Discussion regarding T6 ONLY roof corrosion

[Bramco]

Do I have to start peeling back the rubber seal?

I wouldn't - yours should have the tape applied - it forms a seal between the rubber and steal seal and the aluminium roof. The corrosion starts in the presence of water when a piece of steel from the seal pokes through the rubber, thus coming in contact with the aluminium roof - unless the tape is in place of course. Which is now the case as it is done as the vans are manufactured.

 

[Pips Dad]

I wouldn't - yours should have the tape applied - it forms a seal between the rubber and steal seal and the aluminium roof. The corrosion starts in the presence of water when a piece of steel from the seal pokes through the rubber, thus coming in contact with the aluminium roof - unless the tape is in place of course. Which is now the case as it is done as the vans are manufactured.

Am I missing something here?
The photos I have seen on this thread show bubbles which would indicate corrosion coming from the inside of the double skinning on the edge of the roof. There did not appear to be any damage to the surface of the paint caused by the steel content of rubber seal scratching the paint surface through to the aluminium roof as you suggest.
I bet if you pressed the bubbled paint, water would shoot out confirming my suspicions that it could be coming from within.
I may be wrong of course, but I have had experience of exactly the same type of corrosion on the doors of Landrover Defenders I have owned, where the internal steel frame holds dampness against the aluminium outer skin. Bi metallic corrosion is then set up causing corrosion to appear as bubbles on the paint where the skin has been perforated.

 

[burnercan]

Still can’t see how applying sticky tape stops...corrosion coming through.

It won't, it's a band-aid on cancer.

a piece of steel from the seal pokes through the rubber

And if it does, the piece of tape is unlikely to hold back the piece of steel that pierced the piece of rubber in the first place. It's a lame excuse for a repair on a flawed design, but I love mine anyway

The only real solution to this problem is to remove one of the dissimilar metals, I'd choose the steel retainer in the seal to go, or remove the electrolyte allowing the reaction to take place. Maybe drill some small drain holes in the U profile of the seal to allow accumulated water to drain out and use some waxy anti-corrosion treatment like LPS-3 or Dinitrol around the edge of the roof in the U profile.

 

[Pips Dad]

It won't, it's a band-aid on cancer.



And if it does, the piece of tape is unlikely to hold back the piece of steel that pierced the piece of rubber in the first place. It's a lame excuse for a repair on a flawed design, but I love mine anyway

The only real solution to this problem is to remove one of the dissimilar metals, I'd choose the steel retainer in the seal to go, or remove the electrolyte allowing the reaction to take place. Maybe drill some small drain holes in the U profile of the seal to allow accumulated water to drain out and use some waxy anti-corrosion treatment like LPS-3 or Dinitrol around the edge of the roof in the U profile.

Yes the wax treatment can help I bet. I have injected many of my previous vehicles with anti rust wax sprays and they have been very effective at holding off the rust bug.
Not sure I want to drill my new Cali yet though as the warranty would be void.
I just need to understand what might happen to my very expensive camper!

Removing the dissimilar metals by VW would help, (as Landrover did with the Defender) but that would mean a steel lifting roof which would creat other problems, I assume.

 

[WelshGas]

Will this affect my 4 month old Ocean? I wonder? Do I have to start peeling back the rubber seal?
Still can’t see how applying sticky tape stops what looks like from the photos I’ve seen, internal corrosion coming through.

It is Not Internal Corrosion, it is Galvanic Corrosion caused by the interaction between 2 dissimilar metals in the presence of water acting as an electrolyte. In this case the Aluminium of the Elevating Roof and the steel insert in the seal around the edge of the roof.
This is something that is common in vehicles with Aluminium body panels. The Landrover Series 1 all the way through to the last of the Defenders suffered from it, almost 60 yrs of production.

 

[burnercan]

Not sure I want to drill my new Cali

I wouldn't drill my Cali yet either, just the removable rubber seal. Google tells me replacements roof seals are about £100, so could afford to keep a nice new one on hand for show..

 

[Loz]

I know 46 pages is quite a big topic, but all this has already been covered if you have a read back..

