Brand new 6.1 Ocean roof continuing issue

[andyinluton]

I suspect temperature extremes make a difference,

Temperature shouldn't make any difference. It wouldn't explain why a 7 year old van didn't sag & a brand new one does.

If it was temperature you would expect a roof that was tensioned first thing in the morning to stay tight as the temperature increased during the day & only start to sag when there is a drop in temperature in the evening.

You would also expect the roof to stay taught if the temperature has stayed stable.

On ours, the sag is proportional to the time since the roof was last tensioned, irrespective of temperature, the dealer suggests its a faulty valve on the pump & I have no reason to disagree.

 

[Defender90]

We suspect it is a factor too, but this is dropping to the point where something is clearly wrong sometimes in just 2-3 hours. We can correct the roof before bed, and it is substantially down by morning.

If you go to the search bar and put in

ELEVATING ROOF HYDRAULIC PUMP REPAIR​

• Thread starteroak
• Start dateMay 8, 2020
• TagsNone

 

[andyinluton]

If you go to the search bar and put in

ELEVATING ROOF HYDRAULIC PUMP REPAIR​

• Thread starteroak
• Start dateMay 8, 2020
• TagsNone

Thats all useful info. If our van was out of warranty I'm pretty confident that I could sort it, best case a bit of swarf that needs flushing out, worst case a valve needs replacing.

It might just be coincidence, I might be wrong, I'm guessing that there could be a batch of dodgy pumps.

Both Morsels and my van are 199s irrespective of registered / purchased date, that points to an earlier T6.1, others with problems appear to be earlier T6.1s as well.

 

[Defender90]

Thats all useful info. If our van was out of warranty I'm pretty confident that I could sort it, best case a bit of swarf that needs flushing out, worst case a valve needs replacing.

It might just be coincidence, I might be wrong, I'm guessing that there could be a batch of dodgy pumps.

Both Morsels and my van are 199s irrespective of registered / purchased date, that points to an earlier T6.1, others with problems appear to be earlier T6.1s as well.

it could be the hoses that have transferred debris into the pump unit valves, when the hose manufacture cuts the hoses to length and makes the ends up small particles remain inside the hose. The hoses should be flushed out before connecting to the pump.

 

[Pollewop]

Am I being over-picky?
Is this a known problem on motorised 6.1 roofs?
How can I get the dealer to take me seriously/what should I say?

Hi Morsels,

Really sorry to read the mishap you have with the sagging of the roof. Now regarding your three questions:
“Am I being over-picky?”
> No, You're definitely not at all, imho. A roof shouldn’t sag like that, unless you own a California that’s really old. That is not the case...
“Is this a known problem on motorised 6.1 roofs?”
> Well, let me put it like this: The manually operated roof was the reason we decided to order a Coast. On the German Cali forum there is a large thread called “the continuing story of the pop-up roof”. The electro-hydraulic pop-up roof seems to have “it’s issues “.
“How can I get the dealer to take me seriously/what should I say?”
> Gather as much as possible “evidence” (Pictures with date and time, Frequency etc.etc.).
> Send them to the dealer where you bought your Cali, and await there response.
> If there is no or a non-satisfactory response, you escalate the matter by letting them know that you will get legal advise, and you will not hesitate to start a legal action. Await there response, and again:
If there is no or a non-satisfactory response, you escalate the matter by really start a legal action.
This may start them moving in your direction > into solving the issue.
Of course this is not what you wish for when you take ownership of a VW California, but sometimes it goes that way... Success

 

[Morsels]

Hi Morsels,

Really sorry to read the mishap you have with the sagging of the roof. Now regarding your three questions:
“Am I being over-picky?”
> No, You're definitely not at all, imho. A roof shouldn’t sag like that, unless you own a California that’s really old. That is not the case...
“Is this a known problem on motorised 6.1 roofs?”
> Well, let me put it like this: The manually operated roof was the reason we decided to order a Coast. On the German Cali forum there is a large thread called “the continuing story of the pop-up roof”. The electro-hydraulic pop-up roof seems to have “it’s issues “.
“How can I get the dealer to take me seriously/what should I say?”
> Gather as much as possible “evidence” (Pictures with date and time, Frequency etc.etc.).
> Send them to the dealer where you bought your Cali, and await there response.
> If there is no or a non-satisfactory response, you escalate the matter by letting them know that you will get legal advise, and you will not hesitate to start a legal action. Await there response, and again:
If there is no or a non-satisfactory response, you escalate the matter by really start a legal action.
This may start them moving in your direction > into solving the issue.
Of course this is not what you wish for when you take ownership of a VW California, but sometimes it goes that way... Success

Thanks for this, super helpful.

