Leisure Battery gauge stuck at 100%

[Bart7974]

the last picture is from a swiss member with a GC 680

 

[far.landscape]

just to verify you measure on the "right" battery:
Your battery picture looks as if it is the motor battery, I can not see the high amp fuses.

You are now connected to the grid and charging, what does your display show ? still 100% , frozen ?
View attachment 82650

I measured the battery under the bonnet on my GC600, not the one under the floor. I was led to believe that is the leisure battery.

I sent a photo of just the negative terminal.

I haven’t measured (or looked at) the one under the floor. What I can say though is that the car starts like a whip crack, and the voltage of the battery under the bonnet changes in direct correlation with events related to the leisure system, eg engine charging, hook up charging, fridge activation, etc.

 

[far.landscape]

just to verify you measure on the "right" battery:
Your battery picture looks as if it is the motor battery, I can not see the high amp fuses.

You are now connected to the grid and charging, what does your display show ? still 100% , frozen ?
View attachment 82650

[the photo you sent] is a photo of the cover lifted on the positive terminal of the leisure battery under the bonnet.

When I was attached to hookup, still the same issue with the battery display constantly showing 100%, but on regular measuring using a multimeter I could see the voltage rise at the rate of 0.1v per 10 minutes

 

[yossarian]

1: getting hold of a new one with the same specs,

I'd go for something like this (I'm a bit of a yuasa fanboy) https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteri...E_d5wtdvZ35NT30G19ZLuAL4t9umRntxoCR3YQAvD_BwE

Ideally you want all your batteries on a split charge system to be the same brand, chemistry, age capacity etc. Since that is not achievable without throwing away your starter battery I'd just go for a decent brand AGM that will fit.

2: the original problem, ie why the van voltage sensor isn’t working (which is either the cause or a symptom of the issue), ie how to stop the same thing just happening again even if I do find a new one.

If you can track down some diagrams / schematics please post them otherwise you're stuck with what ever your local VW commercial service centre says.

It might worthwhile to check the output of the solar charge controller now that you have a multimeter. If float voltage too high it might have damaged the battery.

 

[far.landscape]

and here the 2 batteries:

View attachment 82652

Pretty sure that the photo you just sent is a photo of one battery, the leisure battery under the bonnet.

 

[Bart7974]

and the voltage of the battery under the bonnet changes in direct correlation with events related to the leisure system, eg engine charging, hook up charging, fridge activation, etc

o.k that is what you wrote already , I was a little confused of your picture.
So for your measurements you have the "camper" battery

But what can you see now on the display while charging ? is it still "frozen" ?

 

[splitmike]

The battery gauge on our Grand California (the one on the panel stuck outside the bathroom) is constantly stuck at 100%, permanently showing 0 amp draw regardless of actual draw and 0hrs and minutes remaining, and constantly showing a “charging” status if on hook up (ie it still shows “charging” even having been on hook up for >2 days).

just reading your first comment. if the van is plugged in surely it will say that its charging and also show 100% with no draw as its using the battery charger.

Just a thought

 

[far.landscape]

I'd go for something like this (I'm a bit of a yuasa fanboy) https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteri...E_d5wtdvZ35NT30G19ZLuAL4t9umRntxoCR3YQAvD_BwE

Ideally you want all your batteries on a split charge system to be the same brand, chemistry, age capacity etc. Since that is not achievable without throwing away your starter battery I'd just go for a decent brand AGM that will fit.


If you can track down some diagrams / schematics please post them otherwise you're stuck with what ever your local VW commercial service centre says.

It might worthwhile to check the output of the solar charge controller now that you have a multimeter. If float voltage too high it might have damaged the battery.

Yossarian you’ve been so helpful, thank you!!

I measured the physical size of the battery earlier and got 348mm wide, 172mm deep, 189mm high, so that looks like an exact size swap. 850 A CCA looks an exact match too. Thank you, because I was struggling to find a match.

I’m up for changing both batteries at the same time, but just a bit concerned that the battery will just fry again if whatever is wrong with the battery management system isn’t fixed at the same time.

I did measure the solar earlier. In bright but overcast conditions I got between 17.0 and 18.2v, constantly fluctuation as I guess you’d expect.

 

[far.landscape]

The battery gauge on our Grand California (the one on the panel stuck outside the bathroom) is constantly stuck at 100%, permanently showing 0 amp draw regardless of actual draw and 0hrs and minutes remaining, and constantly showing a “charging” status if on hook up (ie it still shows “charging” even having been on hook up for >2 days).

just reading your first comment. if the van is plugged in surely it will say that its charging and also show 100% with no draw as its using the battery charger.

Just a thought

Thanks for that thought. Apologies if I wasn’t clearer - it says “100%” all the time, even when the leisure battery is reading ~10v using the multimeter.

 

[yossarian]

I did measure the solar earlier. In bright but overcast conditions I got between 17.0 and 18.2v, constantly fluctuation as I guess you’d expect.

