Discussion regarding T6 ONLY roof corrosion

[Martin]

Does anyone have any email contacts for senior management in VW? There is a lot of good information in this thread and surely VW management can't be aware they are using defective rusty seals on the Cali.

I think this thread needs to be highlighted to VW.

There is a group of people working behind the scenes who will be in contact with VW head office very soon.

As mentioned above we need as much feedback as possible from T6 owners please, even if you find even the smallest bit of corrosion.

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[leightonjthomas]

There is a group of people working behind the scenes who will be in contact with VW head office very soon.

As mentioned above we need as much feedback as possible from T6 owners please, even if you find even the smallest bit of corrosion.

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I appreciate that this thread is aimed at T6 owners and that T5 owners have already received advice about remedial work but, as the owner of a May 2015 T5 which is showing early signs of under-seal bubbling, I would be most grateful if it could be mentioned that the problem seems to be identical on both models.

 

[Calihunter]

I appreciate that this thread is aimed at T6 owners and that T5 owners have already received advice about remedial work but, as the owner of a May 2015 T5 which is showing early signs of under-seal bubbling, I would be most grateful if it could be mentioned that the problem seems to be identical on both models.

I have just checked the paperwork I got in relation to my recent T5 roof repair. The part number for the replacement rubber seal is the same as in the photo above! So if these seals are faulty my roof repair isn't going to be a long term fix!

 

[CDinFrance]

Thanks to all for this thread, especially the pictures, which are most helpful. I am still a year or so away from buying and considering a used T6 from Germany. What seems to be obvious is that it would be foolish to buy a T6 that is just out of the warranty period...
Does anyone have experience with corrosion warranty repairs outside of the U.K.?

 

[snowy55]

View attachment 18625 View attachment 18623 View attachment 18619 View attachment 18620 Ok . I've had my second new seal today and just checked it under mag x5 at home before fitting . Sadly as I expected this seal is exactly the same . Visible wire in numerous places in the front straight section of the rubber . This appears to be corroded steel but I'm not entirely sure . It's definitely not aluminium . It's orange almost copper / rust coloured with something that appears to be corrosion . I'll try to take x50 pictures over the weekend . I don't blame my dealer at all . Just had first service today . Excellent service . Clearly there is a big quality control issue here . Naked eye would not pick this up . These are the labels off the latest packaging . I'm off to Merribel in van in next few days and then Dubai ( not in van ! ) so will not be able to follow this up for about a month . Don't know which seal to refit but will have to do it tomorrow with silicone grease

Can I ask you not to throw your old seal away but cut say a 6 inch section out and burn the rubber off so we can all see how much metal there is in there?
I'll do the burning if you don't fancy that part!!

 

[Trebor]

Ok tried to fit the new defective seal temporarily this morning with silicone grease as off to Merribel next week . Problem . Because the new seal hadn't been fitted before and formed the memory shape particularly of the front of the roof it was too slippery to fit when silicone grease applied and I was in hurry . So I've refitted my old seal temporarily with silicone grease in the areas which have corrosion / slight bubbling which worked fine . I then went round the top edge of the seal and filled the gap with silicone grease hopefully to keep water out . Took about an hour . I've now emailed my dealer and asked where we go from here .

 

[snowy55]

I've now emailed my dealer and asked where we go from here .

Probably an invalid warranty claim due to silicone grease under the seal, but hey ho!

 

[sbmcd]

Can I ask you not to throw your old seal away but cut say a 6 inch section out and burn the rubber off so we can all see how much metal there is in there?
I'll do the burning if you don't fancy that part!!

It would be interesting to see two cross sections through the seal, one from the side and one from the front so we can see just how close the metal insert is to the inner surface of the seal. Interestingly I have no signs of the bubbling corrosion on the front of the roof but lots on the sides.

 

[SusiBus]

Mine was the same, only bubbling down the sides.