 

[Persephone]

I’m at least now feeling better that I’m not going mad. I took our 6.1 away recently without hubby - and had the “roof in intermediate position issue”. VW assist had absolutely no idea what to do - and as if by magic it just decided to work. I felt so stupid. We’re now having the issue with the lights too …. We are currently in Scotland and the roof has had a couple of days where it decided not to close immediately- so we just turn the engine on and off, lock and unlock, and eventually it decides it wants to close. I am thinking a call to the dealer on Monday ….

 

[Nigel2020cali]

Yes, and I think I should try and find a Spanish dealer with more experience of these things rather than try to continue with the Gibraltar dealer who I’m sure would be the first to admit they’re not really set up to deal with this type of thing.

Hi, I'm new to the forum and I am very interested on the issue of roof problems being dicussed. I took delivery of my California Ocean in Dec 20 (MY21) and have experienced the dreaded roof sag. It didn't auto correct either until I took it to a dealer in Germany (August last year) after the roof was locked in the raised position (an hour before boarding Eurotunnel). Like other reports it played ball after 40mins for no apparent reason and I was able to lower it and carry on with my journey to Germany where I had the software upgrade. The drop/sag continues to be an issue but at least it auotcorrects (10hrs and then every 5hrs and not the 5hrs/2.5hrs it states in the owners manual).

My cali has been in the dealers at least three times now and to be fair the dealer is keen to help, but VW technical assist may have their hands tied? They are saying the roof sag and the roof lights going out are two different issues (which I don't believe). VW tech advised the fault with the roof lights was a faulty wiring loom and this was replaced under warranty. Guess what - the lights still go out! They then suggested it had been incorrectly wired in the factory so this was changed - didn't sort the problem! They are now suggesting the "rams" are swapped over as the sag is more prominent on the passenger side. This is yet to happen as having left my vehicle with VW for over three weeks I wanted it back. It will go back in, but it appears by this approach the roof sag and roof lights are related.

Have any forum members had these issues resolved? If so, it would be good to hear what your local dealers was able to do for you as it appears some have a different approach. I agree the 20cm sag, which VW is within tolerance, is rediculous and would render the cali useless as a liveable space. I've measured my drop over a 12 hour period and the maximum drop was approximately 2.5 cms, but this was sufficient to stop the lights working and create a very saggy canvas as displayed in the photos posted by another member. I'm keen it doesn't spoil my fun in using the cali, but equally I don't want, what should be a simple engineering problem to rectify, go by unrersolved.

 

[andyinluton]

Have any forum members had these issues resolved? If so, it would be good to hear what your local dealers was able to do for you as it appears some have a different approach.

Yes, mine has been sorted completely. It took 3 visits.

First visit was software update - that removes the software lock that stops the roof moving do to being in the intermediate position. It may also change the timing of the auto adjust.

Second visit was replacement of the hydraulic rams.

Third visit was complete replacement of the pump assembly.

Took 6 months overall.

I understand that its VWs current policy to not replace the pump, this may just be down to lack of availability, or it may be cost - it was 4 days in the workshop after the parts had been delivered.

I wouldn't want the roof adjusting after 5 hours, it wakes me up every time it does it. If its 10 hours you can at least adjust it manually before going to bed & have 10 hours undisturbed.

The issue with the lights can be demonstrated by turning the lights on & starting to lower the roof, they went off on mine once the roof had been lowered a couple of inches as intended by VW. That isn't a wiring fault.

 

[Phillvr6]

Ours has had the upgrade so it no longer has a hissy in between up and intermediate.

The lights automatically switch off as you lower the rood so this isn't a fault, at a certain point they'll flicker and work intermittently.

