Oil Comsumption / Engine Problems with 2010/2011 Cali's

[WelshGas]

Unfortunately VWUK are no longer willing to contribute the the cost of the replacement engine.
A number of folk with this issue in the UK have been refused now.

BernrdRos was the last person to get his Cali partly paid for by VWUK, as far as I am aware.

My van is still drinking oil like a fish.

Alan

However, our Norwegian Forum member has now provided proof that VW are aware of the problem and even have official VW documentation . Personally it might be worth taking legal advice.

 

[Spartan]

I think there must be a bit more information contained in the Norwegian bulletin (shown in the images above) that we can't see - perhaps because the pictures have been cropped?

Aluminium Hydroxide - Al(OH)3 - is that pale, 'fluffy', powder coating you often see on aluminium parts that have been exposed to the elements - it's just the natural environmental oxidisation of aluminium (you could call it corrosion or rust if you like). Although, it doesn't look very nice, it's 'useful' in that it makes the aluminium practically inert. Importantly, in this context, it's also very soft and non abrasive - around 2.5-3.0 on Mohs scale of hardness and, therefore, unlikely to be the cause of any significant engine damage/wear.

However, if the bulletin is suggesting that the Aluminium Hydroxide is getting converted to Aluminium Oxide (Al2O3) - possibly in the high temperature/pressure environment of a combustion chamber - then we have a potential candidate for the cause of engine damage/wear: Aluminium Oxide is also known as Corundum and scores 9 on Mohs hardness scale (Diamond is top with a score of 10) and, for that reason, it is commonly used as an abrasive (for example in the gritty coating of 'sandpaper').

P.S. Is it too late to get the spelling mistake corrected in the title of this thread? Might help people using search function.

 

[2into1]

Aluminium Hydroxide - Al(OH)3 - is that pale, 'fluffy', powder coating you often see on aluminium parts

Couldn't let this mention go without an ironic reference to the Cali roof problem!

 

[AlanC]

That's just terrible. From memory mine was using about a litre of oil every 350 miles, you will recall I had to get really pushy with VWCS in order to get the the new engine etc.

Have done about 5000 miles on new engine and not a drop of oil needed.

Getting pushy didn't work for me. I even quoted yourself and Ivor, as those vans of the same age as mine, were repaired only a few weeks before I got onto VWCS. Still no.

The Service Manager at Breeze Poole was sympathetic and helpful and together with the Area Service Manager still couldn't help. When they pursued it, they were told by Customer Services that they were very sympathetic, but their hands were tied by folk higher up the pecking order.

I have lost heart and not progressed this issue for the time being.
Others on the Facebook page have also found VWUK to be very unhelpful, although other countries are still sorting out the issue, hence the Norwegian material. BTW, this material was cropped to preserve the anonymity of the suppler.

One owner whose Caravel developed the fault while she was in France, was told by the French VW dealer that VW would replace the engine as it was a known fault. When asked if they could get it done while she was over there, she was told they couldn't do it as the van was a UK speced one and had to be repaired by the UK importers.

Which every way you turn you come up against our immovable force of the UK VW Importers.

Alan

 

[LarsLarsen]

Hey Frystyk,
Your screenshot made it back into a T5 Forum in Germany and I would like to get some more information about where the screenshots came from. I would like to understand whether that is a translated document as well as whether VW service partners like mine near Berlin are able to access that. I guess this cannot be found in the normal Service documents like through Erwin. I looked at that with a 1h paid access.
Background: I got a replacement engine in 9/2015 and the old EGR version C. I have now more than 13.000 miles with that new engine and think the corrosion might had already started. I believe that because my EGR incl. the cooler was exchanged mid way of the 54.000 miles till engine death so each cooler might run for about 25.000 miles and must have dispensed AlOH already in that time.
Now I feel I had been decieved by VW. At least they should have notified customers on replacing the EGR cooler.

Any more evidence or hint whete to find that would be great.
Thanks & Best Regards,
Lars

 

[AlanC]

This document was posted on the Facebook group by another British T5 owner who lives in Norway.

VW T5.1 excessive oil use for CFCA engines.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/122196238114704/

Hope that helps.

Alan

 

[LarsLarsen]

Many thank I continued there with following up on the bulletin.

 

[fyrstyk]

Many thank I continued there with following up on the bulletin.

Hi Lars

I'm the source of the screenshots.

Have tried to join the TX forum but can't.

Feel free to message me directly on Facebook.

