Oil Comsumption / Engine Problems with 2010/2011 Cali's

[Borris]

One could say that the 140 engine has the power of a milk float and the Beach is just a van with a pop top.

Oh but what a van!

A van that you can use as a van.
A van that can carry up to seven people and their luggage.
A van that you can cook in.
A van that you can eat in.
A van that you can sleep in......in a HUGE bed!
A van that you can tour in.
A van you can party in.
A van that isn't compromised by a kitchen that many people don't use.
A van that doesn't have problems with tanks, gauges, pumps, pipework or taps.
A van that doesn't require the gas system to be checked regularly.
A van that doesn't have fragile fittings that break.
A van that doesn't have roof electrics, hydraulics, or control panels to go wrong.
A van that doesn't have a built in fridge taking up space when not being used.
A van that doesn't melt washing up bowls.
A van that doesn't require stripping down to fix some fridge related issues.
A van with no facility to carry 30litres of dirty washing up water.
A van that has so much space that you could play naked twister if it pleases you.
A van that will still pass the 180 engined SEs whilst they're filling up with oil.

 

[Max-Felix]

Just thought though, no seats in the tailgate or table in the door

This topic has gone waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy OT now but...

...it can be sorted now thanks to these people!

 

[Borris]

I seem to recall the Caravelle seats can be folded flat to form a bed, are they a different arrangement than those in one of the Beach variants? If you put an elevating roof in a Caravelle, would that make it a Beach alternative?

Just thought though, no seats in the tailgate or table in the door

Yes it would. I did look at the Caravelle and fully intended to buy one. However I was wooed by a gorgeous SE 4 motion ex demonstrator.

The advantages of the Caravelle with the bed pack are:
1. You can have a LWB version. So much more roomy.
2. You can have a full leather interior which isn't available on the Beach. Much more practical in a leisure vehicle.
3. The three seat bench and swivel captains seats are the same as on the Beach.
4 From memory the Bed Pack includes window blinds, Multiflex board and VW Comfort mattress.
5. You get two sliding doors.

Disadvantages:
1. In order to fit a pop top roof the air conditionind trunking and outlets as well as the over head lighting bars etc need to be removed and redesigned. I have seen it done but the end result wasn't pretty.

As for the picnic table and chairs, if you wanted them they could be added by swopping the door cards for SE/Ocean/Beach ones.

 

[WelshGas]

Oh but what a van!

A van that you can use as a van.
A van that can carry up to seven people and their luggage.
A van that you can cook in.
A van that you can eat in.
A van that you can sleep in......in a HUGE bed!
A van that you can tour in.
A van you can party in.
A van that isn't compromised by a kitchen that many people don't use.
A van that doesn't have problems with tanks, gauges, pumps, pipework or taps.
A van that doesn't require the gas system to be checked regularly.
A van that doesn't have fragile fittings that break.
A van that doesn't have roof electrics, hydraulics, or control panels to go wrong.
A van that doesn't have a built in fridge taking up space when not being used.
A van that doesn't melt washing up bowls.
A van that doesn't require stripping down to fix some fridge related issues.
A van with no facility to carry 30litres of dirty washing up water.
A van that has so much space that you could play naked twister if it pleases you.
A van that will still pass the 180 engined SEs whilst they're filling up with oil.

Yes, some people seem to need the huge bed.
Yes, a van that in the depths of winter is just that, a van.
And as far as the 180s are concerned, we'll pass you on the hills as you struggle with ALL the extras you have to take with you to turn it into a faux camper van.

 

[AlanC]

I should now add that the new engine with a 'D' cooler was fitted in Dec 2016 and is now coming up to 2 years old. It has been perfect over the last 10k miles and is not using any oil at all. I did spend time running it in, old fashioned I know, but was the way I was taught by my father.

So I think VW Germany have sorted the problem. I only wish VWUK had been more responsive and generous about this issue.