Looking at it logically, many moons ago there was an issue with rams exploding if they got too hot as a result of the hydraulic fluid expanding, now they have a pressure release valve, the downside is that when the fluid in the rams cool the roof will sag.

I wouldn't want disturbing by a self correction at an inconvenient time so all you need to do is pop the roof up in the evening, a 30 second job.

 

[Nigel2020cali]

Yes, mine has been sorted completely. It took 3 visits.

First visit was software update - that removes the software lock that stops the roof moving do to being in the intermediate position. It may also change the timing of the auto adjust.

Second visit was replacement of the hydraulic rams.

Third visit was complete replacement of the pump assembly.

Took 6 months overall.

I understand that its VWs current policy to not replace the pump, this may just be down to lack of availability, or it may be cost - it was 4 days in the workshop after the parts had been delivered.

I wouldn't want the roof adjusting after 5 hours, it wakes me up every time it does it. If its 10 hours you can at least adjust it manually before going to bed & have 10 hours undisturbed.

The issue with the lights can be demonstrated by turning the lights on & starting to lower the roof, they went off on mine once the roof had been lowered a couple of inches as intended by VW. That isn't a wiring fault.

@andyinluton many thanks for coming back to me and I'm glad your issue has been resolved. I agree about the auto adjustment as well. Happy camping.

 

[Nigel2020cali]

Ours has had the upgrade so it no longer has a hissy in between up and intermediate.

The lights automatically switch off as you lower the rood so this isn't a fault, at a certain point they'll flicker and work intermittently.

Looking at it logically, many moons ago there was an issue with rams exploding if they got too hot as a result of the hydraulic fluid expanding, now they have a pressure release valve, the downside is that when the fluid in the rams cool the roof will sag.

I wouldn't want disturbing by a self correction at an inconvenient time so all you need to do is pop the roof up in the evening, a 30 second job.

@Phillvr6 thank you and good to hear the "hissy" is no longer. Happy camping.

 

[66tim99]

can at least adjust it manually before going to bed

How do you do that?

 

[andyinluton]

How do you do that?

Just raise the use the roof controls to retention it before going to bed. it then gives you the 10 hours before readjusting itself.

 

[flying banana]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and I am very interested on the issue of roof problems being dicussed. I took delivery of my California Ocean in Dec 20 (MY21) and have experienced the dreaded roof sag. It didn't auto correct either until I took it to a dealer in Germany (August last year) after the roof was locked in the raised position (an hour before boarding Eurotunnel). Like other reports it played ball after 40mins for no apparent reason and I was able to lower it and carry on with my journey to Germany where I had the software upgrade. The drop/sag continues to be an issue but at least it auotcorrects (10hrs and then every 5hrs and not the 5hrs/2.5hrs it states in the owners manual).

Nigel. this isn't normal and some members on here have only had the issue resolved with a new hydro elecric pump. VW don't like changing these as they are cost well over a brass band new. i think there is a batch with faulty check valves. heres a pic i took in Sheffield showroom. brand new bus and sagging on the right. do serch for 'roof sag' and if necessary direct your so called VW master tech to do a bit of reading. swapping the rams left to right will prove its the pump so let them do this first. my 6 year old T6 roof stays up and taught for days on end with no sag,do not let them fob you off on this. as said the lights going out is normal, amazed they don't know this and swapped a loom for nothing. idiots. good luck

 

[Nigel2020cali]

Nigel. this isn't normal and some members on here have only had the issue resolved with a new hydro elecric pump. VW don't like changing these as they are cost well over a brass band new. i think there is a batch with faulty check valves. heres a pic i took in Sheffield showroom. brand new bus and sagging on the right. do serch for 'roof sag' and if necessary direct your so called VW master tech to do a bit of reading. swapping the rams left to right will prove its the pump so let them do this first. my 6 year old T6 roof stays up and taught for days on end with no sag,do not let them fob you off on this. as said the lights going out is normal, amazed they don't know this and swapped a loom for nothing. idiots. good luck

View attachment 89004

@flying banana thank you taking the time to comment. As you suggest, I will allow them to swap over the rams to prove it is the much reported batch of pumps with a faulty valve. I can understand their reluctance not to spend money on replacing parts but...

