France in August?

[Amarillo]

Therefore that Table is meaningless.


With Hindsight - possibly. With Foresight - disagree.

Not knowing the level of asymptomatic testing doesn't make the table meaningless, but does make it more of a guide than a definitive result.

Here's the same table with a column for overall tests put in, and as you can see, Britain has carried out many more tests per head of population than most other comparable countries - an exception being Denmark which has does four times as many as Britain.

But I think this says much about Britain's handling of the pandemic - looking more towards testing as a way out rather than early interventions such as tightening borders, face masks, early lockdowns, etc.

And it is still not known how much asymptomatic people transmit the virus.

 

[WelshGas]

Not knowing the level of asymptomatic testing doesn't make the table meaningless, but does make it more of a guide than a definitive result.

Here's the same table with a column for overall tests put in, and as you can see, Britain has carried out many more tests per head of population than most other comparable countries - an exception being Denmark which has does four times as many as Britain.

But I think this says much about Britain's handling of the pandemic - looking more towards testing as a way out rather than early interventions such as tightening borders, face masks, early lockdowns, etc.

And it is still not known how much asymptomatic people transmit the virus.

View attachment 80341

So does this table of yours include the Lateral Flow Tests done by school children, employees etc, or only the PCR tests?
As I’ve said, a meaningless table if you are not comparing like with like.

 

[Amarillo]

So does this table of yours include the Lateral Flow Tests done by school children, employees etc, or only the PCR tests?
As I’ve said, a meaningless table if you are not comparing like with like.

As far as I know they are the official figures released by each country. I’d certainly be wary about considering them definitive, but they are of use as a guide.

 

[WelshGas]

As far as I know they are the official figures released by each country. I’d certainly be wary about considering them definitive, but they are of use as a guide.

A guide to what, exactly?

 

[Amarillo]

A guide to what, exactly?

See the header row.

Even for the population, different countries will have different methods of counting population. It is not a definitive count for any country.

 

[WelshGas]

See the header row.

Even for the population, different countries will have different methods of counting population. It is not a definitive count for any country.

So making any comparison is meaningless unless each country uses the same definitions for the data collection?

 

[Mickyb123]

Interesting headline in the times with regards to travellers and infection rate.
1 in 200 travellers from amber list countries tested positive.
Suggests that people who travel and come into the country are probably more aware of transmission risk than those in comfort of their own home environment, or take more care when they are away.
Think the scenes on TV at the moment showing the crowds jammed into fan zones watching the strange round ball sport do show that some folk don’t care however.

 

[WelshGas]

Interesting headline in the times with regards to travellers and infection rate.
1 in 200 travellers from amber list countries tested positive.
Suggests that people who travel and come into the country are probably more aware of transmission risk than those in comfort of their own home environment, or take more care when they are away.
Think the scenes on TV at the moment showing the crowds jammed into fan zones watching the strange round ball sport do show that some folk don’t care however.

I would think anyone on holiday etc; would be very careful as if their pre-travel test was + then they would be refused travel, have to quarentine for 14 days or so, at their expense, and take more tests before they could travel and still quarentine on arrival back in UK. An expensive business.

 

[Amarillo]

So making any comparison is meaningless unless each country uses the same definitions for the data collection?

No, it is not meaningless. They are the figures each country report and can be compared as such.

It would be wrong to consider them direct comparisons, but equally wrong to consider them meaningless: they all have a meaning.

 

[clarinetbcn]

So making any comparison is meaningless unless each country uses the same definitions for the data collection?

There is a lot of interesting data in that chart for someone who is interested in exploring what is going on, and is aware of the differences in reporting. It is only meaningless to someone who has already decided what he believes, and discards any information that doesn't coincide with those beliefs. This is what happened with your "It won't happen here" posts of March last year, in spite of the information pouring in from the countries that had already been affected.

 

[WelshGas]

There is a lot of interesting data in that chart for someone who is interested in exploring what is going on, and is aware of the differences in reporting. It is only meaningless to someone who has already decided what he believes, and discards any information that doesn't coincide with those beliefs. This is what happened with your "It won't happen here" posts of March last year, in spite of the information pouring in from the countries that had already been affected.

Yeah, yeah, here we go again. The same old drivel from someone who has spent their working life reading and evaluating scientific data., sorry, musical scores.
The only meaningful data in that spreadsheet is comparison per country over time. Comparison between countries is meaningless unless they use a standard definition for each data set.
We also didn't have the same Lockdown as many other Western countries. We were allowed to exercise, outside and collect chickens. Nor did we have to fill in forms to go to the shops and neither were their armed patrols in the street to check those forms.

 

[clarinetbcn]

We were allowed to collect chickens.

OMG, Hahahahahahahahaha!
Something you want to share? Personally, I collect music scores.
Made my day!

 

[Velma's Dad]

OMG, Hahahahahahahahaha!
Something you want to share? Personally, I collect music scores.
Made my day!

I suspect you were away from the forum doing something more interesting then during Amarillo's "leaving home to collect chickens will I won't I" thread which seemed (to me) to occupy much of the forum's page count during UK lockdown one last year and its subsequent judicial review (very probably). You don't want to go back there. Trust me.

