Disaster at sea

[westfalia]

Solid state batteries are around the corner and as well as providing 700+ mile range will eliminate most of the current fire risk. Whichever way you cut it EV’s are the future at least for personal transport in family / smaller vehicles. My wife has an e-up and it’s immeasurably better in all areas than any other small car we have owned, even the 130 mile range just isn’t a problem for us as a second car. And as a petrol head this is a hard admission to make!

Around the corner may be fine for you, But I use the Chunnel often and have seen
many EV's also using it. Next time I have any thoughts about what could be a disaster
I don't think that me thinking about solid state batteries coming around the corner is going to
ease my mind.
Once you see thermal runaway you cannot not see it happening.

I hope that eurotunnel will load the EV's at the rear of the train, then if the inevitable
happens, they open up all of the windows and drive hell for leather until we reach the otherside

 

[Kingfisher]

Banned on a Norwegian ferry already.

Havila Bans Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Transport Due to Fire Danger

Havila Kystruten, which operates coastal passenger service in Norway aboard its fleet of newly built RoPax ships, is changing the rules for the transp...

maritime-executive.com

Although it‘s been heavily reported then and again now, I’m not sure that the ban on electric vehicles by Havila Kystruten is really that relevant. Being the new competitor to Hurtigruten, car transport must have been in their tender to the government. They just don’t seem very enthusiastic about it: they only allow cars from Bergen all the way to Kirkenes or vice versa. Whereas it is the port to port service along the coast that is most useful. Also for travelling Californias by the way!

Havila don’t really want to transport cars it seems, since they only deliver the barest minimum. Their ban on electric and hybrid vehicles might be seen in this light. I certainly haven’t heard of any other ferry (there are many) in Norway with plans for a ban.

 

[oliver100]

Around the corner may be fine for you, But I use the Chunnel often and have seen
many EV's also using it. Next time I have any thoughts about what could be a disaster
I don't think that me thinking about solid state batteries coming around the corner is going to
ease my mind.
Once you see thermal runaway you cannot not see it happening.

I hope that eurotunnel will load the EV's at the rear of the train, then if the inevitable
happens, they open up all of the windows and drive hell for leather until we reach the otherside

Honestly a shoddy van conversion with dodgy electrics and gas onboard is more worrying to me. Many also have lithium batteries onboard if you really want sleepless nights.

I have also owned a Ferrari 355 and Porsche 993 that both had well documented recalls for potential engine fires, one due to a dodgy wiring harness and the other a fuel hose that rubbed behind the engine and went up like a Roman candle at a moments notice… Neither of which you would want to be parked next to on the tunnel!

 

[Corradobrit]

Porsche 993

Owned one for 10 years. No spontaneous combustion events.

 

[oliver100]

Owned one for 10 years. No spontaneous combustion events.

I also had mine for 10 years and only sold it a few months ago but the first thing i did was have the engine wiring harness recall done as the previous owners had not bothered and it was a state when they pulled it! The rear fan relay did once stick and melt but I managed to figure that out and pull it quickly before things escalated.

 

[sidepod]

Honestly a shoddy van conversion with dodgy electrics and gas onboard is more worrying to me. Many also have lithium batteries onboard if you really want sleepless nights.

I have also owned a Ferrari 355 and Porsche 993 that both had well documented recalls for potential engine fires, one due to a dodgy wiring harness and the other a fuel hose that rubbed behind the engine and went up like a Roman candle at a moments notice… Neither of which you would want to be parked next to on the tunnel!

Even if you lived in Folkestone you’d probably struggle to make it to the Chunnel in a 355 without breaking down, so no fire in the tunnel worries there

 

[Corradobrit]

Even if you lived in Folkestone you’d probably struggle to make it to the Chunnel in a 355 without breaking down, so no fire in the tunnel worries there

Lambo fires are a thing too. Lets ban all dodgy Italian supercars and sleep sounder.

 

[westfalia]

Although it‘s been heavily reported then and again now, I’m not sure that the ban on electric vehicles by Havila Kystruten is really that relevant. Being the new competitor to Hurtigruten, car transport must have been in their tender to the government. They just don’t seem very enthusiastic about it: they only allow cars from Bergen all the way to Kirkenes or vice versa. Whereas it is the port to port service along the coast that is most useful. Also for travelling Californias by the way!

Havila don’t really want to transport cars it seems, since they only deliver the barest minimum. Their ban on electric and hybrid vehicles might be seen in this light. I certainly haven’t heard of any other ferry (there are many) in Norway with plans for a ban.

I also had mine for 10 years and only sold it a few months but the first thing i did was have the engine wiring harness recall done as the previous owners had not bothered and it was a state when they pulled it! The rear fan relay did once stick and melt but I managed to figure that out and pull it quickly before things escalated.

Okay, so I take it that I shouldn't be worried that the
Felicity Ace sank off the coast of the Azores and now
the Fremantle Highway is still burning.
I should just concern myself with dodgy vans, 993's and 355's

Thats great. Thanks.

 

[oliver100]

Okay, so I take it that I shouldn't be worried that the
Felicity Ace sank off the coast of the Azores and now
the Fremantle Highway is still burning.
I should just concern myself with dodgy vans, 993's and 355's

Thats great. Thanks.

Okay, so I take it that I shouldn't be worried that the
Felicity Ace sank off the coast of the Azores and now
the Fremantle Highway is still burning.
I should just concern myself with dodgy vans, 993's and 355's

Thats great. Thanks.