 

[Keith Smith]

I have bubbling paint where there is absolutely no sign of the steel coming through the rubber seal, and where the steel has come through at the front corner, enough to completely discolour and stain the paint, there is little bubbling. The worst area is the front edge where I believe VW are not applying tape, so I have no faith that the tape will do anything. VW need to use a different, and probably less eco friendly, paint, until they do that we can only watch and wait for the inevitable.

 

[Pips Dad]

It is Not Internal Corrosion, it is Galvanic Corrosion caused by the interaction between 2 dissimilar metals in the presence of water acting as an electrolyte. In this case the Aluminium of the Elevating Roof and the steel insert in the seal around the edge of the roof.
This is something that is common in vehicles with Aluminium body panels. The Landrover Series 1 all the way through to the last of the Defenders suffered from it, almost 60 yrs of production.

As I said previously if it is the same as the old Landrover problem the corrosion is coming from the inside. The later Defenders had steel panels on the doors to prevent this ans it worked. So unless the steel in the rubber seal has damaged the paintwork the corrosion I have seen in the photos is coming from within.
I have had Defenders all my life and am well aware of the problems with the earlier models.

 

[WelshGas]

As I said previously if it is the same as the old Landrover problem the corrosion is coming from the inside. The later Defenders had steel panels on the doors to prevent this ans it worked. So unless the steel in the rubber seal has damaged the paintwork the corrosion I have seen in the photos is coming from within.
I have had Defenders all my life and am well aware of the problems with the earlier models.

Well my last Puma had the same problem on the rear, so still not solved.
Fortunately for me, my 2014 SE has absolutely no evidence of this problem. It is not garaged, used all year round and was pristine under the seal when the recall was carried out. So why are some affected and others not?
With 15,000 Forum members I’m surprised that there are not more individual vehicles affected but this would not seem to be the case.

 

[Keith Smith]

So why are some affected and others not?
With 15,000 Forum members I’m surprised that there are not more individual vehicles affected but this would not seem to be the case.

This is what VW should be looking at, why some vehicles remain unaffected. It makes me wonder if the roof is outsourced and is supplied by different manufacturers but only VW are in a position to investigate and they seem not to care.

 

[Pips Dad]

This is what VW should be looking at, why some vehicles remain unaffected. It makes me wonder if the roof is outsourced and is supplied by different manufacturers but only VW are in a position to investigate and they seem not to care.

I agree that this should be sorted by the manufacturer.
My Cali is only 4 months old so I have no issues yet. It is worrying though, when you read all the problems people have had with this problem and the fix seems to be to apply some sticky tape. You couldn’t make it up could you? On £50k plus vehicle at that!

 

[Pips Dad]

I have bubbling paint where there is absolutely no sign of the steel coming through the rubber seal, and where the steel has come through at the front corner, enough to completely discolour and stain the paint, there is little bubbling. The worst area is the front edge where I believe VW are not applying tape, so I have no faith that the tape will do anything. VW need to use a different, and probably less eco friendly, paint, until they do that we can only watch and wait for the inevitable.

Keith, this seems to back up my theory that the problem is coming from within.
My views are deduced from looking at some of the photos I have seen and not from personal experience as my Cali is only a few months old and I don’t want to start pulling the seal off at the moment.

 

[Keith Smith]

Keith, this seems to back up my theory that the problem is coming from within.
My views are deduced from looking at some of the photos I have seen and not from personal experience as my Cali is only a few months old and I don’t want to start pulling the seal off at the moment.

My paint will just peel off in places, the top coats that is, leaving the primer exposed, so they have a serious problem with their paint process. I'm just hoping that I'm one of the lucky ones and get a durable roof on the one I've just ordered. If not that will be me done with VW.