Glen

 

[2into1]

Photos of the 15 page VW TPI with lots of info have been uploaded into the facebook group https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157816678940298&set=pcb.372074839793508&type=3&theater

I'd suggest you copy them to your hard drive if you think you are impacted by the problem, in case they get taken down. It's a second major leak showing that VW are fully aware of the issue.

 

[BerndRos]

Any chance of having it loaded on here for those of us not on FB ?

 

[2into1]

Any chance of having it loaded on here for those of us not on FB ?

Give me 10 mins

 

[BerndRos]

Give me 10 mins

Thanks, that would be great.

 

[2into1]

First 10 pages here. Note the date = 29 Oct 16
. Last 2 to follow in next post (site limit).

 

[2into1]

Pages 11 and 12 of the TPI

 

[calicasas]

What manufacturing fault are you referring to with the 2010/2011 models?

Mine is a 2010, and it was confirmed that the oil consumption was too high, and it was repaired by VW. I've not heard of any other root cause for the oil consumption on the CFCA other than the EGR cooler corrosion.

I have been reliably informed that VW-UK are now starting to convert these engines from a long life service interval to a time or distance service regime as they believe that this may also be a contributing factor and/or to help mitigate risk of engine wear. If I were a suspicious person, I may think that VW in the UK are either trying to deflect attention from the problem, slow it down (kick it in to the long grass) or they simply don't know about this 'known issue' ...

 

[LarsLarsen]

Hi All,
I got my oil check results from my replacement engine with the cooler version c.
After 20tkm I have a warning with high aluminum(243mg/kg) and iron(190mg/kg). Results include a diagnoses that this is wear from the engine cylinder.
Absolutly upset with VW as the engine was replaced about 2 month before the new version D cam out. A recall might have saved the engine but now it alrady damaged and others in Germany might not get the Aluminum out of the system.
I will post the details in the German TX forum which does start to write some comments in English.
Hope you have a better weekend than I ...
Lars

 

[BerndRos]

Hi All,
I got my oil check results from my replacement engine with the cooler version c.
After 20tkm I have a warning with high aluminum(243mg/kg) and iron(190mg/kg). Results include a diagnoses that this is wear from the engine cylinder.
Absolutly upset with VW as the engine was replaced about 2 month before the new version D cam out. A recall might have saved the engine but now it alrady damaged and others in Germany might not get the Aluminum out of the system.
I will post the details in the German TX forum which does start to write some comments in English.
Hope you have a better weekend than I ...
Lars

Confused....are you saying that you have already had a new replacement engine fitted ?

If so when ?

Was it just the lower part, the block without the head OR the complete engine that they then fitted your existing parts back onto to ?

I had my new engine fitted last winter, and it was the whole base engine including block & head.

Thanks

 

[LarsLarsen]

I had the base engine replaced as described in the TPI incl. DFP and Lamda sensor. Sadly the EGR cooler Version D was released just few weeks later which per Screenshots from Norvey should prevent the Al dispense. I'd like to see some Oelcheck results from such an engine with a version D after 10-20tkm.
Check your new EGR cooler version just little right to the oil filter.
Part number 03L.115.512. - then comes the version for newer cooler.

 

[BerndRos]

I had the base engine replaced as described in the TPI incl. DFP and Lamda sensor. Sadly the EGR cooler Version D was released just few weeks later which per Screenshots from Norvey should prevent the Al dispense. I'd like to see some Oelcheck results from such an engine with a version D after 10-20tkm.
Check your new EGR cooler version just little right to the oil filter.
Part number 03L.115.512. - then comes the version for newer cooler.

Thanks, Lars.

I will check tomorrow to see if I can see if mine is a C or a D.

What % of your replacement engine was paid for by VW and you ?....in my case it was VW 70% and ME 30%.

I have now read all the recent posts on here, are you saying that as the EGR 'C' was being fitted to ALL engines up to late 2015, that up to that time ALL the engines may be affected, not just the engines from 2010/11 ?

Thanks

 

[LarsLarsen]

Thanks, Lars.

I will check tomorrow to see if I can see if mine is a C or a D.

What % of your replacement engine was paid for by VW and you ?....in my case it was VW 70% and ME 30%.

I have now read all the recent posts on here, are you saying that as the EGR 'C' was being fitted to ALL engines up to late 2015, that up to that time ALL the engines may be affected, not just the engines from 2010/11 ?