Alan

 

[sidepod]

Forum law #1

"All threads, no matter what subject or number of contributors will, eventually, become Beach vs Ocean".

 

[Borris]

Yes, some people seem to need the huge bed.
Yes, a van that in the depths of winter is just that, a van.
And as far as the 180s are concerned, we'll pass you on the hills as you struggle with ALL the extras you have to take with you to turn it into a faux camper van.

And some people seem to need to sleep on a single bed in their kitchen just like they do at home!

Actually joking aside, having had both versions they are both fine if you can ignore the granite mattress.

"a van that in the depths of winter is just that, a van". An SE in the depths of winter is also just a van but with less space!

You've got me on the last one WG. If Mrs Borris decides to take much more stuff we'll have to avoid hills altogether.

 

[Borris]

Forum law #1

"All threads, no matter what subject or number of contributors will, eventually, become Beach vs Ocean".

..........and long may it continue!

 

[SimonVW]

Oh but what a van!
A van that has so much space that you could play naked twister if it pleases you.

Decision made - I'll look for a Beach!

 

[larrylamb]

Let's just say I love my sunglasses holder

 

[WelshGas]

And some people seem to need to sleep on a single bed in their kitchen just like they do at home!

Actually joking aside, having had both versions they are both fine if you can ignore the granite mattress.

"a van that in the depths of winter is just that, a van". An SE in the depths of winter is also just a van but with less space!

You've got me on the last one WG. If Mrs Borris decides to take much more stuff we'll have to avoid hills altogether.

I think you should reread my Post 449, where I was pointing out that those who tarred ALL 180s the same, as having an oil consumption problem are wrong and being disingenuous to those owners who have not had this problem and probably never will. No different to saying all 150s are underpowered and need a remap or all Beach’s are just a Van.
With full knowledge of possible problems and a vehicle that has been properly serviced and at a price that was acceptable I would be more than happy to purchase and replace the engine and ancillary equipment as @AlanC has done.

 

[WelshGas]

And some people seem to need to sleep on a single bed in their kitchen just like they do at home!

Actually joking aside, having had both versions they are both fine if you can ignore the granite mattress.

"a van that in the depths of winter is just that, a van". An SE in the depths of winter is also just a van but with less space!

You've got me on the last one WG. If Mrs Borris decides to take much more stuff we'll have to avoid hills altogether.

I suggest a visit to Specsavers and reread my Post 449.

 

[Borris]

I think you should reread my Post 449, where I was pointing out that those who tarred ALL 180s the same, as having an oil consumption problem are wrong and being disingenuous to those owners who have not had this problem and probably never will. No different to saying all 150s are underpowered and need a remap or all Beach’s are just a Van.
With full knowledge of possible problems and a vehicle that has been properly serviced and at a price that was acceptable I would be more than happy to purchase and replace the engine and ancillary equipment as @AlanC has done.

Actually I completely agree with your post 449. I've also owned an SE 180dsg 4motion. Splendid vehicle. If it wasn't for Mrs Borris's refusal to drive our family Beach which was purchased as a second car, we'd still have it now. In the end I had to buy her another car and the SE ended up not getting used as much as we had intended so it had to go.

Forgive me for deliberately misinterpreting your post purely for amusement. We haven't had the old Beach verses Ocean thing for a while and I couldn't resist the opportunity.

 

[Rubberdubber]

Oh happy day, so i have a CFCA 180 BiTdi, 2014 model. Just found all this stuff but at 12,000 miles I have no issues at all as yet. I am due a service so plan to speak to my VW Dealer and see what they say but I have no symptoms, sop no real complaint, so I doubt they will do anything straight away. The trouble is I don't want to wait and see either because it's really too late by then. My EGR is a suffix "C" so in the range but maybe better than some. I wondered bout getting the oil analysed before the service? any advice or suggestions welcome

 

[WelshGas]