 

[sbmcd]

Am I missing something here?
The photos I have seen on this thread show bubbles which would indicate corrosion coming from the inside of the double skinning on the edge of the roof. There did not appear to be any damage to the surface of the paint caused by the steel content of rubber seal scratching the paint surface through to the aluminium roof as you suggest.
I bet if you pressed the bubbled paint, water would shoot out confirming my suspicions that it could be coming from within.
I may be wrong of course, but I have had experience of exactly the same type of corrosion on the doors of Landrover Defenders I have owned, where the internal steel frame holds dampness against the aluminium outer skin. Bi metallic corrosion is then set up causing corrosion to appear as bubbles on the paint where the skin has been perforated.

Since the paint is unbroken at the bubbles I doubt very much if there is any moisture inside.

 

[Pips Dad]

Since the paint is unbroken at the bubbles I doubt very much if there is any moisture inside.

But that is how internal corrosion manifests itself. I bet if a bubble was pressed, you would get water squirting out.
Try it.

 

[sbmcd]

But that is how internal corrosion manifests itself. I bet if a bubble was pressed, you would get water squirting out.
Try it.

Where do you suggest the water would come from?

 

[Pips Dad]

Where do you suggest the water would come from?

From the inside of the double skinned roof edge. Condensation within etc.
I’ve never seen paint bubble like in the photos unless it’s coming from within.
If it was poor paint finish the whole of the roof would be affected surely?
From what I have seen it’s on the lower edge where trapped moisture would collect and if two different metals are involved in the construction at this point you have the necessary conditions for galvanic corrosion.
Ive seen this many times on my old Landrover.

 

[Marc Oldman]

Out of interest - I asked Robinsons Norwich for copies of the photos they took as evidence of the inspection. I thought they’d be good to keep on file - though are probably more valuable to anyone who’s told their vehicle doesn’t need work - should any issues crop up post.

As an aside, when looking at the photos myself, given the apparent extent of the work that needs to be done, I’d say any corrosion looked minimal / negligible. Certainly seeing the pictures with my own eyes has given me comfort that any corrosion on mine is far from terminal... (I even pondered whether to try to negotiate a settlement with VW as an alternative to major work being done on it. Has anyone else considered this?)

 

[iamchucky]

Taking our van into Eurovans (Crawley) to get checked with it's MOT. In case it has the corrosion - has anyone here had the corrosion fixed at Eurovans (Crawley) and were they happy with the works?

 

[burnercan]

Nice sunny day so I thought I’d take a look under the seal. It’s built in March 2018, so has the tape. You can see the condensation being formed and held in under the tape.

What a great fix they’ve come up with, ensuring the electrolyte stays in good contact with the anode so it can corrode more completely. It looks like their plan for customer satisfaction is to have corrosion before the warranty is up so they can then attempt repair and say they’ve done their bit. Swell.


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[Meoncoast]

https://www.marcopoloownersclub.com/index.php?threads/tiny-blisters-on-roof.531/

 

[Stoneybroke]

I've had the recall.
The papers say foil applied.
Washing the Cali last weekend, had the roof up. Some build up of gunge around the seal, carefully wiping it and the seal came off.
No sign of any tape...
I am awaiting a response from the dealer...

Edited for some late night auto corrects!

 

[SusiBus]

Interesting!
Disappointing!
Possibly even appalling!
Please try to get a detailed response from the dealer and let us know the outcome.

 

[Stoneybroke]

I've had the recall.
The papers say foil applied.
Washing the Cali last weekend, had the roof up. Some build up of gunge around the seal, carefully wiping it and the seal came off.
No sign of any tape...
I am awaiting a response from the dealer...

Response received.
The recall is not carried out if the vehicle has had a previous “California roof paintwork repair” which includes a repair of the pop up roof where required. As on your history there is a log for “roof repair” the technician has assumed the roof repair has been carried out and therefore did not remove the seal….

Now having realised the it was the nose cone only that was repaired – the recall is still outstanding.

Arrangements in hand to do the job properly.

The nose cone repair referred to was abrasion related. VW accepted a white line was Paint rubbing off the nose cone where the pop up roof rested. This was due to a misalignment at the factory. Roof realligned and paint repaired last year. So despite the paperwork stating the foil had been applied, it hadn't been.

Lesson for others - check when you get it back.