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Help! Wonky roof when lowering

KGCali

KGCali

Retired and still young at heart!
VIP Member
Messages
226
Location
Essex
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
Hello all. My van went in today and they have declared it not a fault! They have said that the last 7-8 inches when it is swapping from one mechanism to another it is quite normal to fall slightly to one side. They have confirmed this with VW central dept and compared against two other Van's in workshop. Before I collect in 2hrs are there any thoughts? I asked why they hadn't mentioned this when I reported the problem and they said they thought that the fault was over the entire drop which is an issue?!?
Show them this video of the roof operation from VW, can't see any wonky roof on closing at 5'30"
 
A

Amplefosters

VIP Member
Messages
11
Location
Towcester, Northamptonshire
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 199
I did show them that and they agreed that it wasn’t like mine but said it wasn’t a fault. They showed me another van in stock and it did exactly the same as mine. What with the impending closure of the garage I decided that I wanted the van back and said that whilst I wasn’t convinced it was resolved, it was at least registered with them as a problem. If anyone else has the same issue and gets it resolved, please can you advise what the problem was. Thanks
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
1,689
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
My roof dropped at the left side on warm weather. I had to pump up again and then lower it again. Most of the time the left side closed first, and then the right side.
Now, with my new hydraulic pump, when I open the roof, the left side gets slightly behind. So the right side is already completely opened and then the left side opens just a second later.
When lowering, I thought it was the right side that drops a bit more, but suddenly the left side drops an inch and then the roof closes almost equally.
I must say I have a new roof installed in 2015 due to corrosion (anyone heard of that?), so I am not sure if the roof is bolted exact on the same length left and right. Maybe one side is more to the front than the other (as I see the sealing of the roof isn't exactly placed the same left and right on the front spoiler (but that was replaced too, so I have no reference). I might have to measure if the roof is left and right bolted on the same place.

Yes I have a wonky lowering roof, but as long as it doesn't sag anymore, I am more than happy (for now).
I might have a look if everything is mounted correctly.
 
CaliBear

CaliBear

VIP Member
Messages
94
Location
Northamptonshire
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 150
When we took ours in f
I did show them that and they agreed that it wasn’t like mine but said it wasn’t a fault. They showed me another van in stock and it did exactly the same as mine. What with the impending closure of the garage I decided that I wanted the van back and said that whilst I wasn’t convinced it was resolved, it was at least registered with them as a problem. If anyone else has the same issue and gets it resolved, please can you advise what the problem was. Thanks
We had a similar issue with the dealer we took our van too for this fault. First they said why would we stop lowering the roof part way down (we like to check the bellows don't get caught), then they tried the whole other Oceans we have do it so it's normal routine, which when we went to collect and compare with other Van's funny enough they were lowering evenly. They then palmed us off with the roof being within tolerance, but wouldn't tell us what these tolerances were. Pretty disappointed and feel fobbed off when it's a brand new van. Almost seems like VW don't want to uphold any warranty claims and are making things difficult for dealers to claim back the cost of the repair work.
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
1,689
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
I filmed my wonky roof operation.
Before, the left side of the roof was sagging in warm weather. Even when lifting up the roof, it was always the left side that was a little behind. When stopping halfway you could see the uneven roof.
Now, when lifting it's still the left side that is behind.
Today I showered my van and while the sun was out, I left the roof open for a small pressure test.
It seems all ok now. No sagging (yet).
This film is after a half day with the roof up.
Now you can see the right side lowering faster than the left side. Suddenly the right side stops, and then the left side jams in place to close close to even (right side still a little faster).
Might be the right ram that has had the best of it's life? I already replaced the left ram and the hydraulic pump.

Anyway, enjoy my wonky roof!

 
CaliBear

CaliBear

VIP Member
Messages
94
Location
Northamptonshire
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 150
I filmed my wonky roof operation.
Before, the left side of the roof was sagging in warm weather. Even when lifting up the roof, it was always the left side that was a little behind. When stopping halfway you could see the uneven roof.
Now, when lifting it's still the left side that is behind.
Today I showered my van and while the sun was out, I left the roof open for a small pressure test.
It seems all ok now. No sagging (yet).
This film is after a half day with the roof up.
Now you can see the right side lowering faster than the left side. Suddenly the right side stops, and then the left side jams in place to close close to even (right side still a little faster).
Might be the right ram that has had the best of it's life? I already replaced the left ram and the hydraulic pump.

Anyway, enjoy my wonky roof!