Your welcome

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

After Dieselgate maybe the next mis-selling scandal/class action will be brought by the early adopters of EV’s that are subsequently banned from ferries etc and/or don’t meet the forthcoming Euro7 standard. Just a thought.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Banned on a Norwegian ferry already.

Havila Bans Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Transport Due to Fire Danger

Havila Kystruten, which operates coastal passenger service in Norway aboard its fleet of newly built RoPax ships, is changing the rules for the transp...

maritime-executive.com

Probably more likely to do with clearance on the loading ramp at certain ports / tides.

Teslas can only use single deck on Eurostar, as battery can bottom out on the double deck ramp ..resulting in a claim against the carrier.

 

[andyinluton]

Probably more likely to do with clearance on the loading ramp at certain ports / tides.

Teslas can only use single deck on Eurostar, as battery can bottom out on the double deck ramp ..resulting in a claim against the carrier.

That single deck has pretty good fire serparation, only a coach length between fire compartments. In the event of a fire evacuate the compartment, shut the doors & get the driver to put his welly down .

 

[Alied]

Burning freight ship was carrying more electric cars than first reported, shipping company says – Car Dealer Magazine

A freight ship that caught fire off the Dutch coast this week was carrying far more electric cars than was first estimated, officials have reported. The

cardealermagazine.co.uk

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I liked this comment:

//
A brief google search of reliable sources swiftly gives the stat that petrol and diesel powered cars are somewhere between 20 and 100 times more likely to catch fire than an EV. Given the great fire of London was started in a bakery why did we not ban bread a few hundred years ago…?

Remember the panic about exploding laptops on planes a few years ago…? Quite. we will get this sorted, and five years from now no one will be typing/talking about it…
//

 

[Cali Phillip]

I liked this comment:

//
A brief google search of reliable sources swiftly gives the stat that petrol and diesel powered cars are somewhere between 20 and 100 times more likely to catch fire than an EV. Given the great fire of London was started in a bakery why did we not ban bread a few hundred years ago…?

Remember the panic about exploding laptops on planes a few years ago…? Quite. we will get this sorted, and five years from now no one will be typing/talking about it…
//

I read the same thing, the occurrence is much lower but the impact far greater if it does fail.
If anyone watched or read the info from the link I posted, its the toxic gas cloud, explosion and then jet fire which makes even Ebike batteries a significant hazard if they fail in a confined space such as a house, train or ferry.

The effective fire fighting technologies don't really exist yet as detailed in the link and Paul advices the fire and rescue in the UK. Yes there are ways but as the batteries are hard to access under the car this makes it harder to fight the fire at source.

No doubt we will sort this out in time as we will have to if we are going toward an electric future and even if we develop better batteries they will still be a significant legacy of these batteries around for years.

 

[Corradobrit]

EV bus going up in flames. When you know how tightly packed these ferries and transport ships are and the confined space, this sort of fire becomes devastating in a short time. Effective reaction options are limited.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

EV bus going up in flames. When you know how tightly packed these ferries and transport ships are and the confined space, this sort of fire becomes devastating in a short time. Effective reaction options are limited.

Wow! No chance whatsoever of extinguishing that surely.

 

[B J G]

I liked this comment:

//
A brief google search of reliable sources swiftly gives the stat that petrol and diesel powered cars are somewhere between 20 and 100 times more likely to catch fire than an EV. Given the great fire of London was started in a bakery why did we not ban bread a few hundred years ago…?

Remember the panic about exploding laptops on planes a few years ago…? Quite. we will get this sorted, and five years from now no one will be typing/talking about it…
//

Re reading articles

I read that the Fire Brigade say that a typical Fossil fueled car takes 1,000 litres water to extinguish, an EV 30,000 litres water which doesn't actually extinguish the fire merely contains/cools it. This will add millions to the equipment budgets for suitable equipment to respond to EV fires.

I did also read that the Maritime Industry is bringing in special specs for EV transporting Ships/ferries.

 

[Corradobrit]

Wow! No chance whatsoever of extinguishing that surely.

Temps of over 2000 C reached in seconds when Lithium batteries fail. At those temps when water is used to douse the flames, hydrogen is produced. Obvs not ideal...

 

[Corradobrit]

Several days later and the fire is still burning. 3800 cars on board. Ship was heading to Singapore.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

If other ferry companies follow the lead of Havila Kystruten, then I’m guessing restrictions will also apply to the portable battery packs (I.e. Jackery) that many people have in their campervans?

 

[sagy]

... stat that petrol and diesel powered cars are somewhere between 20 and 100 times more likely to catch fire than an EV.

That's some bs, right?

 

[ArunAlec]

An interesting read….. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/how-much-fire-risk-are-electric-vehicles

 

[flying banana]

I reckon most combustion engine fires start whilst they are being driven,from rubbing fuel lines,hot turbos etc as already mentioned. Ev fires are starting whilst they are standing still. I wouldn't charge one of those things in an integral garage that's for sure

 

[andyinluton]

I liked this comment:

//
A brief google search of reliable sources swiftly gives the stat that petrol and diesel powered cars are somewhere between 20 and 100 times more likely to catch fire than an EV. Given the great fire of London was started in a bakery why did we not ban bread a few hundred years ago…?

Remember the panic about exploding laptops on planes a few years ago…? Quite. we will get this sorted, and five years from now no one will be typing/talking about it…
//

I quoted in the other thread the stats from London Fire Brigade that showed Electric cars were far more likely to catch fire than conventional vehicles.

Also worth noting that something between 40-60% of conventional car fires are started deliberately.