Oh happy day, so i have a CFCA 180 BiTdi, 2014 model. Just found all this stuff but at 12,000 miles I have no issues at all as yet. I am due a service so plan to speak to my VW Dealer and see what they say but I have no symptoms, sop no real complaint, so I doubt they will do anything straight away. The trouble is I don't want to wait and see either because it's really too late by then. My EGR is a suffix "C" so in the range but maybe better than some. I wondered bout getting the oil analysed before the service? any advice or suggestions welcome

I too have the same engine. Just passing 80,000 miles. Oil consumption has been 1L in first year over 20,000 miles, 750 mls in year 2, 20,000 to 40,000 miles, and then 500 mls/ 20,000 miles / year for the last 2 years.
At the rate you are clocking up the miles you have another 16 years to get to the same milage.

 

[2into1]

Oh happy day, so i have a CFCA 180 BiTdi, 2014 model. Just found all this stuff but at 12,000 miles I have no issues at all as yet. I am due a service so plan to speak to my VW Dealer and see what they say but I have no symptoms, sop no real complaint, so I doubt they will do anything straight away. The trouble is I don't want to wait and see either because it's really too late by then. My EGR is a suffix "C" so in the range but maybe better than some. I wondered bout getting the oil analysed before the service? any advice or suggestions welcome

Interesting dilemma.
My advice would be to change the egr valve to a D. Two reasons (or three) :
1) you'll add a big chuck of the cost to the resale value of the van. You'll be able to claim correctly that its had the /d since 12k miles.
2) any egr doesn't last forever. Although their failure is more mileage related than age related, your /c isn't new so it's wear to date can be offset (in your mind) against the cost of a new one.
The two above are facts and even shouldn't upset WelshGas.
3) fitting the /d might just save your engine and a £7k+ bill.

 

[AlanC]

Oh happy day, so i have a CFCA 180 BiTdi, 2014 model. Just found all this stuff but at 12,000 miles I have no issues at all as yet. I am due a service so plan to speak to my VW Dealer and see what they say but I have no symptoms, sop no real complaint, so I doubt they will do anything straight away. The trouble is I don't want to wait and see either because it's really too late by then. My EGR is a suffix "C" so in the range but maybe better than some. I wondered bout getting the oil analysed before the service? any advice or suggestions welcome

As a sufferer of this problem, it usually kicks in at around 45-85K miles often very suddenly, at 12k miles you still have a way to go 'if' it is going to occur.

Having said that, the C suffix cooler is an updated one (now suffix D) but as @Vw guru has said in another thread, VW did not consider the issue finally fixed until 2015.

As there has been plenty of publicity about this issue, and given you have a 2014 engine and a very low annual mileage, I would just consider having the EGR Cooler changed to a D suffix one.
Will give you peace of mind if nothing else.

Alan

 

[WelshGas]

Interesting dilemma.
My advice would be to change the egr valve to a D. Two reasons (or three) :
1) you'll add a big chuck of the cost to the resale value of the van. You'll be able to claim correctly that its had the /d since 12k miles.
2) any egr doesn't last forever. Although their failure is more mileage related than age related, your /c isn't new so it's wear to date can be offset (in your mind) against the cost of a new one.
The two above are facts and even shouldn't upset WelshGas.
3) fitting the /d might just save your engine and a £7k+ bill.

Agree, alternatively use it more.
Most of those affected seem to be 2010/2011 and relatively low annual milage.

 

[Rubberdubber]

OK, thanks for the advice and I appreciate the reasoning behind it. It is due a service soon so I was thinking about talking to VW, see if they are willing to do anything, sounds unlikely but must be the first port of call. Other than that I was considering blanking the EGR and getting it coded out, I never really agreed with the things anyway and I have done this before with cars but I appreciate a lower mileage expensive van, resale value may be affected.

 

[WelshGas]

OK, thanks for the advice and I appreciate the reasoning behind it. It is due a service soon so I was thinking about talking to VW, see if they are willing to do anything, sounds unlikely but must be the first port of call. Other than that I was considering blanking the EGR and getting it coded out, I never really agreed with the things anyway and I have done this before with cars but I appreciate a lower mileage expensive van, resale value may be affected.