Hopefully that's the PV input to the charge controller. If possible try get the output of the charge controller with your battery fully charged? It should read around 13.7 V

Don't forget you get some discount from Tanya as a club member!

 

[far.landscape]

Hopefully that's the PV input to the charge controller. If possible try get the output of the charge controller with your battery fully charged? It should read around 13.7 V

Don't forget you get some discount from Tanya as a club member!

Apologies, I measured the terminals shown in the attached photo, looped.

I’m not familiar with this solar regulator and haven’t checked the manual yet (which didn’t come with the van, so am yet to Google it).

should I have measured something else?

 

[yossarian]

Apologies, I measured the terminals shown in the attached photo, looped.

I’m not familiar with this solar regulator and haven’t checked the manual yet (which didn’t come with the van, so am yet to Google it).

should I have measured something else?

View attachment 82656

Here's the manual: https://www.votronic.de/images/Manuals/07. Solar Current Technology/1710_1715_1720_1725_e.pdf

On pg 8 is the battery type selection. I can't see your switches but I'd expect to see down - down - up -down for AGM1 or possibly down - down - down - up. You can read the warnings there about how the solar controller will toast your battery if incorrectly configured.

Once the >80% LED lights you should see the highest voltage (14.4 V in AGM1) on the screw terminals 3 and 4.

Once the Bat full LED lights up you should see the trickle charge voltage (13.45 in AGM1)

The voltages will decrease slightly at higher ambient temperatures. See pg 10.

It's worth checking these voltages as a sanity check on the solar controller. Some modes of failure will destroy a battery rather quickly.

 

[far.landscape]

Here's the manual: https://www.votronic.de/images/Manuals/07. Solar Current Technology/1710_1715_1720_1725_e.pdf

On pg 8 is the battery type selection. I can't see your switches but I'd expect to see down - down - up -down for AGM1 or possibly down - down - down - up. You can read the warnings there about how the solar controller will toast your battery if incorrectly configured.

Once the >80% LED lights you should see the highest voltage (14.4 V in AGM1) on the screw terminals 3 and 4.

Once the Bat full LED lights up you should see the trickle charge voltage (13.45 in AGM1)

The voltages will decrease slightly at higher ambient temperatures. See pg 10.

It's worth checking these voltages as a sanity check on the solar controller. Some modes of failure will destroy a battery rather quickly.

Thanks again!!

Will check those voltages tomorrow - we are back on the grid then and will get longer on a hook up.

my switches are down, down, up, down, so agm 1.

 

[far.landscape]

I'd go for something like this (I'm a bit of a yuasa fanboy) https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteri...E_d5wtdvZ35NT30G19ZLuAL4t9umRntxoCR3YQAvD_BwE

Ideally you want all your batteries on a split charge system to be the same brand, chemistry, age capacity etc. Since that is not achievable without throwing away your starter battery I'd just go for a decent brand AGM that will fit.


If you can track down some diagrams / schematics please post them otherwise you're stuck with what ever your local VW commercial service centre says.

It might worthwhile to check the output of the solar charge controller now that you have a multimeter. If float voltage too high it might have damaged the battery.

Thanks again for all help.

This morning the battery is totally dead (had turned the systems off overnight but it’s obviously toast).

The highest CCA AGM I can get here on Lewis has 750 CCA (EN) and 75ah. This is compared to 850 and 92 for the battery currently on the vehicle. Obviously right now it’s not outputting anything though… so looking for any kind of fix to get us back on the road with any level of systems functioning… (bit difficult to be completely without systems with a family on board)

Can you (or anyone) think of any risk / downside of installing a lower rated CCA battery when used as a leisure battery, other than potentially simply not being able to start some systems? I’m guessing the standard fitted one is rated as 850 due to the startup requirements of the truma, particularly the air heater… even if we “lost” hot water and air heating, that would be better than no water pump and no fridge, as is the case at the moment?

Failing that I’ll have to order one to collect on the mainland.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks again for all help.

This morning the battery is totally dead (had turned the systems off overnight but it’s obviously toast).

The highest CCA AGM I can get here on Lewis has 750 CCA (EN) and 75ah. This is compared to 850 and 92 for the battery currently on the vehicle. Obviously right now it’s not outputting anything though… so looking for any kind of fix to get us back on the road with any level of systems functioning… (bit difficult to be completely without systems with a family on board)

Can you (or anyone) think of any risk / downside of installing a lower rated CCA battery when used as a leisure battery, other than potentially simply not being able to start some systems? I’m guessing the standard fitted one is rated as 850 due to the startup requirements of the truma, particularly the air heater… even if we “lost” hot water and air heating, that would be better than no water pump and no fridge, as is the case at the moment?

Failing that I’ll have to order one to collect on the mainland.

If you are still in warranty have you phoned VW Assistance?
Unlike most motor homes, VW cover the whole vehicle including habitation.

