Brand new 6.1 Ocean roof continuing issue

[GP]

I've written on the subject many times and our T6.1 is going back into Bristol VW in March for yet another attempt to resolve the sagging roof issue. Last time it was in the workshop they said in the morning when the inspected the roof it was all good and that the software update had worked. However i think it had auto corrected in the early morning since it is no better. I have tried leaving it without power hook up and it hasn't auto-corrected so I am going to ask them not to hook it up this time and I bet the roof will be sagging again when they come in in the morning. I have been helped by a really helpful and caring lady at VW but as someone has said above I think their hands are tied as to what they are allowed to do. If they don't make progress with the van this time - it is booked in for a week, I will go legal with VW (not Bristol since it is not their fault) since we cannot put up with the issue continuing.
Again if anyone has found that VW are allowing the pumps to be replaced pleased do message us all since we all know that eventually they will have to do it - I have the five year warranty so they can't be thinking that they can string me out for that long, can they??!!

Can anyone help me or give me advice. After a long wait my van has gone into Bristol Van Center to work on the roof. I spoke to them today and they said it dropped 9 cms yesterday before auto correcting and that unfortunately 9 cms is within the tolerance allowed by VW. So they are trying again today to see if the drop is more, but I expect it will be the same but I have said that a 9 cms drop in the night is unacceptable, especially in the wind. They have said their hands are tied by VW head office. I am starting to worry. Any thoughts or help much appreciated.

 

[Cwcltd]

My experience with a sagging T6 roof on my Ocean; it started to drop on one side and I reported it to my local dealer (Hereford VW). Without any push back or delays they took the van in for a week and replaced the hydraulics. Only problem was that as the van was ready for collection they were told by VW HQ that as part of the repair the sliding roof panel also needed to be replaced, and Hereford had none in stock, so the van stayed with them for another week.

 

[andyinluton]

Can anyone help me or give me advice. After a long wait my van has gone into Bristol Van Center to work on the roof. I spoke to them today and they said it dropped 9 cms yesterday before auto correcting and that unfortunately 9 cms is within the tolerance allowed by VW. So they are trying again today to see if the drop is more, but I expect it will be the same but I have said that a 9 cms drop in the night is unacceptable, especially in the wind. They have said their hands are tied by VW head office. I am starting to worry. Any thoughts or help much appreciated.

Is it just one side sagging?

9cm is totally unacceptable. My 2020 van once fixed had zero sag.

I suspect that 9cm may be enough for the lights in the roof to stop working? If so book it in to get the lights fixed?

 

[Morsels]

Is it just one side sagging?

9cm is totally unacceptable. My 2020 van once fixed had zero sag.

I suspect that 9cm may be enough for the lights in the roof to stop working? If so book it in to get the lights fixed?

No resolution here either yet, like you I worry that VW will try to squirm out of fixing this for us. We have the dealer escalating things with VW but honestly I am not hopeful, and feel we may be taking the supplier/dealer/VW to court, depending on what legal advice we are given. I truly hope it doesn't come to that.

Have you asked your garage the question as to why the auto correct isn't kicking in and re-tightening the roof?

 

[flying banana]

Seems to me like VW don't like changing the pump as they are expensive and time consuming. Can't see it being too complex a job personally.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Our 2008 van sagged a couple of times in 2013 when we had a roof box on. Corrected itself, waking us up. Never done it since. This shouldn’t be happening.

 

[andyinluton]

Seems to me like VW don't like changing the pump as they are expensive and time consuming. Can't see it being too complex a job personally.

I understand they took the roof bed out, disconnected the bellows & stripped out all the headlining when they did my pump. The potential for damaging trim sounds pretty onerous to me.
Then if I remember correctly there was only one bloke that is trained on the Cali hydraulics.

It was in the workshop for 4 days - a day of that may have been just standing there with the roof up making sure it wasn't sagging.

 

[GP]

No resolution here either yet, like you I worry that VW will try to squirm out of fixing this for us. We have the dealer escalating things with VW but honestly I am not hopeful, and feel we may be taking the supplier/dealer/VW to court, depending on what legal advice we are given. I truly hope it doesn't come to that.

Have you asked your garage the question as to why the auto correct isn't kicking in and re-tightening the roof?

Yes I have and VW say that auto correction is all part of the solution. They believe the rood should sink naturally and that is why they have auto correction. So the measurement of 9 cms is the most they have measured because it auto corrects. That is no help in the middle of the night when the bellows are flapping in the wind and the lights don't work - joy. I will also go legal with them if it is not resolved.