Also be aware that the new MOT has a significant focus on Emission levels and the equipment fitted to control such emissions.

 

[willwander]

Agree, alternatively use it more.
Most of those affected seem to be 2010/2011 and relatively low annual milage.

Agree. Most assume very low mileage vehicles are somehow better, not always the case.

 

[Rubberdubber]

Has anyone actually looked into what this part does and why it goes wrong?
To be a bit more specific; I notice VW refer to it as an 'EGR valve', no mention of cooler, yet it seems to be both. It's a much bigger part than most equivelant engine EGRs and the fact the oil filter screws on to it makes me wonder if it's also an oil cooler? If it is then are we 100% sure the metal particles are getting into the crankcase through the exhaust, could it be straight in to the oil system around the filter area? The other thing I wonder about is if metal fragments can come from the exhaust side of the cooler, why not the opposite side of the same surface, into the coolant?
Just trying to make sense of it all and imagining what the parts must look like, so forgive me if my lack of first hand knowledge has led me to bark up the wrong tree, stops me howling at the moon right enough, neighbours get terribly upset about that

 

[VW Guru]

Has anyone actually looked into what this part does and why it goes wrong?
To be a bit more specific; I notice VW refer to it as an 'EGR valve', no mention of cooler, yet it seems to be both. It's a much bigger part than most equivelant engine EGRs and the fact the oil filter screws on to it makes me wonder if it's also an oil cooler? If it is then are we 100% sure the metal particles are getting into the crankcase through the exhaust, could it be straight in to the oil system around the filter area? The other thing I wonder about is if metal fragments can come from the exhaust side of the cooler, why not the opposite side of the same surface, into the coolant?
Just trying to make sense of it all and imagining what the parts must look like, so forgive me if my lack of first hand knowledge has led me to bark up the wrong tree, stops me howling at the moon right enough, neighbours get terribly upset about that

Hi The unit on the 180 engine is an egr cooler, oil filter housing and oil cooler all in one. The egr valve bolts onto the side of the cooler unit. The fault lies with the aluminum being broken down to aluminum oxide inside the egr cooler due to a chemical reaction with the exhaust gas. It then gets sucked into the engine via the air intake and sticks to the cylinder bores and piston rings increasing cylinder ware leading to oil bypassing the piston and getting burnt in the cylinder. The later coolers 2015 on have a plastic coating inside the egr cooler preventing the chemical reaction

 

[Rubberdubber]

Hi, Thanks for that.
Do you know if the oil cooler is an addition for the 180 i.e not needed/fitted to lower hp engines? I have read of people fitting 140 EGRs but that seems to come with a need to add a separate oil cooler, usually with some kind of thermostatic control? Also, not sure I would trust the plastic coating, don't suppose we know yet how long or even if that will last, makes it a bit of a time bomb ans makes me think I would prefer a more complete repair.

 

[VW Guru]

Hi, Thanks for that.
Do you know if the oil cooler is an addition for the 180 i.e not needed/fitted to lower hp engines? I have read of people fitting 140 EGRs but that seems to come with a need to add a separate oil cooler, usually with some kind of thermostatic control? Also, not sure I would trust the plastic coating, don't suppose we know yet how long or even if that will last, makes it a bit of a time bomb ans makes me think I would prefer a more complete repair.

Hi that’s the vw fix I suppose it would be possible to fit a 140 egr unit and change all the pipe work but it would be interesting as there is not much room for it on the 180 due to the twin turbo unit. As for the oil cooler the external engine block is the same as the 140 so to fit a 140 oil filter housing would be ok just a pipe work change .There has been no issues with the end of line 180s since 2015 that I know of but we are only 3 years in. When I say plastic coating it’s a bit of a generalization the coating is a bit more complex than that so as far as I know it should solve the issue