 

[far.landscape]

If you are still in warranty have you phoned VW Assistance?
Unlike most motor homes, VW cover the whole vehicle including habitation.

Thanks for the tip. Just called them, and they said that I had to take to a dealer and roadside assistance only covers Emergency.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks for the tip. Just called them, and they said that I had to take to a dealer and roadside assistance only covers Emergency.

Worth a try and I can see their point.
The problem is, just changing the Leisure Battery without sorting out the charging problem is liable to just damage the new battery.
The battery you mentioned should be more than upto the task of running the leisure side of things.

 

[yossarian]

Can you (or anyone) think of any risk / downside of installing a lower rated CCA battery when used as a leisure battery, other than potentially simply not being able to start some systems?

CCA is the amps a battery will be able to provide for 30 seconds at -17C while dropping to no less than 7.2 V. Imo irrelevant to a deep cycle battery. But 92AH seems quite small for something like a GC and using more than half regularly will degrade the capacity quite quickly. A smaller battery will be a bit limiting. But if it gets you going for 100 quid it's probably worth it. Less than a night's accommodation somewhere.

 

[far.landscape]

Worth a try and I can see their point.
The problem is, just changing the Leisure Battery without sorting out the charging problem is liable to just damage the new battery.
The battery you mentioned should be more than upto the task of running the leisure side of things.

Yes I agree, that’s exactly what I’m concerned about too. However, my thinking at the moment is that it’s lasted 4 weeks like this so if it just gives us another week then at least we don’t have to cancel this holiday.

 

[yossarian]

Yes I agree, that’s exactly what I’m concerned about too. However, my thinking at the moment is that it’s lasted 4 weeks like this so if it just gives us another week then at least we don’t have to cancel this holiday.

Also you have three charging mechanisms and a multimeter. It's likely at least 2 will work properly and if one doesn't you'll be able to see that.

 

[far.landscape]

Also you have three charging mechanisms and a multimeter. It's likely at least 2 will work properly and if one doesn't you'll be able to see that.

I now have a new battery fitted (80ah, 800 CCA, “Platinum” brand).

So far, all systems work*, and voltage measured at the battery terminals is maintaining constant at 12.55 with fridge load, so a huge improvement.

*in fact, the water pump has cut out once, but otherwise ok, and the truma control panel reset itself while the hot water was on and I was changing the brightness level on that display.

A voltage bridge battery wasn’t used when replacing the leisure battery, so all leisure systems should have depowered completely (assuming the system doesn’t draw from the vehicle battery).

The control panel battery gauge still reads 100% & 12.7v, 0amp draw, ie no change. I did manage to speak to a technician at VW assistance who checked a wiring diagram and believes that the sensor / gauge are independent of the charging system, so thinks the chance of damage to the new battery is minimal.

I have to get it to a dealer to diagnose the sensor issue, but otherwise now crossing fingers and tentatively optimistic…

Thanks to everyone on this thread for the help this far. Have learnt a lot about the van on this trip and will post a few how-to’s & tips in due course.

In the process, by chance I noticed the jack and wheel wrench was missing (!?!) so while I was in Stornaway getting the battery I picked up those parts too.

 

[yossarian]

Enjoy your holiday!

 

[Topsy]

I don't believe the GC comes with a Jack and Wheel wrench in the UK. As there is no spare wheel I assumed there would be no jack or wheel wrench. There is a pump and temporary repair kit supplied instead of a spare wheel.

 

[Jester]

I don't believe the GC comes with a Jack and Wheel wrench in the UK. As there is no spare wheel I assumed there would be no jack or wheel wrench. There is a pump and temporary repair kit supplied instead of a spare wheel.

Correct, although I had one fitted and the Jack and associated tools are located in the passenger footwell locker.

 

[Jester]

I now have a new battery fitted (80ah, 800 CCA, “Platinum” brand).

So far, all systems work*, and voltage measured at the battery terminals is maintaining constant at 12.55 with fridge load, so a huge improvement.

*in fact, the water pump has cut out once, but otherwise ok, and the truma control panel reset itself while the hot water was on and I was changing the brightness level on that display.

A voltage bridge battery wasn’t used when replacing the leisure battery, so all leisure systems should have depowered completely (assuming the system doesn’t draw from the vehicle battery).

The control panel battery gauge still reads 100% & 12.7v, 0amp draw, ie no change. I did manage to speak to a technician at VW assistance who checked a wiring diagram and believes that the sensor / gauge are independent of the charging system, so thinks the chance of damage to the new battery is minimal.

I have to get it to a dealer to diagnose the sensor issue, but otherwise now crossing fingers and tentatively optimistic…

Thanks to everyone on this thread for the help this far. Have learnt a lot about the van on this trip and will post a few how-to’s & tips in due course.

In the process, by chance I noticed the jack and wheel wrench was missing (!?!) so while I was in Stornaway getting the battery I picked up those parts too.

View attachment 82671

Well done.

Spare wheel and tools not standard, but can be fitted.