 

[Grey one]

Ok tried to fit the new defective seal temporarily this morning with silicone grease as off to Merribel next week . Problem . Because the new seal hadn't been fitted before and formed the memory shape particularly of the front of the roof it was too slippery to fit when silicone grease applied and I was in hurry . So I've refitted my old seal temporarily with silicone grease in the areas which have corrosion / slight bubbling which worked fine . I then went round the top edge of the seal and filled the gap with silicone grease hopefully to keep water out . Took about an hour . I've now emailed my dealer and asked where we go from here .

Once again, thanks for taking the time to do this.

 

[RichardP]

Mine was the same, only bubbling down the sides.

Same on my T5, lots on the sides and corners, almost none on the front and rear.

I thought it was possibly due to the orientation of the seal. The U on the seal faces up on the sides an will hold water. On the front it's rotated 90 degrees and water will tend to run out. At the back it's slightly higher so water will tend to run to the sides.

 

[Martin Batt]

Don't cancel - if you've decided to buy then stick with it. This doesn't happen to every single vehicle and Snowy's experience is probably at the extreme end of what can happen. Snowy - you have our sympathies and I fully understand your decisions (will we expect to hear an MP review any time soon?)

We have a 2014 vehicle from after they reckoned they've sorted the problem and no issues so far - madly touching wood here....

The Cali is a brilliant vehicle - just read some of Granny Jen's posts.

You may be right, Simon and Jane, but I've just been out and checked our June 2016 T6 Ocean and is has tiny bubbles all the way along under the rubber seal... Here we go.

 

[thehorse]

You may be right, Simon and Jane, but I've just been out and checked our June 2016 T6 Ocean and is has tiny bubbles all the way along under the rubber seal... Here we go.

Sorry to hear that Martin.

So it looks like 3/5 or 60% of Calis checked so far have corrosion.

Interesting that that is the same incidence found at the COTF event where 89 T5s were examined and 55 had corrosion (62%). This would have had older Calis so would have expected the T6 incidence to be much lower at this stage.

I think the overall conclusion for me is VW have made absolutely no progress on this issue.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You may be right, Simon and Jane, but I've just been out and checked our June 2016 T6 Ocean and is has tiny bubbles all the way along under the rubber seal... Here we go.

Very, very annoying. Please let us all know how you get on with your dealer and the repairs.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Sorry to hear that Martin.

So it looks like 3/5 or 60% of Calis checked so far have corrosion.

Interesting that that is the same incidence found at the COTF event where 89 T5s were examined and 55 had corrosion (62%). This would have had older Calis so would have expected the T6 incidence to be much lower at this stage.

I think the overall conclusion for me is VW have made absolutely no progress on this issue.

I have details of 7/8 inspections with corrosion reports on 3/4 of them. So between 42% and 50%.

I agree that the overall conclusion you make must be the case.

 

[Grumposaur68]

You may be right, Simon and Jane, but I've just been out and checked our June 2016 T6 Ocean and is has tiny bubbles all the way along under the rubber seal... Here we go.

Hi Martin Not sure if you have seen the question I asked the other day. When you peeled back the roof seal, were there any signs of an adhesive of any sorts ?

 

[Martin Batt]

Hi Martin Not sure if you have seen the question I asked the other day. When you peeled back the roof seal, were there any signs of an adhesive of any sorts ?

Hi there Grumposaur! No sign of any adhesive at all, but lots of grit and moisture had collected inside the seal. I'm sure 28 hrs on the ferry back from Santander on an open deck will have added to the cocktail of compounds that would react with aluminium in that confined space. Interestingly, no corrosion was evident on the front section where water presumably drains away relatively well. Horrified to see the images posted of bare rusted metal (probably steel wire) within the U-section of the rubber surround. Appalling quality control... Needless to say, a call and email to VW York will be made very soon. This is after the melting awning in France, of course. Great! Might go back to a tent.