 

[GP]

I've written on the subject many times and our T6.1 is going back into Bristol VW in March for yet another attempt to resolve the sagging roof issue. Last time it was in the workshop they said in the morning when the inspected the roof it was all good and that the software update had worked. However i think it had auto corrected in the early morning since it is no better. I have tried leaving it without power hook up and it hasn't auto-corrected so I am going to ask them not to hook it up this time and I bet the roof will be sagging again when they come in in the morning. I have been helped by a really helpful and caring lady at VW but as someone has said above I think their hands are tied as to what they are allowed to do. If they don't make progress with the van this time - it is booked in for a week, I will go legal with VW (not Bristol since it is not their fault) since we cannot put up with the issue continuing.
Again if anyone has found that VW are allowing the pumps to be replaced pleased do message us all since we all know that eventually they will have to do it - I have the five year warranty so they can't be thinking that they can string me out for that long, can they??!!

 

[Defender90]

what a disgrace vw are, treating people who spend large amounts of money in this way. the thing is all the money they have spent paying the dealer to replace parts that haven't failed checking and checking again it would have been cheaper just fitting a new pump. Bristol are to blame as well they aren't proving the fix before returning your van, this should be a straight forward fault finding process for a main dealer.

 

[andyinluton]

If the roof is working correctly it shouldn't need to auto-correct unless there is a massive change in temperature.

I don't recall our T5.1 ever going saggy or auto correcting in 7 years of use.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

what a disgrace vw are, treating people who spend large amounts of money in this way. the thing is all the money they have spent paying the dealer to replace parts that haven't failed checking and checking again it would have been cheaper just fitting a new pump. Bristol are to blame as well they aren't proving the fix before returning your van, this should be a straight forward fault finding process for a main dealer.

I wonder if the dealerships talk to each other? If they did they would see a pattern and would also recognise the best action to take to fix it and could communicate this to VW.
If I was a cynic, I might think that they benefit from not doing the final fix straight away, since they get reimbursed by VW for all the interim work.

 

[Morsels]

I am the original poster here, and sadly ours is still not fixed, our dealer is trying to help but we're facing all the same problems as detailed above. Please let's all stay in touch on this thread, and hopefully our shared experiences will help us to job our technicians into fixing the issue.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

If I was a cynic, I might think that they benefit from not doing the final fix straight away, since they get reimbursed by VW for all the interim work.

That would require a certain level of intelligence

 

[andyinluton]

If I was a cynic, I might think that they benefit from not doing the final fix straight away, since they get reimbursed by VW for all the interim work.

Theres huge waiting times just to get them to have a look, I can't see its to the dealerships benefit to keep annoying customers if they thought there was a well documented fix that they knew would work first time.

Also the software updates & changing the rams are easy & quick to do, the pump change is a major operation & I could see why VW would view it as a last resort.

What is annoying is that the workshop are unable to order a pump so its sitting there waiting to be fitted the day after the rams have been changed & its shown that that didn't work.
I don't know what supply issues are like at the moment but it took 5 months to get hold of a pump for me last year.

 

[Perfectos]

Theres huge waiting times just to get them to have a look, I can't see its to the dealerships benefit to keep annoying customers if they thought there was a well documented fix that they knew would work first time.

Also the software updates & changing the rams are easy & quick to do, the pump change is a major operation & I could see why VW would view it as a last resort.

What is annoying is that the workshop are unable to order a pump so its sitting there waiting to be fitted the day after the rams have been changed & its shown that that didn't work.
I don't know what supply issues are like at the moment but it took 5 months to get hold of a pump for me last year.

Hi Andy,

obviously the dealer you used for your fix, now has first hand experience of the issue and more importantly the fix.
would it be helpful to others to name that Dealer ?

 

[andyinluton]

Hi Andy,

obviously the dealer you used for your fix, now has first hand experience of the issue and more importantly the fix.
would it be helpful to others to name that Dealer ?

Fixed by Citygate Wooburn Green.

You need to be aware that once one dealer has tried a fix, ie the software, no other dealer will touch it, even dealerships in the same chain.

I wanted Citygate at Colindale to do the fix as I can get to them easily, they quoted a 8 week wait just to have a look.

VW Customer services got me into Wooburn green after a few callouts to VW assist. Once Wooburn had failed with the software update I was stuck with them.