 

[WelshGas]

OMG, Hahahahahahahahaha!
Something you want to share? Personally, I collect music scores.
Made my day!

Talk to @Amarillo and maybe he can fill you in on his reasoning that it was permissible to travel during lockdown.

 

[GrannyJen]

OMG, Hahahahahahahahaha!
Something you want to share? Personally, I collect music scores.
Made my day!

Probably the most eggciting thread of lock down 1.

Certainly caused feathers to fly.

 

[Amarillo]

Yeah, yeah, here we go again. The same old drivel from someone who has spent their working life reading and evaluating scientific data., sorry, musical scores.
The only meaningful data in that spreadsheet is comparison per country over time. Comparison between countries is meaningless unless they use a standard definition for each data set.
We also didn't have the same Lockdown as many other Western countries. We were allowed to exercise, outside and collect chickens. Nor did we have to fill in forms to go to the shops and neither were their armed patrols in the street to check those forms.

Your extreme form of nationalism doesn’t do you an favours. Dismiss the figures if you like, but whatever you say, this country has not managed the pandemic well. Late to lock down, late to restrict travel and late to mandate face masks.

lockdown itself, encouraging daily exercise (and allowing chicken farms to trade), was probably right in its degree of harshness. Putting the vaccine rollout into the hands of the JCVI and NHS was a stroke of genius. And the testing regime is working well. But the figures showing Britain at #15 worst in Europe for deaths per million is probably reasonably accurate, though I have serious doubts over Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, among others.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Talk to @Amarillo and maybe he can fill you in on his reasoning that it was permissible to travel during lockdown.

Short memory?

Happy Things/Thoughts/Videos/Jokes

Talking of chickens, we never did get an update on the egg production front, or have I missed something.

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[WelshGas]

Your extreme form of nationalism doesn’t do you an favours. Dismiss the figures if you like, but whatever you say, this country has not managed the pandemic well. Late to lock down, late to restrict travel and late to mandate face masks.

lockdown itself, encouraging daily exercise (and allowing chicken farms to trade), was probably right in its degree of harshness. Putting the vaccine rollout into the hands of the JCVI and NHS was a stroke of genius. And the testing regime is working well. But the figures showing Britain at #15 worst in Europe for deaths per million is probably reasonably accurate, though I have serious doubts over Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, among others.

What has ” extreme form of nationalism “ got to do with it. What a pathetic comment from someone who should know better and who is an ” expert “ in producing spreadsheets to uphold his own view.
I don’t care if we are Nos 1 or Nos 30 , but I do care about accuracy and unless every country in that spreadsheet is using the same definitions for each dataset then it is meaningless . Compare a country over time - fine, but comparison between countries is meaningless, no matter what you and your followers maintain.

Try reading this.

How comparable is COVID-19 mortality across countries? – Cross-Country Analysis

 

[Amarillo]

What has ” extreme form of nationalism “ got to do with it. What a pathetic comment from someone who should know better and who is an ” expert “ in producing spreadsheets to uphold his own view.
I don’t care if we are Nos 1 or Nos 30 , but I do care about accuracy and unless every country in that spreadsheet is using the same definitions for each dataset then it is meaningless . Compare a country over time - fine, but comparison between countries is meaningless, no matter what you and your followers maintain.

Try reading this.

How comparable is COVID-19 mortality across countries? – Cross-Country Analysis

Do you think that our government dismiss official national figures on infections when deciding which countries should go on the Green, Amber and Red lists for travel. Or do you think they use them as a guide to come to their decisions?

 

[andyinluton]

The only statistic that really impresses me is the 75 million doses of vaccine given in the UK since December.

 

[subthree]

Feels like I am back in the playground when I was at Primary School.

 

[WelshGas]

Do you think that our government dismiss official national figures on infections when deciding which countries should go on the Green, Amber and Red lists for travel. Or do you think they use them as a guide to come to their decisions?

I think they have more information than you or I have when coming to their decisions.
Not that difficult to make a correction algorithm to take account of different methods of collecting data to correct, to some extent, for differences in definition.

 

[WelshGas]

Feels like I am back in the playground when I was at Primary School.

Well it is a playground for some. But accuracy matters.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Saying "comparison between countries is meaningless" is ridiculous, in this context and most others. Analysis across datasets that use differing definitions is a fundamental of public health and other emergency management (it's something I had to do repeatedly when I worked for 15+ years in humanitarian information management internationally). It requires careful assessment of, and triangulation between, sources. You can never assume any two datasets are identical either semantically or in data collection processes, whether within a jurisdiction or cross-nationally, and sometimes you have to make assumptions when metadata is limited. But that doesn't mean you can't do intelligent comparisons, and little would ever get done with data if we took that view.

 

[Amarillo]

I think they have more information than you or I have when coming to their decisions.
Not that difficult to make a correction algorithm to take account of different methods of collecting data to correct, to some extent, for differences in definition.

My question was not about whether they have more information or not: on that point we can agree that they do.

My question was whether you think our government dismiss national figures as meaningless (as you appear to) or do they use them as a guide to make decisions.