 

[Perfectos]

An analogy:

if you bought a £200 tent and that tent roof sagged visually by 9cm you would take it back to the shop as it is not as it has been designed to be.

to put it in perspective the roof sagging by 9cm would be in the order of 10% failure of the lifting mechanism At it highest point!

then there is the issues with the factory fitted lights being inoperable because of this fault M

the fact that the Cali is immeasurably more expensive that a simple tent should be enough for owners to expect the vehicle to be provided and be operate as designed, without issue for many years,
the T6.1 is the only camper on the market known to have an issue with roof sag from factory new!

when you buy any camper with a pop top it is a given that the roof will stay up at its full extent without issue, VW seem to think that the T6.1 is exempt from this natural assumption, despite previous models not exhibiting this fault from new (enmass) it is clearly a design fault with the T6.1 that VW do not want to pay to fix, but instead are prepare to fob off the loyal customer

 

[Perfectos]

Yes I have and VW say that auto correction is all part of the solution. They believe the rood should sink naturally and that is why they have auto correction. So the measurement of 9 cms is the most they have measured because it auto corrects. That is no help in the middle of the night when the bellows are flapping in the wind and the lights don't work - joy. I will also go legal with them if it is not resolved.

I would say that the precedent has been set by VW carrying out fixes for some with the issue

 

[flying banana]

I understand they took the roof bed out, disconnected the bellows & stripped out all the headlining when they did my pump. The potential for damaging trim sounds pretty onerous to me.
Then if I remember correctly there was only one bloke that is trained on the Cali hydraulics.

It was in the workshop for 4 days - a day of that may have been just standing there with the roof up making sure it wasn't sagging.

Didn't triplebee swap his own pump out without removing the roof bed and bellows?

 

[GP]

I can see that VW Hereford has resolved the issue and also Citygate Wooburn Green both by eventually replacing the hydraulics. Has anyone else had a different VW dealer in the UK or Europe who has resolved a T6.1 sinking roof problem with changing the hydraulics? Be really useful to know that information. Thanks

 

[Dell]

I was looking at these thread on the roof issues that Morsel has been having and I wondered if he had it sorted, I know exactly what you mean with the local dealers. I can suggest a good dealer very near in mainland Spain you could try. They are official Skoda dealers but also VW commercial official dealers in Algeciras. I am sure they will get to the bottom of things for you. I have had very good dealings with them on different problems. PM me and I could give you more details.

 

[Dell]

I've posted about this before, but it is driving us nuts - I am sure this is not right! .

Here's our roof, it was put up fully at midnight last night, it is now 6pm the next day:View attachment 82865View attachment 82866View attachment 82867
The control panel says the roof is "intermediate", the lights don't work up there (as the van thinks the roof isn't fully up and has shut them off), and the kids complain about it flapping in the wind. Yet our VW dealer told us that VW told them that "10-20cm of roof sag is within tolerances" and there's nothing they can do about this.

The auto correct has in the past kicked in to correct it, but it hasn't recently even after waiting the 10 hours since the ignition was last turned on that is apparently necessary. And anyway, the roof sags far too much to be acceptable before it does/doesn't self correct.

I know it isn't the biggest problem in the world as we can just put the roof up again repeatedly, but it is a brand new van and I instinctively feel this is not right.

Am I being over-picky?
Is this a known problem on motorised 6.1 roofs?
How can I get the dealer to take me seriously/what should I say?

Any advice from owners who have dealt with or are dealing with the same issue would be gratefully received. Thanks!

If you can PM me I might be able to help

I've posted about this before, but it is driving us nuts - I am sure this is not right! .

Here's our roof, it was put up fully at midnight last night, it is now 6pm the next day:View attachment 82865View attachment 82866View attachment 82867
The control panel says the roof is "intermediate", the lights don't work up there (as the van thinks the roof isn't fully up and has shut them off), and the kids complain about it flapping in the wind. Yet our VW dealer told us that VW told them that "10-20cm of roof sag is within tolerances" and there's nothing they can do about this.

The auto correct has in the past kicked in to correct it, but it hasn't recently even after waiting the 10 hours since the ignition was last turned on that is apparently necessary. And anyway, the roof sags far too much to be acceptable before it does/doesn't self correct.

I know it isn't the biggest problem in the world as we can just put the roof up again repeatedly, but it is a brand new van and I instinctively feel this is not right.

Am I being over-picky?
Is this a known problem on motorised 6.1 roofs?
How can I get the dealer to take me seriously/what should I say?

Any advice from owners who have dealt with or are dealing with the same issue would be gratefully received. Thanks!

I might have your fix, I know a good dealer in Algeciras Spain you could take the problem to. It is the official VW commercial Garage but is under the Official Skoda Dealer PM me if you want and I could pass you the main guy there. I have had many dealings with them in the passed, which might help you sort it especially if it is still under guarantee.

 

[Morsels]

Hi Dell, have we met? Not sure!

Anyway, this sounds like a possible plan, Rock Motors are trying but with no success so far.

However, I can't PM you, when I click on your name the option isn't there. Could you maybe drop me an email (philmorse AT hey.com)?

Really appreciate it!

 

[Morsels]

Update: Our dealer has today informed us that VW has said that because our roof doesn't drop 20cm, they won't repair it. They have said the fact that the lights go out in the roof as soon as it drops and we need to turn the ignition on and re-raise the roof to make the roof lights work again is not something they will repair, and we are expected to manually raise the roof back to where it should be to make the lights work again every time.

Our dealer (Rock Motors, Gibraltar) has said there is a route to appeal directly to VW that we can try and they can help us with that, so looks like that will be our next step.