Ha, thanks for the vid! That is wonky. I take it the roof works ok in this state and locks down properly and hasn't caused the roof to twist?

If you don't mind me asking do you know when your roof started doing this?
Mine like Amplefosters has been doing it pretty much from new (late 2019).
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
1,689
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
My roof sagged in the beginning (don't know exactly when, but probably within 2 years) after a day or 3 on the left side (my driver's side, your passenger's side).
After roof corrosion repairing in 2015 where the complete roof and front spoiler had been replaced, it was about immediately after a couple of hours in sunny weather (heat on the rams, hoses and roof where the pump is) that the left side started to sag.
I then replaced the left ram as that was a lot cheaper than the pump.
This didn't help, so eventually I replaced the pump on the first of february this year (2020), and since then this wonky behaviour is present.
So the only thing that hasn't been replaced yet is the right ram.
Might be worth changing that one too.
The roof isn't twisted yet, or it doesn't look like it's twisted yet.
 
CaliBear

CaliBear

VIP Member
Messages
94
Location
Northamptonshire
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 150
My roof sagged in the beginning (don't know exactly when, but probably within 2 years) after a day or 3 on the left side (my driver's side, your passenger's side).
After roof corrosion repairing in 2015 where the complete roof and front spoiler had been replaced, it was about immediately after a couple of hours in sunny weather (heat on the rams, hoses and roof where the pump is) that the left side started to sag.
I then replaced the left ram as that was a lot cheaper than the pump.
This didn't help, so eventually I replaced the pump on the first of february this year (2020), and since then this wonky behaviour is present.
So the only thing that hasn't been replaced yet is the right ram.
Might be worth changing that one too.
The roof isn't twisted yet, or it doesn't look like it's twisted yet.
Damn that sounds expensive! Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it and at least it hasn't twisted the roof. It's not great at any age of vehicle, but just annoying when it's on a brand new van and it seems we are either being fobbed off or all Oceans do this?
Will have to play it by ear and see what happens while it's under warranty.
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
1,689
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
I still have the replaced left ram laying around.
I might try to change the right ram to see what it does then.
As I have a lot of spare time now, it isn't impossible to try to figure things out.
I'll keep you boys and girls updated. But I don't promise anything.
 
westfalia

westfalia

Top Poster
Messages
2,753
Location
Germany.
Vehicle
T5 SE 174
I still have the replaced left ram laying around.
I might try to change the right ram to see what it does then.
As I have a lot of spare time now, it isn't impossible to try to figure things out.
I'll keep you boys and girls updated. But I don't promise anything.
The right and left rams are the same are they not,
can you not get the spare one re-conditioned instead
of getting another ram.
Or is that you had in mind anyway.

That is definitely a wonky roof, i don't think that there is any danger
of the roof twisting, as the rear hinges are kind of free running.
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
1,689
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
The rams are interchangeable (?), but the newer ram I got from Poland without the VW sticker on it, so I don't know if that Polish ram is certainly genuine. Doesn't really matter if the measurements are the same.
Funny thing is that before the pump change, everything worked more evenly, except from the left side always lowering faster than the right side.

The rams are not repairable as the outer parts are pressed together, instead of screwed into each other. This means either I have to reuse the old (in my opinion still good ram) or on the left side again, or on the right side.
As I have seen some crystalisation on the right ram (yellow? instead of pink, like the hydraulic fluid), there might be a starting problem on the right ram?
In worst case, I have to buy at least 1 new ram for the right side, or 2 new ones as the replaced ram is already 3 years old now, and maybe has been suffering from the defective pump?

Only the squeeling sound right before the roof levels itself is not nice to hear, but maybe a little lubrification on the sliders at the front might help?

Hmm, a lot of question marks, but as it is all the first time I am trying to find those things out, ther might be no wonder.

Pff, a lot of work to do, but a lot of time to do it too.
 
westfalia

westfalia

Top Poster
Messages
2,753
Location
Germany.
Vehicle
T5 SE 174
Funny thing is that before the pump change, everything worked more evenly, except from the left side always lowering faster than the right side.
Could it be an oil issue - as in not all of the air is out
of the system or not enough oil.
You could send that ram that you have off to get checked
couldn't you, there's loads of hydraulic places that could easily
check it out.
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
1,689
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
After too many times rising and lowering the roof, even making the pump stop working due to overheating, the oil level was still ok. So that should not be the problem.

I don't think now is a good time to find hydraulic places to check it out :rolleyes:.

I'll keep you updated once I go further with the problem, but let's stick to the OP instead of worrying too much about me.
 
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