cost per litre (Installation costs ~2000€ all in). But they also won't last any longer...

I think there is a move towards diesel heating in the converted van section. Hymers latest vans, seem to be moving in that direction.
Gas reserved for the bigger motorhome category.

 

[Wondering Star]

If I was to purchase again I would go gas free, diesel heating and induction hob.
No more gas inspections and more storage space (no gas locker) which in a panel van is most welcome.
A small induction hob would also make better use of space replacing the mediocre dometic unit allowing for a decent sink and working tap.
Thankfully the latest vans are being fitted with the new style tap.

 

[Billylou]

Has anyone stumbled across Project Yonder? One of the nicer conversions but you’ll need to lay down after you’ve seen the starting prices. Seem to be influenced by self builds but the finishes, electrics and toilet/shower are in a different league, well I guess they have to be at that price. A rival for RP Motorhones, I don’t think so.

Home | Project Yonder

Adventure begins when you step behind the wheel... We have brand new 4X4 Mercedes Sprinter campervans available to reserve today!

projectyonder.co.uk

 

[kave]

A diesel heather can certainly be run whilst driving, and there is the same provision as in the Cali, that when fuel is too low, it stops working so you can always start the vehicle and have enough fuel to reach a petrol station.
A gas truma can also be run while driving, provided a crash sensor has been installed, this blocks the gas supply in the event of an accident. It is actually more to be able to operate the big fridge whilst en-route, as in a hot summer day, a big fridge-freezer won't stay cool just with 12v only from the alternator.

I still struggle to understand why 95% of big vans and MH use gas for heating. Apart from the pain having to swap 2 heavy 11L bottles, which cost 25€ for the refill for 1 bottle (prices here in Germany),
in cold temperatures around 0° C and below, they don't last mor than 3 days each bottle.

So it depends in which season and for how long you camp. But in comparison, a full tank of diesel would last weeks, not days. An alternative would be to install fixed special gas bottles, which can be filled at a GPL petrol station at a considerable lower cost per litre (Installation costs ~2000€ all in). But they also won't last any longer...

Main reason is not to disturb while camping, the gas heaters makes less sound and wont smell.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Has anyone stumbled across Project Yonder? One of the nicer conversions but you’ll need to lay down after you’ve seen the starting prices. Seem to be influenced by self builds but the finishes, electrics and toilet/shower are in a different league, well I guess they have to be at that price. A rival for RP Motorhones, I don’t think so.

Home | Project Yonder

Adventure begins when you step behind the wheel... We have brand new 4X4 Mercedes Sprinter campervans available to reserve today!

projectyonder.co.uk

There’s some nice touches on that van. But i wonder what the residual value will be in 3 years?
We were convinced about a conversion, but the final build cost and future value put us off.
At least with Hymer, Knaus or Grand Cali, there should be a decent residual.
Not sure, I personally would ever buy a used self build or small time converter van…

 

[Wondering Star]

Totally agree with Soulstyledevon.
Hymer MLT Crossover 4x4 looks a bargain at a starting price of £131000 compared to Project van.
Takes years to build customer confidence and reputation.
RP have achieved this but its a very niche customer base.

 

[GrannyJen]

If I was to purchase again I would go gas free, diesel heating and induction hob.
No more gas inspections and more storage space (no gas locker) which in a panel van is most welcome.
A small induction hob would also make better use of space replacing the mediocre dometic unit allowing for a decent sink and working tap.
Thankfully the latest vans are being fitted with the new style tap.

I'm doing that in 2024. I have not used the gas in my van for over a year. Cooking is a Vango Sizzler induction hob *2 and a Remoska, a 1kw kettle for boiling and diesel for heating. If off Grid then I have a 1Kwh Anker power station that charges up on the move or from the leisure batteries. I had two bottles in the van, then one bottle and now a useful empty cupboard.

 

[Lee.Van.Cleef]

There’s some nice touches on that van. But i wonder what the residual value will be in 3 years?
We were convinced about a conversion, but the final build cost and future value put us off.
At least with Hymer, Knaus or Grand Cali, there should be a decent residual.
Not sure, I personally would ever buy a used self build or small time converter van…

Yep. Uncertain residuals of conversations (and availability) was what pushed us towards a Cali, despite it's limitations and imperfections. We did consider some of the VW approved converters which I assume have better residuals.