Thanks

I had bought an used BiTdi and they had to replace the engine for free due to the law in Germany. The engine was already defect when I bought it. The screenshots from Norwey do state that the issue is until version D of the EGR cooler which means all BiTdi engines until then. I guess my Oil analysis proofs that version C does release Al into the Oil and my high Fe values show wear from the cylinder as stated by the Oilcheck company.

 

[BerndRos]

Lars,

I seem to recall that VW, UK dealer said that the new engine I had has a 2 year warranty, is that the same in Germany because if so can't you claim a remedy for your latest problem under that warranty ?

Seems that other owners of the 180biturbo need to take this seriously, as up to now it was assumed that VW fixed the issue during 2011.

 

[BerndRos]

I had the base engine replaced as described in the TPI incl. DFP and Lamda sensor. Sadly the EGR cooler Version D was released just few weeks later which per Screenshots from Norvey should prevent the Al dispense. I'd like to see some Oelcheck results from such an engine with a version D after 10-20tkm.
Check your new EGR cooler version just little right to the oil filter.
Part number 03L.115.512. - then comes the version for newer cooler.

I have just checked the EGR on the new engine which I had fitted in January 2016. It's....03L 115.512 D.....

Lars, I guess this means I am OK ?

However, from what has now been revealed, and if VW were still fitting version 'C' of the EGR until late 2015, it would appear that VW did not rectify the issues with the 180 engine in 2011 as was previously thought.

 

[BerndRos]

Further to recent posts regarding this matter, I have looked out my paperwork and can provide the following regarding my engine issues and its replacement. Hopefully this will help other owners with either the same issues, or if they suspect they may encounter issues in the future.

My 180biturbo was registered on 1st March 2010, engine number was CFCA 004478, I do not know what version of EGR it originally had fitted.

My first EGR failed at approx 20000 miles in 2011, I do not know what version of EGR was fitted.

At just under 50000 miles I encountered severe oil consumption issues. VW paid 70% and I paid 30% of the replacement engine etc, works carried out in January 2016. Engine is model 03L 100 092 AX & EGR 03L.115.512.D, which matches the info on the screenshots posted above on 30th October by fyrstyk. I therefore have the latest and correct replacements. These are in accordance with the TPI dated 29th October 2016, variant 3.1, screenshots appear above posted on 29th November by T4WFA.

Regarding the posts by LarsLarsen, his replacement engine fitted in late 2015 came with EGR version 03L.115.512.C, which clearly from the screen shots above is a faulty part. Clearly VW should have recalled his van when version 'D' came out a few weeks after his engine replacement. Somehow they did not. It would seem that the version 'C' EGR was still being fitted in late 2015. I think it wise that all Cali owners with this engine should check what version of EGR they have, there is a plate just to the right of the oil filter which shows this. If you have version 'C' then potentially you are in trouble.

What I do NOT understand is why the latest TPI is dated as late as 29th October 2016, and only has model year 2010 in the top left hand corner of page 1. Also at the bottom of page 10 there is reference to 'T6', I believe that some early T6 vans also had these engines. All very confusing.

Hope all this helps.

 

[LarsLarsen]

I suggest still to perform an Oil Check with the new version D just in case.
New T6 engines or a less horespower T5 engine doe have values below 1 for Al mg/kg per 1000km. The average Al in CFCA engines is above 10mg/kg per 1000km. My results from last week are 243mg/kg Al at 20000km use of the oil which is 12,15mg/kg per 1000km.
The current table with all samples of the oilcheck can be found here:
https://tx-board.de/threads/hoher-oelverbrauch-t5-multivan-132kw.92516/page-203#post-1211807

But maybe the stated values help to compare own results.
We all ordered a simple oilcheck from: https://www.oelcheck.de/en/home.html

 

[BerndRos]

I suggest still to perform an Oil Check with the new version D just in case.
New T6 engines or a less horespower T5 engine doe have values below 1 for Al mg/kg per 1000km. The average Al in CFCA engines is above 10mg/kg per 1000km. My results from last week are 243mg/kg Al at 20000km use of the oil which is 12,15mg/kg per 1000km.
The current table with all samples of the oilcheck can be found here:
https://tx-board.de/threads/hoher-oelverbrauch-t5-multivan-132kw.92516/page-203#post-1211807

But maybe the stated values help to compare own results.
We all ordered a simple oilcheck from: https://www.oelcheck.de/en/home.html

All very interesting.

Lars, what prompted you to have the oil check on your new engine ?

And, what is your present oil consumption like ?

Thanks.