 

[andyinluton]

Update: Our dealer has today informed us that VW has said that because our roof doesn't drop 20cm, they won't repair it.

I feel your pain!

Is it worth calling the nearest Spanish dealer to see if they think its bad enough to need a repair?

 

[Morsels]

I feel your pain!

Is it worth calling the nearest Spanish dealer to see if they think its bad enough to need a repair?

Yes, that is another potential avenue, there is a good dealer a few miles across the border.

 

[GP]

Hmm, VW B

Update: Our dealer has today informed us that VW has said that because our roof doesn't drop 20cm, they won't repair it. They have said the fact that the lights go out in the roof as soon as it drops and we need to turn the ignition on and re-raise the roof to make the roof lights work again is not something they will repair, and we are expected to manually raise the roof back to where it should be to make the lights work again every time.

Our dealer (Rock Motors, Gibraltar) has said there is a route to appeal directly to VW that we can try and they can help us with that, so looks like that will be our next step.

Morsels, we need to possibly talk this through. I have been given instructions what I need to do next to get it resolved and be good to chat it through with you. Can we message directly since I am not an expert using this forum?

 

[Perfectos]

Hmm, VW B

Morsels, we need to possibly talk this through. I have been given instructions what I need to do next to get it resolved and be good to chat it through with you. Can we message directly since I am not an expert using this forum?

To that Morsels will need to be a VIP member

 

[Morsels]

Hmm, VW B

Morsels, we need to possibly talk this through. I have been given instructions what I need to do next to get it resolved and be good to chat it through with you. Can we message directly since I am not an expert using this forum?

GP I'd love to talk this through, I'd be truly grateful. Please can you drop me an email at

philmorse [AT] hey.com

I have just renewed my VIP membership here so forum direct message will work too, but I am guessing you'd be more comfortable with an old fashioned email!

 

[Morsels]

To that Morsels will need to be a VIP member

Done!

 

[GP]

I suspect temperature extremes make a difference, we have got in the habbit of popping the roof down and up every few days.

Ultimately they are hydraulic, if you put the roof up and subsequently it's in direct sunlight the fluid in the rams will expand and pressure needs to release, there have been instances in the early days of these exploding when there wasn't a release facility.

Once the temperature cools the pressure drops again and the roof sags.

So, if you're somewhere hot and you put the roof up at the coldest time (midnight) it will drop by the maximum amount by the time its been through a full temperature cycle.

Try putting it up during the hottest part of the day and see where you are 24 hours later.

Hi Phivr6

Are you still having problems with the roof dropping? Maybe you could let me know?

 

[Nigel2020cali]

Update: Our dealer has today informed us that VW has said that because our roof doesn't drop 20cm, they won't repair it. They have said the fact that the lights go out in the roof as soon as it drops and we need to turn the ignition on and re-raise the roof to make the roof lights work again is not something they will repair, and we are expected to manually raise the roof back to where it should be to make the lights work again every time.

Our dealer (Rock Motors, Gibraltar) has said there is a route to appeal directly to VW that we can try and they can help us with that, so looks like that will be our next step.

For an update on my situation... I recently got my Cali back after another two weeks with the local dealership. The rams were swapped and one was replaced, but the problem remained. On advice from VW Tech, measurements (electrical readings) were taken of the roof switches and compared against another Cali (the readings were similar). Having been without the Cali for over two weeks I asked for it to be returned whilst I wait to hear what will happen next. I fully expect to have a simialr response to Morsels, which is what I/we have said all along, the lights are linked to the roof. I'm not saying the 20cm tolerance is acceptable, but if that is their stance then the roof lights should continue to operate within the limit of tolerance. I joked about propping up my roof with two peices of timber - I've just read a post from 2019 that someone already does this! Very disappointing that this issue has been known for so long, tolerance levels have changed over the years (I've read it was 5cm) and how VW previously rectified the issue by changing the hydraulic pump.

 

[GP]

For an update on my situation... I recently got my Cali back after another two weeks with the local dealership. The rams were swapped and one was replaced, but the problem remained. On advice from VW Tech, measurements (electrical readings) were taken of the roof switches and compared against another Cali (the readings were similar). Having been without the Cali for over two weeks I asked for it to be returned whilst I wait to hear what will happen next. I fully expect to have a simialr response to Morsels, which is what I/we have said all along, the lights are linked to the roof. I'm not saying the 20cm tolerance is acceptable, but if that is their stance then the roof lights should continue to operate within the limit of tolerance. I joked about propping up my roof with two peices of timber - I've just read a post from 2019 that someone already does this! Very disappointing that this issue has been known for so long, tolerance levels have changed over the years (I've read it was 5cm) and how VW previously rectified the issue by changing the hydraulic pump.

Hi Nigel, it appears that you are not a VIP member so I cannot communicate directly with you. I would like to speak with you directly but not sure how since I don't think I should put my number on the forum. It might be worth you joining as a VIP for this year since there are more individuals talking about this who are VIPs and can talk and communicate directly. Would that be possible fro you?