 

[Jabberwocky]

View attachment 18625 View attachment 18623 View attachment 18619 View attachment 18620 Ok . I've had my second new seal today and just checked it under mag x5 at home before fitting . Sadly as I expected this seal is exactly the same . Visible wire in numerous places in the front straight section of the rubber . This appears to be corroded steel but I'm not entirely sure . It's definitely not aluminium . It's orange almost copper / rust coloured with something that appears to be corrosion . I'll try to take x50 pictures over the weekend . I don't blame my dealer at all . Just had first service today . Excellent service . Clearly there is a big quality control issue here . Naked eye would not pick this up . These are the labels off the latest packaging . I'm off to Merribel in van in next few days and then Dubai ( not in van ! ) so will not be able to follow this up for about a month . Don't know which seal to refit but will have to do it tomorrow with silicone grease

Trebor, Many thanks for photos. Could you do me a favour? Are you going to keep your old seal? Please don't thow it a way. Can you cut a small length, say 4/5 inches and post it to me - I will PM you my address if you agree. (I think sbmcd has asked the same but I want to be able to take a physical example to VW)

 

[Trebor]

Trebor, Many thanks for photos. Could you do me a favour? Are you going to keep your old seal? Please don't thow it a way. Can you cut a small length, say 4/5 inches and post it to me - I will PM you my address if you agree. (I think sbmcd has asked the same but I want to be able to take a physical example to VW)

Hello yes but please read my last . I have temporarily refitted my old seal with silicone grease . We're off to Merribel and then Dubai ( Brother in law's 60th ) will post when I hear back from VW dealer .

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hello yes but please read my last . I have temporarily refitted my old seal with silicone grease . We're off to Merribel and then Dubai ( Brother in law's 60th ) will post when I hear back from VW dealer .

Thanks Trebor. Enjoy the skiing and the Birthday!

 

[SusiBus]

The following text was included in a letter we sent to the VW Group Managing Director in July 2014 (at which time discussions/correspondence about roof corrosion had been going on for over 18 months!

………. “ A similar corrosion situation exists with the elevating roof section where the corrosion progresses more slowly - initially out of sight under the roof seal.The club believes that this again is due to electrochemical corrosion between the aluminium roof and the metal inserts in the rubber roof seal with water ingression in the seal acting as a catalyst. Owners with this problem are currently having the corrosion repaired under the 3 year paintwork warranty which, I quote, “as with any bodywork repair within our paint and bodywork network the workmanship is guaranteed for 3 years” (letter dated 13th June 2014 from Lee Manuel Customer Care VW Commercial Vehicles)

In the circumstances, we feel VW should:

“As a matter of urgency modify the rubber seal which goes around the elevating roof so that it does not contain a metal insert in order to negate the risk of corrosion occurrence………”

So 2.5 years on, what is the situation?

1. New model ( T6 ) fitted with the same roof seal,
2. Corrosion bubbles already appearing under the seal on T6’s,
3. New replacement seals already showing rust within,
4. VW facing £500 + to respray T6 roofs as well as T5's

Perhaps it's not the seal that is the cause of the problem. Surely if it was as easy as replacing the seal VW would have done it! Or is VW a company that no longer has the attributes of German efficiency?

Come on VW, we love our Cali’s, and want confidence restored!

 

[Digger]

The following text was included in a letter we sent to the VW Group Managing Director in July 2014 (at which time discussions/correspondence about roof corrosion had been going on for over 18 months!

………. “ A similar corrosion situation exists with the elevating roof section where the corrosion progresses more slowly - initially out of sight under the roof seal.The club believes that this again is due to electrochemical corrosion between the aluminium roof and the metal inserts in the rubber roof seal with water ingression in the seal acting as a catalyst. Owners with this problem are currently having the corrosion repaired under the 3 year paintwork warranty which, I quote, “as with any bodywork repair within our paint and bodywork network the workmanship is guaranteed for 3 years” (letter dated 13th June 2014 from Lee Manuel Customer Care VW Commercial Vehicles)

In the circumstances, we feel VW should:

“As a matter of urgency modify the rubber seal which goes around the elevating roof so that it does not contain a metal insert in order to negate the risk of corrosion occurrence………”

So 2.5 years on, what is the situation?

1. New model ( T6 ) fitted with the same roof seal,
2. Corrosion bubbles already appearing under the seal on T6’s,
3. New replacement seals already showing rust within,
4. VW facing £500 + to respray T6 roofs as well as T5's

Perhaps it's not the seal that is the cause of the problem. Surely if it was as easy as replacing the seal VW would have done it! Or is VW a company that no longer has the attributes of German efficiency?

Come on VW, we love our Cali’s, and want confidence restored!

This may make you smile if you read it

http://www.volkswagenag.com/en/group/research/materials-and-manufacturing-methods.html

 

[JonnieBoy]

The following text was included in a letter we sent to the VW Group Managing Director in July 2014 (at which time discussions/correspondence about roof corrosion had been going on for over 18 months!

………. “ A similar corrosion situation exists with the elevating roof section where the corrosion progresses more slowly - initially out of sight under the roof seal.The club believes that this again is due to electrochemical corrosion between the aluminium roof and the metal inserts in the rubber roof seal with water ingression in the seal acting as a catalyst. Owners with this problem are currently having the corrosion repaired under the 3 year paintwork warranty which, I quote, “as with any bodywork repair within our paint and bodywork network the workmanship is guaranteed for 3 years” (letter dated 13th June 2014 from Lee Manuel Customer Care VW Commercial Vehicles)

In the circumstances, we feel VW should:

“As a matter of urgency modify the rubber seal which goes around the elevating roof so that it does not contain a metal insert in order to negate the risk of corrosion occurrence………”

So 2.5 years on, what is the situation?

1. New model ( T6 ) fitted with the same roof seal,
2. Corrosion bubbles already appearing under the seal on T6’s,
3. New replacement seals already showing rust within,
4. VW facing £500 + to respray T6 roofs as well as T5's

Perhaps it's not the seal that is the cause of the problem. Surely if it was as easy as replacing the seal VW would have done it! Or is VW a company that no longer has the attributes of German efficiency?

Come on VW, we love our Cali’s, and want confidence restored!

Can I ask if there was ever a formal reply from VW regarding this letter?

 

[ArunAlec]

This may make you smile if you read it

http://www.volkswagenag.com/en/group/research/materials-and-manufacturing-methods.html

They must be having a laugh!
What a load of twaddle!

 

[snowy55]

The following text was included in a letter we sent to the VW Group Managing Director in July 2014 (at which time discussions/correspondence about roof corrosion had been going on for over 18 months!

………. “ A similar corrosion situation exists with the elevating roof section where the corrosion progresses more slowly - initially out of sight under the roof seal.The club believes that this again is due to electrochemical corrosion between the aluminium roof and the metal inserts in the rubber roof seal with water ingression in the seal acting as a catalyst. Owners with this problem are currently having the corrosion repaired under the 3 year paintwork warranty which, I quote, “as with any bodywork repair within our paint and bodywork network the workmanship is guaranteed for 3 years” (letter dated 13th June 2014 from Lee Manuel Customer Care VW Commercial Vehicles)

In the circumstances, we feel VW should:

“As a matter of urgency modify the rubber seal which goes around the elevating roof so that it does not contain a metal insert in order to negate the risk of corrosion occurrence………”

So 2.5 years on, what is the situation?

1. New model ( T6 ) fitted with the same roof seal,
2. Corrosion bubbles already appearing under the seal on T6’s,
3. New replacement seals already showing rust within,
4. VW facing £500 + to respray T6 roofs as well as T5's

Perhaps it's not the seal that is the cause of the problem. Surely if it was as easy as replacing the seal VW would have done it! Or is VW a company that no longer has the attributes of German efficiency?

Come on VW, we love our Cali’s, and want confidence restored!

The part of the letter about the 3 year warranty on paintwork repairs needs reconfirming in writing from somebody in authority.
Our experience is they now only give 1 year warranty on repairs.
Sorry to bring negatively but Vw can't be trusted on this issue and we all need to keep a very close eye on what they tell us either individually and as a group.